set the record straight

[Curvaceous Kate]

Oh for goodness sakes. I've no agenda, I wasn't in it for self promotion and no I don't want to be a leader, but I have always been there and so have others. Of course we listen to what others say and we are looking out to protect our selves as well, after all there is a lot to lose, but gosh, to say no one else had any interest unless there was something it for them!

I'm getting tired of all this. I will continue doing the bit that I am doing and continue to talk to those that are interested, otherwise I really don't see the point in all this point scoring and claims to be the only one who cares! Just makes me fume a little.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Oh for goodness sakes. I've no agenda, I wasn't in it for self promotion and no I don't want to be a leader, but I have always been there and so have others. Of course we listen to what others say and we are looking out to protect our selves as well, after all there is a lot to lose, but gosh, to say no one else had any interest unless there was something it for them!

I'm getting tired of all this. I will continue doing the bit that I am doing and continue to talk to those that are interested, otherwise I really don't see the point in all this point scoring and claims to be the only one who cares! Just makes me fume a little.

Would you believe, in all seriousness, that you had not once crossed my mind during the course of this thread? Not least because you are (as far as I know) in no way involved in anything I was saying, and, by the way, in a thread that involved Kelly AND Clyde I have certainly not said anything resembling:

no one else had any interest unless there was something it for them

I even just checked back...yet you seem to be perhaps trying to imply that I did say that for some reason?

Let me give you a refresher, at the EXACT time I misguidedly handed off to Rachel you were:

• English, one of the grounds on which I even excluded myself
• Not on speaking terms with me because I could not comply with your personal expectations
• Vetoing direct personal involvement in politics

[Lucy Chambers]

This thread is going to end in the same way as all the others if peeps don't calm down, lets work out what we can do to mop up some of the mess and draw a line under it, I think Kelly has.

@la belle. I think everyone appreciated your efforts. I did however have a problem with the public discussions, to some extent you were excluded by proxy as you didnt have access to them.. I already apologised, there isn't much else I can say.

[LaBelleThatcher]

This thread is going to end in the same way as all the others if peeps don't calm down, lets work out what we can do to mop up some of the mess and draw a line under it, I think Kelly has.

@la belle. I think everyone appreciated your efforts. I did however have a problem with the public discussions, to some extent you were excluded by proxy as you didnt have access to them.. I already apologised, there isn't much else I can say.

Sadly I have the same clarity of objective memory as many autistics...which forever inhibits me from mistaking excuses for the truth...especially absent the capacity to be blind, deaf and stupid.

(Rachel manipulated me pretty much "in the default")

Which is good, because excuses are useless and irrelevant in this context.

I do not give a flying fuck how badly you treat me (except when it screws up an objective!), it gets me off the hook of making excuses not to stay in touch when my role is over...

I am one of those very rare people who is solely motivated by truth, honour and justice...I have no interest in anything outside that, even personal relationships on any level.

It is only important objectively, as an example of the way a few consistently treat everyone. Even at the best of times it's the kind of *mean girls* bullying that should have ended at schooleaving, but taken to cruel and destructive extremes.

But these are *not* the best of times and that mini-culture is getting in the way of the kind of cohesion needed to fight this legislation (which, in turn would leave me free to sod off back to my own life without lying awake thinking about who is feeding the REAL ordinary decent sex workers to what kind of self serving machine).

I don't really know the answer to that...I am too autistic to figure out group dynamics...but, unless you want this Swedish Style legislation in very, VERY badly I suggest ye who LIVE by playing group dynamics, figure out how to stand that whole culture of bullying down by Monday and pretty damn genuinely, ENCOURAGE participation by all the quiet people in the shadows...because let me tell you something...*IF* there is a leader who can hold this together politically the way Pye does in Sweden *THAT* is the only place you will find them now.

...and it should be common sense 101 to recognise that any objections to Swedish Style legislation should be discussed AS OPENLY AS POSSIBLE, or there is no point at all.

The only thing that needs to be hidden (partly in shame) is how few people have felt comfortable with becoming involved.

You need another Dolores Lynch (who was one of those street workers ye all think aren't worth anything but being force fed to Ruhama) to pull this together, and you are running out of time to find her.

[LaBelleThatcher]

I'm glad we agree on something that's what I said also in your first paragraph ....

You see this is all politics .. He said she said blaa blaa blaa

So what are you ACTUALLY suggesting here Clyde?

That we brush everything truthful anyone wants to say under the carpet in favour of pretending none of this happened and supporting those who created the mess in the first place and still have te same motivation and agenda in going on copperfastening it and making it even worse?

THAT will work...

Let's recall Bertie Aherne while we are at it...



The mess that happened to date MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...and the only way to ensure that is to admit and face it, and the factors that went into creating it...

...and BY THE WAY Kelly had more than every right to tell the truth as it happened...not just leave it to people to imagine.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Nope I just don't see the point in going on and on it gets us nowhere, it's just going to get more heated. Nobody can turn the clock back we live in the now. As I said its all politics it's kinda like Collins v develara what's done is done so its best to move forward would you agree with me on that ..

Totally, but, from now on, without input from anyone who's personal interests are now established to more closely parallel the opposition's.

What you may have a better grasp of than most is that we are up against Pros here...not our choice...they forced us into that position...and believe me, however ruthless, cunning, manipulative and able to impose control upon a situation anyone here thinks they are for day to day purposes, YE ARE NOT IN THE LEAGUE of what you are going up against.

If it was a situation where there was a realistic choice I would say "walk away". Hell I would walk away myself...

..let me put it on the line for you...so everybody understands the ground they are standing on...

If this legislation passes the sex industry will, of course, go on, but only under the rigid control of organisations already moving into place who have managed to establish more effective control over the relevant Gardai than the State has (i am sure ye can all pause for a moment of quiet contemplation and reflect upon evidence of this ye are already aware of - the "Swedish Model" will PARTICULARLY cause coecion and trafficking in an Irish context).

This means you have 3 choices:

1. You can get right out of the sex industry (and in this economy good luck with organising luxuries like food)
2. You can vie for one of the few positions of trust and authority within the organisations moving into place...a dozen, maybe 20 people will achieve that at least for a short while, and those who last longer will be betraying everything human in themselves while watching for knives in the back for the duration, but hey...it's a job?
3. You can FORGET EVERYTHING except fighting this and recognising that we can't afford mistakes, personal allegiances and power struggles or personal ideas of what people *SHOULD* react to...every blow has to be on the target and deadly effective...at the same standard as a Madison Avenue PR team

Go for *3* achieve it, and we CAN STILL WIN...but it has to happen *NOW*.

[Curvaceous Kate]

Would you believe, in all seriousness, that you had not once crossed my mind during the course of this thread? Not least because you are (as far as I know) in no way involved in anything I was saying, and, by the way, in a thread that involved Kelly AND Clyde I have certainly not said anything resembling:

Let me give you a refresher, at the EXACT time I misguidedly handed off to Rachel you were:

• English, one of the grounds on which I even excluded myself
• Not on speaking terms with me because I could not comply with your personal expectations
• Vetoing direct personal involvement in politics

*coughs, I believe you didn't trust the people I was trying to help with regards to the meeting and stopped talking to me, but that is neither here nor there. The fact is that you were not the only person who cared or spent time on this.

The fact is we are not in the same room and most of the time we are not (as Escorts, ex or otherwise) in the same County. It is near on impossible to co-ordinate something like this, especially with the nature of touring, as you have a short amount of time, with high costs in which to make money, so spare time is of a premium if in existence at all. I think we can safely say from experience that relying on forums, email and the internet generally for something as important as this is practically impossible, unreliable and inefficient, but what is the alternative?

As dob has already stated there is no clear leader, but personally I don't put that down to lack of leadership skills, but lack of facilities, lack of communication due to locations, reliability of internet connection and work commitments. To be able to co-ordinate something so disjointed would need someone on the case full-time and not working and I don't think anyone can afford to do that. They would also need to be able to travel across the North and the South and co-ordinate and organise small pockets of meetings in order to allocate and delegate jobs that best fitted who ever was willing to volunteer.

Considering how disjointed everything is, I don't think we have done that badly, but when you have the main organisations working against you and blatantly making up stories, pretending to take you seriously, when they never really intended to pay any attention or give you a chance to represent yourself, then how far can any leader take us? Pat Neary and SWAI lied! It's as simple as that. They never intended to let the Escorts that wrote submissions go to that meeting, so what could we have done?

I even just checked back...yet you seem to be perhaps trying to imply that I did say that for some reason?

[Laura Lee]

Sorry to butt in, but I simply had to comment on this part -

"Laura Lee is not active in Ireland, she tours here sometimes."

Um, I am Irish by birth and have worked the length and breath of Ireland in every whorehouse they
ever built. I can rebut almost every word that comes out of Rachel Moran's mouth and will do so at
any given opportunity.

I worked in Dublin (and on tour) at the same time as her, and I know that 90% of what she is saying
is scripted BS.

I just wanted to clarify that, Kelly I'm sorry you're having hassle and good on you for standing up for
yourself.

[LaBelleThatcher]

*coughs, I believe you didn't trust the people I was trying to help with regards to the meeting and stopped talking to me, but that is neither here nor there. The fact is that you were not the only person who cared or spent time on this.

That is also true but you were already off in a sulk because I would not accept you (a total stranger, far younger than me) as my personal saviour, and objected to you reinventing me (at length), on a very personal level, behind my back. By which stage, if we are going to have it ALL out in the open, my distrust definately was not *limited* to people you "were trying to help" (who were, presumably, consenting adults?) who were, at the time, mostly working on striving to exclude me from the justice committee because they were too wrapped up in themselves to notice that I already excluded myself months earlier and (on the final count) 3 separate times...because I did not want to be a "token nigger" (as appeared the intention of both the Committee and SWAI).

(Wasn't it around that time I found you somewhere else quoting the Daily Mail as the 5th Gospel?)

Doesn't MATTER what SWAI and Pat Neary did...you have no control over that part of the problem, beyond never letting anything depend on them again...the only part of the problem you can control is the part some played in blowing it with backbiting, bitching faction fighting and knives in the back...which was significant.

I feel too tired and angry to say anymore.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Sorry to butt in, but I simply had to comment on this part -

"Laura Lee is not active in Ireland, she tours here sometimes."

Um, I am Irish by birth and have worked the length and breath of Ireland in every whorehouse they
ever built. I can rebut almost every word that comes out of Rachel Moran's mouth and will do so at
any given opportunity.

I worked in Dublin (and on tour) at the same time as her, and I know that 90% of what she is saying
is scripted BS.

I just wanted to clarify that, Kelly I'm sorry you're having hassle and good on you for standing up for
yourself.

BOTTOM LINE.

Laura is an Irish Citizen, born and bred here who has worked in most aspects of the Irish sex industry and has known plenty of people who worked in the others...

Laura is EXACTLY the person the government is supposed to be morally obliged protect, respect and facilitate by legislation above all non-nationals (including me), as is Kelly, as is Saoirse.