Nelson Mandela

[whatsup]

No doubt about it he was probably one of the few people who was revered world wide as a great person who was there for the good of others - not himself. Before my time but the only person i can think of that could compare with him is Gandhi!

[bluefan1]

This worries me too. Mandela was respected by the current ANC, and they may feel they towed the line. Now that he is gone though is a different story.

Kill the boer, kill the farmer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm9nUhTFYfM

Jacob Zuma (alleged rapist of an HIV positive daughter of a friend. – His ideology – don’t use a condom, take a shower after having sex, and you won’t catch aids….) – people look up to him and he says things like this!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4879822.stm

Winnie Mandela – the murderer of stompie (a child informant)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-1258597.html

Julius Malema – fired by the ANC but still has a lot of support through the youth of poverty stricken South Africans. Chants ‘kill the boer – kill the farmer’.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm9nUhTFYfM

These are people that I don’t trust.

AHHH Nikkita......I sense an agenda.

On the day the world loses one of the greatest humans ever to have bestrode this planet you chose to post this??

I note that in your profile you describe yourself as British, so should I list a few pertinent statements by British politicians (maybe members of the governing Conservative Party - the Young Tories are always especially good for a comment) that could be taken as a basis for the rest of us to worry about the stability of the UK? No, I think not. I'd prefer to spend my time more usefully ......like for instance remembering the great achievements of Nelson Mandela and the debt owed him by every human alive who can look to him for inspiration in how one should act. Instead, I will think of how one man saved the SA nation and who helped free millions from the evil of Apartheid and from turmoil and bloodshed - a man who personified gracefulness and whom you would sully by association with these discredited figures you quote.

I suggest you read of how Mandela talked down the incendiary Buthelezi and his Zulu IFP Party and brought him into a power sharing executive and thereby avoided war. The British government's has acknowledged that this action and others by Mandela and the ANC directly led to the opening of talks four years later with the IRA in Northern Ireland; talks that subsequently led to the so-called the 'peace process'.

South Africa has not yet come to terms with many of it's problems but which nation-state has? Britain, The USA, Ireland? Regime change of such a scale has never been painless but it's also never been so peaceful - Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, etc.

If only Palestine had been blessed with one figure of half the import and personality of Nelson Mandela when the British walked away - without ever accepting any responsibility for the chaos they left behind - how many lives would have been saved and how much of the continuing suffering would have been avoided.

The ANC have to yet to prove they can prevent the excess inherent in a one-party government system but I'm confident that the people of South Africa will reject the uneducated ramblings of some of their citizens as they have so clinically excised Julius Malema. He will at least be tried before the courts for fraud next year unlike many here in Ireland who lived by the same self-enhancing principles.

I urge you to look to the beauty that Nelson Mandela created and not to be concerned that the huge economic, social and political force will be destabilised by the loony few.......

Finally, remember the brave Dunnes Stores' 12 - who lost their jobs and picketed for three years inspired by the justice of their cause - these and their ilk around the world deserve to be remembered and quoted on days such as these.

[braveboy]

AHHH Nikkita......I sense an agenda.

On the day the world loses one of the greatest humans ever to have bestrode this planet you chose to post this??

I note that in your profile you describe yourself as British, so should I list a few pertinent statements by British politicians (maybe members of the governing Conservative Party - the Young Tories are always especially good for a comment) that could be taken as a basis for the rest of us to worry about the stability of the UK? No, I think not. I'd prefer to spend my time more usefully ......like for instance remembering the great achievements of Nelson Mandela and the debt owed him by every human alive who can look to him for inspiration in how one should act. Instead, I will think of how one man saved the SA nation and who helped free millions from the evil of Apartheid and from turmoil and bloodshed - a man who personified gracefulness and whom you would sully by association with these discredited figures you quote.

I suggest you read of how Mandela talked down the incendiary Buthelezi and his Zulu IFP Party and brought him into a power sharing executive and thereby avoided war. The British government's has acknowledged that this action and others by Mandela and the ANC directly led to the opening of talks four years later with the IRA in Northern Ireland; talks that subsequently led to the so-called the 'peace process'.

South Africa has not yet come to terms with many of it's problems but which nation-state has? Britain, The USA, Ireland? Regime change of such a scale has never been painless but it's also never been so peaceful - Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, etc.

If only Palestine had been blessed with one figure of half the import and personality of Nelson Mandela when the British walked away - without ever accepting any responsibility for the chaos they left behind - how many lives would have been saved and how much of the continuing suffering would have been avoided.

The ANC have to yet to prove they can prevent the excess inherent in a one-party government system but I'm confident that the people of South Africa will reject the uneducated ramblings of some of their citizens as they have so clinically excised Julius Malema. He will at least be tried before the courts for fraud next year unlike many here in Ireland who lived by the same self-enhancing principles.

I urge you to look to the beauty that Nelson Mandela created and not to be concerned that the huge economic, social and political force will be destabilised by the loony few.......

Finally, remember the brave Dunnes Stores' 12 - who lost their jobs and picketed for three years inspired by the justice of their cause - these and their ilk around the world deserve to be remembered and quoted on days such as these.

Or perhaps in the midst of your sadness, your sensory antennae needs re-tuning. It's not an insult to Mandela's memory to worry about the future when the father of the nation has passed coupled with a sharp increase in violent protests, sharp food price increases and a fractious political system which is doing little to address the exteme proverty many face.

Being British, Irish, Russian or Chinese has no bearing on that so cut the xenophobic nonsense.

[bluefan1]

Or perhaps in the midst of your sadness, your sensory antennae needs re-tuning. It's not an insult to Mandela's memory to worry about the future when the father of the nation has passed coupled with a sharp increase in violent protests, sharp food price increases and a fractious political system which is doing little to address the exteme proverty many face.

Being British, Irish, Russian or Chinese has no bearing on that so cut the xenophobic nonsense.

So, the retreat of the weak......name calling!

Show me the Xenophobia in my post.... All that I've said is based on fact and not name calling!

The Conservative Party Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher referred to Mandela as a "Terrorist" and urged resistance to talks with the ANC. Do you deny the situation in the Middle East crisis and that this can largely be traced to the behaviour of the British government in 1948? Now there's an example of how not to organise Regime Change!

Do you also deny the increasing rapport between the governing Conservative Party and UKIP - a much more worrying trend on our doorstep.

Where do you get your information? The recent IHS Index Report by the independent US-based company confirmed that crime in South Africa is at at an all-time low in the past 15 years.This was widely reported in mainstream media. Crime is way too high in Sth Africa and cannot be justified but if you examine the statistics for other developed nations they do not justify the hype. Give a dog a bad name.....

Take prison populations as an indicator: per 100,000 of the population, the US comes in at #1 with 761 with SA at 289 ...for the record Russia has 484, the UK 149 and Ireland 99.

Reasoned debate is all I ask for so prove me wrong and I'll happily concede. Mandela is a global hero and on the day of his death to posit that the nation state he largely created faced potential collapse does him and his people a shocking dis-service..the timing of the comment was also shit!

[Nikkita]

On the day the world loses one of the greatest humans ever to have bestrode this planet you chose to post this??

Yes I chose to post this. Mandela was 95 and had been struggling with health problems for the last 6 months. He was not immortal. I can guarantee that I am not the only person who has wondered about the void his death would create?

I am not sullying his image by mentioning Winnie, Julius and Jacob. These people have a huge influence on the population and that is a reality.

The ANC have to yet to prove they can prevent the excess inherent in a one-party government system but I'm confident that the people of South Africa will reject the uneducated ramblings of some of their citizens as they have so clinically excised Julius Malema. He will at least be tried before the courts for fraud next year unlike many here in Ireland who lived by the same self-enhancing principles.

40% of the population live in rural areas, live on less than 2 dollars a day and are illiterate. How can you say that you are confident they will reject uneducated ramblings….They will take the ANC’s word to be gospel and I just hope that the current ANC upholds Mandela’s mantra.

I was in South Africa in February and will be back in April. If you are around we should meet up and I’ll give you a tour.

[braveboy]

So, the retreat of the weak......name calling!

Show me the Xenophobia in my post.... All that I've said is based on fact and not name calling!

The Conservative Party Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher referred to Mandela as a "Terrorist" and urged resistance to talks with the ANC. Do you deny the situation in the Middle East crisis and that this can largely be traced to the behaviour of the British government in 1948? Now there's an example of how not to organise Regime Change!

Do you also deny the increasing rapport between the governing Conservative Party and UKIP - a much more worrying trend on our doorstep.

Where do you get your information? The recent IHS Index Report by the independent US-based company confirmed that crime in South Africa is at at an all-time low in the past 15 years.This was widely reported in mainstream media. Crime is way too high in Sth Africa and cannot be justified but if you examine the statistics for other developed nations they do not justify the hype. Give a dog a bad name.....

Take prison populations as an indicator: per 100,000 of the population, the US comes in at #1 with 761 with SA at 289 ...for the record Russia has 484, the UK 149 and Ireland 99.

Reasoned debate is all I ask for so prove me wrong and I'll happily concede. Mandela is a global hero and on the day of his death to posit that the nation state he largely created faced potential collapse does him and his people a shocking dis-service..the timing of the comment was also shit!

Nikitta wrote a post where she was concerned about the future for SA. You've managed to drag Maggie, the Arab-Israeli war, UKIP et al into a response. For what point? So we can blame the Brits if SA fucks up her future? How original!

Thanks for the stats lesson but I think I'd rather take my insights from some like Graca Machel who said SA is 'bleeding and breathing pain'. The dream has faded for many living in poverty and destitution.
And you can be fairly certain that was said with the blessing of Himself.

[Sexy Susan]

Amazing personage, rest in peace.

[Jaygoodtimes]

R.I.P Mandela

I know some people on facebook who actually asked what films Mandela was in and they seem to show more respect for this Paul Walker chap...

This is why I hate the world

[La Toya]

Nelson Mandela did walk that long road to freedom,so this what he....“I have walked that long road to freedom. I have tried not to falter; I have made missteps along the way. But I have discovered the secret that after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. I have taken a moment here to rest, to steal a view of the glorious vista that surrounds me, to look back on the distance I have come. But I can only rest for a moment, for with freedom come responsibilities, and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not ended.”― Nelson Mandela
R.I.P NELSON MANDELA...!

[bluefan1]

You've managed to drag Maggie, the Arab-Israeli war, UKIP et al into a response. For what point?

Braveboy, I used a fair debating technique in an attempt to prove my point.

I was in South Africa in February and will be back in April. If you are around we should meet up and I’ll give you a tour.

Nikitta, I hope we do meet up sometime (the reason we're both on here I guess?) whether in Ireland or SA.. I won't need the tour though. My family are in South Africa and I visit for a goodly time every year. Hence my interest and love of this wonderful land and people. I also met Mandela, so for all these reasons I may have a touchy spot easily stung!!

I've made my points anyway but it's great to have a debate on here with you and Braveboy. A change from the usual 'Happy Birthday' tout-threads I think you'll agree.....