Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality

**LaBelleThatcher** · 22-02-13, 18:32

Originally Posted by Stephanie

Before street prostitution was made illegal, were there street walkers ? Were there more than now ?

If a pimp had a handful of girls, if he/she has the option to put the girls/workers on the street without having to pay for

overhead on accommodation, do you think he/she might opt for the street trade ?

Or even some Independents , if it is no longer illegal to walk the streets, would some opt to save on rent ?

I'm certain if there's no specific law prohibiting street prostitution, there would be a dramatic increase.

Now I have to say this is WHY I did not think it was a good idea for you to go before the committee rather than someone with more experience, knowledge and vested interest in an Irish context...

You honestly do not know any more about street work than the average Paul Connelly viewer...and you decided to go into committee as a foreign national make declarations about street work that are likely to do as much harm to innocent IRISH sex workers as Ruhama could ever wish.

Before criminalisation pretty much 100% of street workers were totally independent...there was NO SUCH THING as a street pimp.

Very simple reason:

Where would you rather herd cats?

In an enclosed space or out on the street.

**LaBelleThatcher** · 22-02-13, 18:38

Originally Posted by Alyssa Jenkins

I do not understand the logic why from indoor to a street worker?

I think this goes back to the fact that in their submission Ruhama were asking for changes with draconian penalties that would make landlords too afraid to rent a home, let alone anything else to anyone they suspect might be a sex worker.

**Rachel Divine** · 22-02-13, 18:46

Originally Posted by LaBelleThatcher

Let's see how much I can tidy up here:

Good grief! DO NOT do that...

SWAI are only interested in getting funding and furthering their own careers and agenda. Whatever they claim on the surface, in reality, they are determined to completely exclude sex workers. They are very dishonest and have behaved very shabbily, and several committee members (and other is politics) are already aware of that IN THEIR OWN RIGHT.

Believe it or not it is a rerun of exactly the same method Ruhama used to rise...by offering to help sex workers fight the 1993 act.

Pat Neary is *NOT* a committee member, he is acting clerk of committee, because Alan Guidon is out sick. It was explained to me AT LENGTH that the committee, and ONLY the committee would be making the decisions about who to see from the "hundreds" (that word was used whether consciously or not) of submissions the committee had received from sex workers. The person who explained that to me *WAS* Pat Neary...a couple of weeks ago, so, even by his own account it was improper for him to choose who appeared before committee...

NOT YOUR FAULT...

...but still improper...and, through my long and disreputable life I have consistently found that most of these obscure protocols have solid, practical foundations.

WHAT a preposterous suggestion...

But you have to admit, it *IS* amazing what I can do with a handbell and a box of dog biscuits in my mountain stronghold, isn't it?

SWAI is telling me every day to go and meet them , to participate in their meetings and also, they encourage any sex worker to get in contact with them. In my experience they are great people to deal with.

I those quotes I didnt say Pat Neary is a Committee member , I know he is not , also, the Committee put him in charge of inviting active sex workers at the hearing.

There was no need for an Irish active escort, as Step handled the situation very well.
Also, in my opinion, after reading many posts from certain escorts, the best decision was not to take an Irish or UK escort in .

The new law is about prostitution indoors, not street sex workers, at the moment is illegal to buy sex from a street sex worker , they want to do the same with indoors prostitutes... Forget about outdoors sex workers...

**Naughtynatalie** · 22-02-13, 18:52

I know very little about the swedish model but LBT's posts have confused me rather than 'tidy anything up'!

Does anything in the swedish model relate to street workers? I thought it was to aimed at criminalising clients of indoor workers as clients of street workers are already criminalised

If I am correct why does street workers rights keep being mentioned?

Of course I believe they should have as much right as indoor sex workers but that fight was lost in 1999 or whenever it came in in Ireland.

**milkman** · 22-02-13, 19:15

Originally Posted by PoxyProxy

You got your exclusionary hearing, now get back to the fucking "life" you supposedly keep talking about!

You mean you've been following the entire Joint Oireachtais Meeting threads since December , and LBT's remark is the post that 'inspires' you to make your debut post on the matter - please do everybody a favour and take some of that advice that you've just offered LBT.....

**milkman** · 22-02-13, 19:37

Originally Posted by Brock

Still beating the old "street prostitution drum" eh Labelle?

If you knew about street prostitution then why did you completely exaggerate the extant of it in a previous thread that you can not support with any reputable empirical research? Nothing supports your view that street walkers are the majority. Nothing!

Labelle seems to have a problem with some escorts when they want to let others speak in support for them. Hmm. Drag the bull by by the nose is it? and expect them to propogate your views? Very aggressive strategy there you have Labelle and its becoming very noticable.

What does Labelle propogate in the majority of her rants about sex workers, they are all desperate, starving, dieing if they had clients criminalised, which is a quite bizarre thing to propogate given that street walkers clients are already criminalised.

Does labelle want to conflate illegal street prostitution with legal private indoor lone prostitution together so as to drag down the legality of indoor prostitution? in attempts to enforce the argument to decriminalise street walker sellers with the rebound effect affecting the legality of indoor prostitution on the grounds that all indoor escorts are desperate and in survival mode and "hate selling sex" as she implies? that strategical effect is leaning towards the view that the model on prostitution should be geared towards street prostitution rather than indoor prostitution, with added criminalisation for clients of indoor escorts.

Was she really a former sex worker?

Labelle comes across as some type of shill for TORL, the anti ruhama and TORL rants from her are not at all convincing, given that she too beats the drum of conflating street prostitution with indoor prostitution just like Ruhama and TORL do and all their supporters on the committee. Note too that she has severely criticised escorts who disagree with her tactics and shouts them down.

Because LabelleThatcher keeps hijacking the threads to make it all about street prostitution when anyone with any sense of reason would know that the TORL campaign is about indoor prostitution not outdoor prostitution. However, TORL readily seek to conflate illegal street prostitution with legal private indoor prostitution exactly like LabelleThatcher does.

LBT - an undercover agent for TORL ?? - doubt it esp after the two woman protest by herself and Rachel in front of Dail unless this is unseen footage of herself and TORL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvJyGRpozY

**MollyM** · 22-02-13, 19:49

Originally Posted by Naughtynatalie

Of course I believe they should have as much right as indoor sex workers but that fight was lost in 1999 or whenever it came in in Ireland.

1993. I don't think this review of prostitution law is looking exclusively at indoor prostitution, so it is an opportunity for the laws around outdoor sex work to be discussed as much as it is the laws around indoor sex work.

Originally Posted by Brock

...Does labelle want to conflate illegal street prostitution with legal private indoor lone prostitution together so as to drag down the legality of indoor prostitution?...

Your whole post is angry sounding. I know very little about outdoor sex work. But I'm glad there is at least one person here who does. I also think your choice of language smacks of discrimination against outdoor sex work, the way you talk about outdoor sex work being illegal and indoor lone prostitution legal and say conflating them is "dragging down" indoor sex work. Everyone in sex work, outdoors and indoors, is impacted on by bad laws. To play devil's advocate, do the lone indoor sex workers you speak of advertise anywhere, as if they do that's criminal of them technically, although we haven't seen prosecutions for this yet?

**LaBelleThatcher** · 22-02-13, 20:07

Originally Posted by Brock

Still beating the old "street prostitution drum" eh Labelle?

(snipped out of respect for people of integrity and sensitivity who probably didn't want to read it the FIRST time)

I will tell you what I believe.

I believe that anybody who is prepared to throw the street workers under a bus for ANY reason deserves to meet the same fate themselves.

**Naughtynatalie** · 22-02-13, 20:19

Originally Posted by LaBelleThatcher

I will tell you what I believe.

I believe that anybody who is prepared to throw the street workers under a bus for ANY reason deserves to meet the same fate themselves.

why do you always have to be so dramatic, no one is throwing anyone under a bus ffs

**LaBelleThatcher** · 22-02-13, 20:23