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Thread: Newspapers Exagerating Trafficking... really?

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    Post Newspapers Exagerating Trafficking... really?

    Article on the Guardian

    I know you will be shocked to read this. Of course, it wouldn't happen in Ireland

    The Glory Of The Guardian's Approach To Math And Sex Trafficking

    I’ve mentioned before that the newspapers tend to be written by the arts graduates: therefore by those who have no instinctual understanding of numbers. I’ve also mentioned before that certain people are trying to make out that sex trafficking is a very much larger problem than it actually is. That second piece is here. We’ve now had a piece in The Guardian that manages to combine these two most undesirable traits. Blowing up sex trafficking into a very much larger problem than it actually is and doing so by being near entirely ignorant of numbers.

    The piece is here and it’s about how there seems to be some 100,000 Vietnamese women employed in nail bars in the UK. All of whom are then forced into prostitution in the evenings.

    A report by the Sunday Times (paywalled link) this week detailed the growing prevalence of nail salons controlled by human traffickers and staffed by the trafficked, specifically from Vietnam. Industry insiders estimate that there are 100,000 Vietnamese manicurists working in the UK, despite only 29,000 Vietnamese-born migrants officially being registered in census data. The workers are often expected to paint nails by day and work in prostitution by night. Many are children – and even if they’re identified and taken in by social services, 90% will be tracked down by their traffickers and disappear from care

    As I’ve mentioned before there’s two very different things that go under the name “trafficking”. One is the involuntary movement of (usually) women into the forced sex trade. This is vile, highly illegal and is slavery and repeated rape. It’s also extremely unusual as The Guardian itself reported when it revealed the results of Operation Pentameter. When all police forces in the UK did detailed investigations into brothels, street walkers and escort agencies they were unable to find one single person in the entire country who could be prosecuted for forcing someone into sex slavery.

    The other definition of trafficking is people who voluntarily move country, sometimes to work in the sex trade, sometimes for all sorts of other work, including of course nail bars. But they move illegally as most rich countries won’t in fact offer a work visa to someone willing to do this sort of work.

    As we can see in that quoted paragraph there’s a definite intention to combine and confuse these two quite separate meanings.

    But worse than this in some ways is that the writer, and of course the layers of editors the piece passed through, just don’t understand numbers well enough to see that the claim must be wrong. For example, the best estimate of the number of prostitutes in the entire country (source, The Guardian) is some 80,000. So we’re really not going to have 100,000 Vietnamese women on the game are we? And most certainly not some substantial number of Vietnamese children doing it. People really would notice if the number of tarts doubled I think.

    There are other ways of checking such numbers. Given that the population is 60 million odd, 50% of which is female, the claim of 100,000 Vietnamese nail salon workers is that one in every 300 of the women in Britain is a Vietnamese nail salon worker. This is again something that people are likely to notice. And there’s only 1,512 nail salons in the country. We really would notice if each and every one of them had 10 Vietnamese employees. Or even, if each of these trafficked Vietnamese women is put out to work on the streets each night and has three customers (a reasonable enough number) then one in one hundred of all Englishmen is having sex with a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist each and every day.

    These are just not believable numbers: they’re obviously wrong to anyone with even the vaguest pretensions to being able to understand the world around them.

    Fortunately The Guardian does in fact employ someone who can count to 11 without taking her shoes off. Which gives us this article. Which contains this quite wonderful point:


    But again, there are more reliable sources for understanding the scale of human trafficking to the UK. Since 2009, the UK has had a National Referral Mechanism (NRM) in place to “identify individuals who may be potential victims of trafficking”.
    According to the latest statistics from January to March 2013, it is true that Vietnam is one of the top countries of concern, having the highest number of NRM cases after Albania, Nigeria and Poland. While even one case of human trafficking is one too many, the raw numbers do cast doubt on the implication that there are thousands of Vietnamese victims in the UK – 32 Vietnamese nationals were identified as potential victims in those three months

    Note that this is potential victims, not proven ones.

    There’s an old line that one should never believe what one reads in the newspapers. I don’t think I would go quite that far: but I certainly wouldn’t believe any of the numbers that turn up in The Guardian. The people who write the paper just don’t know enough about math to be able to see when they’re being flimflammed.
    Last edited by CurvaceousKate; 21-08-13 at 19:43.

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  3. #2
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    Also the trafficking convictions here are included with those for internet child porn sickos. Only an eejit would consider internet child porn (bad enough, but not doing anything to the victim) as bad as actually enslaving and moving real people across borders.

    See Hillary Clinton's dept 2013 report -

    http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2013/

    ... see countries D-I ...

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/210739.pdf

    .. page 205 col 2 ...

    "Conviction statistics in Ireland conflate possession or creation of child pornography and trafficking in persons, owing to the structure of the relevant Irish anti-trafficking law.

    One trafficker was sentenced under trafficking-related statutes to three years’ imprisonment and one was sentenced under the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 to 12 years’ imprisonment. A report by the OSCE Special Representative for Combating Trafficking noted the number of prosecutions under the anti-trafficking law was low, especially those relating to labor trafficking, in relation to the number of investigations. The government did not report any new investigations or prosecutions of public officials for alleged complicity in trafficking-related offenses during the reporting period, though it continued its investigation of a former Irish police officer for trafficking-related complicity."


    So that's 2 traffickers and one cop under suspicion who may have helped them in some way ...
    Mmmm-hmm




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    They have to clump it all together to get any kind of statistic. It's like clumping murderers with petty thieves to make up the numbers. The problem is that people don't distinguish between the differences and just think it's all wrong and why not throw it all together. Either that or they don't care enough and just want an easy life, because they know it is a taboo subject.

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    100,000 Vietnamese women forced into prostitution in the UK, and only 29,000 registered on the census, and most of these 100,000 Vietnamese people are children? I haven't misread that, have I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by samlad View Post
    100,000 Vietnamese women forced into prostitution in the UK, and only 29,000 registered on the census, and most of these 100,000 Vietnamese people are children? I haven't misread that, have I?
    Nope that is what it says. I wish I had known when I was in Cheltenham, we could have talked about clients hygiene while I was having my nails done at the local nail bar.

    They're not very good with using contraception either, as 2 of the ladies that have done my nails have got pregnant. It's not good for work.

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    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...icking-vietnam

    Article on the guardian website

    This note at the end of the article

    • This article was amended on 21 August 2013. The original version relied heavily on evidence reported by the Sunday Times. Although we credited the newspaper, the article went on to restate many of its assertions about the scale of the trafficking problem as uncontested fact. The re-edit of this article is more circumspect about the evidence, which has been questioned in our Reality Check blog, and removes a reference to child trafficking, which should not have been directly linked to the nail bar question


    Also read
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...dden-in-the-uk

    Reality check back pedalling.
    Last edited by dob; 22-08-13 at 12:18.

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    Exaggeration ?

    All i know is that you wouldn't get that from an opposition Spokesman for Justice in this country anyway....

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archive...os-240647.html

    99% are abused and trafficked ? Really , has anybody told the Anti-Trafficking Unit whose figures are falling every year www.blueblindfold.ie

    70% reduction of prostitution in Sweden since the crim legislation ? http://factsaresacred.ie/politics/ha...ned-in-sweden/

    Collins also says that the swedish model would rectify the (genuinely disturbing) street scene in limerick when he SHOULD know that soliciting/purchasing sex on the street is ALREADY illegal , so in that context, the Swedish legislation is superfluous.
    It is also ALREADY a criminal offence to have sex with an underage person,consenting or via prostitution so i'm assuming Collins contacted Henry Street with his encounter. So if its already illegal to putrchase and sell sex on the streets , already illegal to have sex with a minor , then how is the sedish legislation going to improve matters.

    And if Collins was that concerned about criminality in prostitution , then why did he and the Whitewash Committee deliberately refuse to engage with German and NZ police (similar to the Swedes) to gauge how their respective models worked in dealing with the issue?

    And this clown is a party Spokeman for Justice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milkman View Post
    Exaggeration ?

    All i know is that you wouldn't get that from an opposition Spokesman for Justice in this country anyway....

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archive...os-240647.html

    99% are abused and trafficked ? Really , has anybody told the Anti-Trafficking Unit whose figures are falling every year www.blueblindfold.ie

    70% reduction of prostitution in Sweden since the crim legislation ? http://factsaresacred.ie/politics/ha...ned-in-sweden/

    Collins also says that the swedish model would rectify the (genuinely disturbing) street scene in limerick when he SHOULD know that soliciting/purchasing sex on the street is ALREADY illegal , so in that context, the Swedish legislation is superfluous.
    It is also ALREADY a criminal offence to have sex with an underage person,consenting or via prostitution so i'm assuming Collins contacted Henry Street with his encounter. So if its already illegal to putrchase and sell sex on the streets , already illegal to have sex with a minor , then how is the sedish legislation going to improve matters.

    And if Collins was that concerned about criminality in prostitution , then why did he and the Whitewash Committee deliberately refuse to engage with German and NZ police (similar to the Swedes) to gauge how their respective models worked in dealing with the issue?

    And this clown is a party Spokeman for Justice?
    Fianna Fáil’s justice spokesman, Niall Collins, was dismissive of people who labelled prostitution as the "oldest profession in the world".

    Gardaí are still trying to establish who placed a bogus traffic sign on Catherine St in Limerick City which identified the area as a "red light district", claiming it was "open Mon to Sat from 18.00pm to 04.00".

    Prostitutes converge on the street every evening, it was noted, and many have apartments where they sit, scantily clad, at windows.

    Mr Collins said the only way to tackle prostitution was to copy a Swedish model and criminalise the purchase of sex. "In Sweden, prostitution has reportedly been reduced by 70% through legislation."

    Mr Collins said he was shocked at what he had witnessed in Catherine St with his wife.

    "I was going for a meal with my wife recently and we both could not get over how young the girls were, who were working as prostitutes. It is tragic.

    "The Government needs to act now. The Oireachtas committee report has been finalised and I will be pressing for legislative action when the Dáil resumes after the summer recess.

    "When the Oireachtas committee held its hearings on prostitution, we were told harrowing stories from these girls and young women.

    "People should realise 99% of these women have been abused and trafficked into this country. They come from very deprived circumstances.

    "These people have been abused and subjected to violence from an early age and forced into prostitution. They use pseudo names and the younger they tell clients they are, the more business they get.

    "A girl who claims she is 14 told us she would be very busy.

    "All this thing about it being the oldest profession is total rubbish and such comments are made out of ignorance by people who don’t understand that these young girls and women are controlled by well-organised, sophisticated, vicious criminal networks.

    "Men going out looking for a prostitute should be very aware that the woman they are paying is being coerced into this and the proceeds go to well organised criminals."

    Mr Collins said the problem was very serious in Limerick.

    "I will be raising the situation in Limerick when the Dáil resumes as legislation is now a priority and the government must act and bring in legislation along the lines of that enacted in Sweden."

    This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, August 22, 2013



    This statement by Niall Collins is so ridiculous it needs to be challenged.

    Some brave soul needs to write to the examiner refuting his bs.
    Email this man yourself.

    Opposition justice spokesmen always plays the hardass, but making up statistics on the spot. Citing liars like justine Reilly and Rachel Moran and talking through their asses about Swedish model, when there are existing laws that deal with the limerick situation is absolutely ridiculous.

    Call this clown out on his pompous posturing. I'm going to email him with my real name to tell him to cop himself on on his nonsense, I suggest you do the same.

    Over and out
    Dob

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    Quote Originally Posted by dob View Post
    ....

    "I was going for a meal with my wife recently and we both could not get over how young the girls were, who were working as prostitutes. It is tragic. ....

    Nowadays they start them young in FF as well -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ógra_Fianna_Fáil

    ... and, weighing up escorts as a group and fianna failers, I know for sure which group has caused the least pleasure and the most cost to the plain people of Ireland.
    Mmmm-hmm




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    On the other hand a more positive article in the Irish Times today: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ided-1.1502624 and previously: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/socia...shed-1.1460745

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