India : what will it take to change ??

[Stephanie]

(NEW DELHI) — Police said Sunday they have arrested six suspects in another gang rape of a bus passenger in India, four weeks after a brutal attack on a student on a moving bus in the capital outraged Indians and led to calls for tougher rape laws.


http://world.time.com/2013/01/13/6-a...nger-in-india/

In India post rape doctor's examination is still, to this day consists of the 'finger test' where a rape victim is probed by a doctor's finger : if one finger fits, she might be believed. If two finger is inserted, then the official doctor's report might read "the laxity of the vagina would indicate that the woman was habituated to intercourse" -- implying a looseness of the woman's morals..
How barbaric ! A woman who was brutally violated then has to endure yet another man's fingers thrusting and poking inside her.

The horror of it !

There are strenuous calls to change the laws, but it would seem that it is an uphill battle. The police are just as complicit in the mistreatment of women as are the attackers :

In one case a man (a foreigner) made a complaint against a business associate. Since the police were not able to go after the culprit, they arrested his sister. When the complainant went to the police station to inquire about the case, the policaman told him that they are holding the sister, and that the man (the complainant) was welcome to go inside and do with her 'whatever you want' . The foreign man took it upon himself to hire a man to guard the woman in the police station -- from the police..

A long way to go.

Now on account of the recent brutalities against women that have come to light , there is new scrutiny regarding all aspects of Indian society. According to a recent Time article, as many as 1 out of two children report having been sexually assaulted.. and the conjecture is that the large majority of children do not report.. Seems incongruent, but/and shocking.

http://world.time.com/2013/02/07/ind...ild-sex-abuse/

My question : is it just India ?

Or is the only difference between 'them' and 'us' is that we (Western) society are more transparent (generally) , and that this

transparency thwarts misdeeds ? Have we too had such horrid ways and it is only in modern times that we mended our ways ?

Is it poverty and lack of education ?

[very shy guy]

Or is it a totally f*cked up socity ?,I don't think we are at that level of volence towards women here and hope we never are,it is bad enough at the moment.

[sharkskin]

It is deeply ingrained in thousands of years of culture. Western nations are conditioned by Christian culture. Even if you do not believe in the Christian God, growing up in the West gives you many of the associated values. Mary is venerated as the mother of Christ and ideas such as the possession of a soul, having God live within you and being in the image of God apply (almost) equally to men and women.

With two thousand years of tradition behind them, Western Christian societies have reached the point where the majority believes that women should be treated as the equals of men.

Societies that have thousands of years of tradition of regarding women as useful only for producing male offspring will take a very long time to reach that point.

I do not say this to excuse or to denigrate other cultures but to highlight that change will not be an easy exercise.

[Morpheus]

Shocking!!! Thanks for highlighting this other case Stephanie.

What will it take for the attitudes to change?

A couple of life sentences or even death sentences might be a start!

[naughty_g5]

It is deeply ingrained in thousands of years of culture. Western nations are conditioned by Christian culture. Even if you do not believe in the Christian God, growing up in the West gives you many of the associated values. Mary is venerated as the mother of Christ and ideas such as the possession of a soul, having God live within you and being in the image of God apply (almost) equally to men and women.

With two thousand years of tradition behind them, Western Christian societies have reached the point where the majority believes that women should be treated as the equals of men.

Societies that have thousands of years of tradition of regarding women as useful only for producing male offspring will take a very long time to reach that point.

I do not say this to excuse or to denigrate other cultures but to highlight that change will not be an easy exercise.

Its nothing to do with religion buddy, nothing at all. Hinduism has multiple women goddess, some more revered then male counterparts.

Indian mentality on how they look at women needs to change, it is changing with better eduction and it will change.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2...ger-rape-test/

[sharkskin]

Its nothing to do with religion buddy, nothing at all. Hinduism has multiple women goddess, some more revered then male counterparts.

Indian mentality on how they look at women needs to change, it is changing with better eduction and it will change.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2...ger-rape-test/

I said tradition and culture - not religion - for a reason. The view of women as property is common across much of Asia and it is seen across many faiths. Even if you want to look at one religion, just because a religion has deities that are portrayed as having female gender, does not mean that the religion fosters a belief in the rights of women.

[Cassandra]

Sweet crimney

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2...obref=obinsite

[Chutney]

Is it just India? Sadly, it appears not to be the case, Stephanie.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ding-site.html

"South Africa has the highest number of reported rapes per head of population of any Interpol member country, with more than 64,500 reported in 2011/2012.
A rape is said to be committed in South Africa every four minutes.
Even when suspects are caught, only 12 percent of cases end in conviction and sex crimes seldom cause much public concern."

[Stephanie]

Is it just India? Sadly, it appears not to be the case, Stephanie.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ding-site.html

"South Africa has the highest number of reported rapes per head of population of any Interpol member country, with more than 64,500 reported in 2011/2012.
A rape is said to be committed in South Africa every four minutes.
Even when suspects are caught, only 12 percent of cases end in conviction and sex crimes seldom cause much public concern."

Hm. So then I ask :

Is it poverty ? Lack of education ? Or a hopelessness ingrained in the fabric of a society ?

When your own life is uncertain and you have no hope, empathy becomes a luxury most cannot afford,

and within a very short time empathy indeed disappears from the consciousness of a people.

Is that what's happened in these societies ?



South Africa also has the one of the highest, horrifying rate of infant rapes. Even the though does not bear contemplating.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...n_South_Africa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm


And here's something that has been in the back of my mind :

"It is hardly believable - but some think that this is not new, only that a horrible truth is finally being acknowledged

Township (poor) youngsters are among the most vulnerable

"Actually it's not a new phenomenon, it's been something that you hide, you regard it as an embarrassment within the family. But now people have started to talk, they've decided that they've had enough," a woman protester told me.


Is it possible that it is social transparency that can wipe out such horrific behavior ?

To take the shame away from the victim and firmly place it on the perpetrator.

To hand out severe penalties : quick and final -- death penalty ?

[Westsidex]

Hanging and if thats not enough of a deterant then something additional.

Westside.