Consenting to Sex

[Curvaceous Kate]

Are they any reliable Irish figures for numbers thought to be acting against their will? I've no doubt that some are, but would a figure of say 10% justify the criminalisation of the clients of the other 90%? Should the actions of organised criminals & traffickers not be primarily a case for the police?

Susann told me that over the last 5 years the 'women's Aid group' in Northern Ireland have helped 10 ladies out of prostitution. That's like 2 a year!

[Davidontour]

Susann told me that over the last 5 years the 'women's Aid group' in Northern Ireland have helped 10 ladies out of prostitution. That's like 2 a year!

That's a deeply unimpressive figure. Yet Mr Morrow is proposing to give this group thousands of pounds of public money to be equally idle in the future. Nice work if you can get it.

[Catriona]

Are they any reliable Irish figures for numbers thought to be acting against their will? I've no doubt that some are, but would a figure of say 10% justify the criminalisation of the clients of the other 90%? Should the actions of organised criminals & traffickers not be primarily a case for the police?

No research has been done and one case if memory serves me right, which the anti-trafficking unit dealt with last year only one was found to be sex trafficking, where one women trafficked another woman. It also depends on the definition of trafficking - I know Holland has one of the widest definitions of trafficking hence the high figures, but also why the most number trafficked are Dutch by nationality - trafficker is someone who "wilfully profits from the exploitation of another person". That could have been the boss in my last bar job in Germany where no minimum wage exists and I got paid 30€ for 8 hours of work.

[Davidontour]

you are indeed correct, two women in Belfast were found to have trafficked people into NI and were forcing them to work.
Consent to sex or withdrawal of consent beginngs long before I met anyone.
I refuse rude people often, I know a lot of other Escorts do too so there is indeed consent or withdrawal of consent.
Not every person wants full sex - now maybe if someone turned up and said "NO, thank you" I would develop a complex, but I often see the same person again.
Maybe a grey area as to sex or sexual contact.
If the work were legalised and proper establishments open we could have so much safe fun.
There are a few wonderful old buildings in Belfast which I often walk past and think what a wonderful place for a House of disrepute.
Should I ever win big on the lotto I would open a wonderful establishent of naughtyness.
If anyone is familar with the Westerns/cowboy films - think along those lines of scanty (un)dressed ladies and rich fabric furnishings.
It would never be closed down as too many judges, solicitors and politicans would have to go elsewhere for Thrills.

I'm thinking City Hall. Sure there's never anything going on in there anyway, apart from fighting. Would be nice to see some loving for a change.

[Catriona]

you are indeed correct, two women in Belfast were found to have trafficked people into NI and were forcing them to work.
Consent to sex or withdrawal of consent beginngs long before I met anyone.
I refuse rude people often, I know a lot of other Escorts do too so there is indeed consent or withdrawal of consent.
Not every person wants full sex - now maybe if someone turned up and said "NO, thank you" I would develop a complex, but I often see the same person again.
Maybe a grey area as to sex or sexual contact.
If the work were legalised and proper establishments open we could have so much safe fun.
There are a few wonderful old buildings in Belfast which I often walk past and think what a wonderful place for a House of disrepute.
Should I ever win big on the lotto I would open a wonderful establishent of naughtyness.
If anyone is familar with the Westerns/cowboy films - think along those lines of scanty (un)dressed ladies and rich fabric furnishings.
It would never be closed down as too many judges, solicitors and politicans would have to go elsewhere for Thrills.

I've worked in Germany and I think it's important to clarify the importance of having a decriminalisation model rather than a legalisation model. When New Zealand brought in decriminalisation, sex workers had a lot of say in how the laws should look. I have to admit I am nervous about large establishments and my experience of them aren't positive if they are run along hierarchically lines, hence why workers' right have gone to the forefront in New Zealand that even a sex worker was able to sue the brothel keeper for sexual harassment!

[Empirical]

I've worked in Germany and I think it's important to clarify the importance of having a decriminalisation model rather than a legalisation model. When New Zealand brought in decriminalisation, sex workers had a lot of say in how the laws should look. I have to admit I am nervous about large establishments and my experience of them aren't positive if they are run along hierarchically lines, hence why workers' right have gone to the forefront in New Zealand that even a sex worker was able to sue the brothel keeper for sexual harassment!

Decriminalization rather than legalisation is much more progressive; but I doubt if any of the politicians here in N Ireland would see it as such. But, then, they have belief and their need for evidence is tenuous at best. I've just been watching Drs Ellison and Husche at the local justice committee, and the level of contempt shown to them—and to Laura Lee and uglymugs.ie—is quite amazing. How is it possible to be quite so bigoted and not to realise just how offensive you are? You may not agree with my point of view, but you can still be civil about it. (And much of this was an ad hominem attack, rather than issues based.)

[Davidontour]

Decriminalization rather than legalisation is much more progressive; but I doubt if any of the politicians here in N Ireland would see it as such. But, then, they have belief and their need for evidence is tenuous at best. I've just been watching Drs Ellison and Husche at the local justice committee, and the level of contempt shown to them—and to Laura Lee and uglymugs.ie—is quite amazing. How is it possible to be quite so bigoted and not to realise just how offensive you are? You may not agree with my point of view, but you can still be civil about it. (And much of this was an ad hominem attack, rather than issues based.)

It's the kind of baffling hatred that judges ''homosexuals to be worse than paedophiles'' and yet such attitudes are not only allowed to stand but their representatives voted back in. Ireland north and south has huge hang-ups on all shades of sexual issues, yet is puzzlingly ambivalent towards violence and it's retrospective celebration. I'm sorry but I'll never understand this place.

[Curvaceous Kate]

I have to admit, that personally I would not work in a place with other ladies. For me it's about keeping things as normal as possible and I like inviting someone into my place and there being no other distractions. I think it's more relaxed and if I want to have a chat afterwards or ask the client to help me work my new printer for example, then I can, where as working in an establishment there would be a feeling of no privacy and working to time constraints and needing to work more while I'm there. No popping out to the shops for a break.

Having said that, I'm sure plenty would be fine with it. Just not me.

[rob_tig]

I have to admit, that personally I would not work in a place with other ladies. For me it's about keeping things as normal as possible and I like inviting someone into my place and there being no other distractions. I think it's more relaxed and if I want to have a chat afterwards or ask the client to help me work my new printer for example, then I can, where as working in an establishment there would be a feeling of no privacy and working to time constraints and needing to work more while I'm there. No popping out to the shops for a break.

Having said that, I'm sure plenty would be fine with it. Just not me.

Kate at the end of the day it's what makes you comfortable. Nothing wrong with that, infact I admire your independence. I would rather not visit where there's more than one lady.

Relaxed environment is what I prefer.

[Davidontour]

I have to admit, that personally I would not work in a place with other ladies. For me it's about keeping things as normal as possible and I like inviting someone into my place and there being no other distractions. I think it's more relaxed and if I want to have a chat afterwards or ask the client to help me work my new printer for example, then I can, where as working in an establishment there would be a feeling of no privacy and working to time constraints and needing to work more while I'm there. No popping out to the shops for a break.

Having said that, I'm sure plenty would be fine with it. Just not me.

As a client I don't think I would be attracted to such a clinical establishment. Visiting an escort is for me much more about the entire experience and not simply a sexual release.

Each to their own but I would prefer to pay more for an unrushed one to one experience than less for something cold and mechanical.