Genuine escorts or trfficed girls???

[JAMESCORK]

I am not convinced I would have met them myself, but I would have come across SOME hard evidence sooner or later...and I haven't...

But I have come across almost endless evidence of deliberate panicmongering with alterior motives.

Of course there are sex workers in situations where they need help to rescue themselves, but any I have ever seen were on very personal terms.

The "trafficking epidemic" is part mythical bogeyman (agenda for the pursuit of), and, partly, more sinisterly, a covert outlet for the growing xenophobia that is an inevitable by product of a period of reactionary ascendency and a global recession.

This post sums it up for me really... especially the reference to "deliberate panic mongering with ulterior motive"

Why is it always the native English speakers seem to have the inside story, whereas there are many quite fluent and intelligent non-native speakers that disagree with the intensity of their argument. As Sam has posted, there are cases out there if a journalist really looks for them, and Im sure ye all can have anecdotal evidence too… but lest get real here... how prevalent are these cases.

Lets consider the sex industry in Ireland at the moment. We have escorts that advertise on large websites like E-I, and we have a scattering of street workers that in fairness are a dying trade. When we say one should be cautious of the signs, are we referring to those who work indoors and are advertised on these large websites, or are we referring to those who try to grasp a living on the streets. As I have no knowledge of street workers I can only give my experiences of those who work indoors, so as to speak. So lets assume that we are not talking about the very few that still work the streets, as I feel these girls could well be compromised/coerced and may have problems… having said that I don’t know for sure.

So what are your experiences, you the experienced English escort, as opposed to mine? I say English, because there is barely any other nationality voicing an opinion as strongly as the native English speakers to date, not all mind, but the majority, and don’t tell me there are not enough foreign girls here articulate enough nor experienced enough to voice an opinion. You state you have heard of or have had witness of escorts who are coerced into the escorting trade here in Ireland. In some cases you quote clients who at first hand have had experiences of trafficked or coerced girls working through this website. You also put forward that the younger and less fluent English speaking are more prone. Have you reported any profiles? Sam has offered a link for any such reports; maybe he will tell us how many reports he has had to date. To have received one is one too many, but lets get a perspective here. Of the 600 girls that advertise daily here, is there maybe one a week? One a month? None?

My point is this; in my experiences, using this website, I have never seen a girl that is not comfortable working as an escort in Ireland. I have met them face to face, you have not, and don’t insult my intelligence, please. If you want to make a case please back it up with concrete evidence or else accept it as anecdotal. If we are to warn punters to beware of trafficked or coerced girls advertising on this website then so by backing it up with proof. profiles… otherwise it is spoof, and only a means to sway the punter to visit only what you deem to be a kosher escort…

[Lilian]

This post sums it up for me really... especially the reference to "deliberate panic mongering with ulterior motive"

Why is it always the native English speakers seem to have the inside story, whereas there are many quite fluent and intelligent non-native speakers that disagree with the intensity of their argument. As Sam has posted, there are cases out there if a journalist really looks for them, and Im sure ye all can have anecdotal evidence too… but lest get real here... how prevalent are these cases.

Lets consider the sex industry in Ireland at the moment. We have escorts that advertise on large websites like E-I, and we have a scattering of street workers that in fairness are a dying trade. When we say one should be cautious of the signs, are we referring to those who work indoors and are advertised on these large websites, or are we referring to those who try to grasp a living on the streets. As I have no knowledge of street workers I can only give my experiences of those who work indoors, so as to speak. So lets assume that we are not talking about the very few that still work the streets, as I feel these girls could well be compromised/coerced and may have problems… having said that I don’t know for sure.

So what are your experiences, you the experienced English escort, as opposed to mine? I say English, because there is barely any other nationality voicing an opinion as strongly as the native English speakers to date, not all mind, but the majority, and don’t tell me there are not enough foreign girls here articulate enough nor experienced enough to voice an opinion. You state you have heard of or have had witness of escorts who are coerced into the escorting trade here in Ireland. In some cases you quote clients who at first hand have had experiences of trafficked or coerced girls working through this website. You also put forward that the younger and less fluent English speaking are more prone. Have you reported any profiles? Sam has offered a link for any such reports; maybe he will tell us how many reports he has had to date. To have received one is one too many, but lets get a perspective here. Of the 600 girls that advertise daily here, is there maybe one a week? One a month? None?

My point is this; in my experiences, using this website, I have never seen a girl that is not comfortable working as an escort in Ireland. I have met them face to face, you have not, and don’t insult my intelligence, please. If you want to make a case please back it up with concrete evidence or else accept it as anecdotal. If we are to warn punters to beware of trafficked or coerced girls advertising on this website then so by backing it up with proof. profiles… otherwise it is spoof, and only a means to sway the punter to visit only what you deem to be a kosher escort…

I have met a lot of ladies in this industry face to face and have first hand experience with ladies who have been trafficked , also via my membership with Hydra ( organisation for Prostitutes ) , so I do have inside stories !

What makes you think Ireland/NorthenIreland is an exception to all other countries batteling this terrible trade ?
Cause you havent met ladies who through themselfs to your feets begging to be rescued ? Come on get real here !
If you havent met a trafficked lady yet , congrates .

And yes , profiles have been reported , not only via Sams link and people have been arrested down to this reports !
You will hardly find an escort who was involved in bringing down tafficker/ criminals in this trade , stand up and raise her hand to tell you all about it , cause you demand evidence , thats dangerouse , why do you think those people can be reported anonymus !

We all know it exists , but playing it down and /or denying it , doesnt make it go away !

Oh and I am a foreign non-native speaker who has no problems to voice my opinion loud and clear ...

You have a higher chance to encounter a trafficked lady by seeing an foreign , young , lady who speaks hardly any english , then meeting a native speaker or a foreign lady with fluent english !

[warmcome]

Can I ask a question?

Something I'm always curious about when I see these types of threads.

Is it only victims of sex trafficking we should be concerned about? Are the other types of trafficking not important once it's not people being forced to work as escorts against their will?

Take the drugs biz for instance.

There have been a few threads going back the last 6 months or so about escorts who take recreational drugs or when you arrive for appointments and the escort is clearly under the influence or something. (I can't be arsed looking for the relevant links at the moment). I think some escorts did have the backbone to say "yeah, i like the odd spliff or line of coke now and again"

But I seem to recall at the time when these threads were posted, that escorts said what they did in their own free time was nobody's business and clients shouldn't be poking their noses in, which is fair enough.

But I'm wondering, for those escorts here pontificating about trafficked girls and taking the moral high ground (and this obviously only applies to those escorts who like to indulge in recreational drug use) and telling clients to get a backbone, what is the difference between someone who has been enslaved, trafficked and forced to work as drug mule so you can have your lines of coke, pop your pills and smoke your spliffs and someone who has been trafficked into prostitution?

Isn't it bascially the same thing? Someone from South America or Afghanistan who has had their little farm seized by drug cartels for cocoa or poppy plantations, someone who's family have been threatened unless they work as drug mule, people who are kidnapped and forced to do these things or worse again, the thousands of people who are murdered every year, all so people can get high on the weekend for the laugh?

Are you not just as guilty of trafficking like the pimps who traffic girls? Kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me.

Obviously, like I said, that only applies to those escorts who indulge in recreational drug use and isn't intended to offend those who have never touched drugs.

the issue of sex trafficking is dubious enough without trying to staple it
to the illicit drug industry. all trafficking is unacceptable (most of it is for cheap labour)

secondly, most of ireland's drugs are grown here in the republic. you think you're going to 'stop' drugs?

[Lilian]

As said before , escorts and drugs should have is own thread , but is not irrelevant to trafficked escorts . Trafficked escorts might be taking something to make the work more bareble me thinks !

And again , if something is iffy about a lady , walk away , no matter if one thinks she might be forced to do the job or if a lady seems to be under any influence of drugs or alcohol , it puts her in a state where she is not clear minded and vunerable !

[JAMESCORK]

I have met a lot of ladies in this industry face to face and have first hand experience with ladies who have been trafficked , also via my membership with Hydra ( organisation for Prostitutes ) , so I do have inside stories !

What makes you think Ireland/NorthenIreland is an exception to all other countries batteling this terrible trade ?
Cause you havent met ladies who through themselfs to your feets begging to be rescued ? Come on get real here !
If you havent met a trafficked lady yet , congrates .

And yes , profiles have been reported , not only via Sams link and people have been arrested down to this reports !
You will hardly find an escort who was involved in bringing down tafficker/ criminals in this trade , stand up and raise her hand to tell you all about it , cause you demand evidence , thats dangerouse , why do you think those people can be reported anonymus !

We all know it exists , but playing it down and /or denying it , doesnt make it go away !

Oh and I am a foreign non-native speaker who has no problems to voice my opinion loud and clear ...

You have a higher chance to encounter a trafficked lady by seeing an foreign , young , lady who speaks hardly any english , then meeting a native speaker or a foreign lady with fluent english !

Let’s get one thing straight at the outset here Lillian, we are both on the same side with regards to the abhorrence of trafficked/coerced prostitution. I really don’t want to contest who knows more or who has more valued experiences in this. Isn’t it better we share experiences rather than contest them, so I apologise when I suggest you may not have not face to face experiences. I am just putting forward mine. There is no question that trafficking exists, but I feel the important issue here is the scale of same needs to be quantified, lest we lose he run of ourselves and end up scaremongering.

These issues have been raised many times here before, and discussed at length, and it always seems to come down to the suggestion that to visit agency girls is discouraged. For a reader of these forums who may be not very well informed, this is a wrong and misleading suggestion. In the majority of cases agency girls are agency girl because they do not have the language skills nor the local knowledge to go it alone. They need to be helped. It has been put forward that caution should be exercised if the escort does not answer her own phone or does not speak fluent English. Certainly exercise caution, but to advise a boycott is unfair.

As we well know, most, if not all foreign girls start with agency. Some like it this way. Others move to be Indie when they feel comfortable doing so, and this is great. So rather than tarring all foreign escorts with no English with the same brush, why cant we say that visiting agency girls is ok, but please keep your eyes open, and hopefully try and defuse the sigma that exists.

[Rachel Divine]

If they say visiting agency escorts is okay ,customers will use them with more confidence and some escorts do not want that to happen .

Are soo many profiles with fake pictures, review system closed and those ladies still get work, because clients pay them a visit..

If they dont read a simple information on the website, how can we ask them to be careful and/or report a possible trafficking case?!

As long men dont do their part of the game not much we can do ..maybe keep moaning on the boards about it..

[Lilian]

Let’s get one thing straight at the outset here Lillian, we are both on the same side with regards to the abhorrence of trafficked/coerced prostitution. I really don’t want to contest who knows more or who has more valued experiences in this. Isn’t it better we share experiences rather than contest them, so I apologise when I suggest you may not have not face to face experiences. I am just putting forward mine. There is no question that trafficking exists, but I feel the important issue here is the scale of same needs to be quantified, lest we lose he run of ourselves and end up scaremongering.

These issues have been raised many times here before, and discussed at length, and it always seems to come down to the suggestion that to visit agency girls is discouraged. For a reader of these forums who may be not very well informed, this is a wrong and misleading suggestion. In the majority of cases agency girls are agency girl because they do not have the language skills nor the local knowledge to go it alone. They need to be helped. It has been put forward that caution should be exercised if the escort does not answer her own phone or does not speak fluent English. Certainly exercise caution, but to advise a boycott is unfair.

As we well know, most, if not all foreign girls start with agency. Some like it this way. Others move to be Indie when they feel comfortable doing so, and this is great. So rather than tarring all foreign escorts with no English with the same brush, why cant we say that visiting agency girls is ok, but please keep your eyes open, and hopefully try and defuse the sigma that exists.

I agree with you , partly .
I am just voicing my opinions and experience here as well and I am well aware that some people dont like it .

No problem so far , the problem occures when agencies are portrait in general as ok , which is sadly not the case !

So excuse me when I am saying ladies with none or barely english are more likly to be trafficked Escorts and that Agency Escorts should be eyed with cautions , since agencies here are not regulated and controlled as in other countries , which makes it more likely that they " employ " trafficked escorts or are traffickers themselfs !

Its a free choice who guys visit or not , but as mentioned before , some guys dont have the knowledge how this industry works behind the scenes and should be informed of the possible dangers .
Its a kind of risk accesment ,

a)I can buy a camera in an aproved well known internetpage and be a happy shopper

b)I can buy it from an unknown internetpage where I have no idea what the source is and take the risk to loose my money or get a faulty/counterfit product

c) I can buy from an unknown internetpage and might be lucky and are a very happy shopper !

I know its a limping example and I dont mean to compare escorts with products to be bought ,but it sums it up about the willingness to take a risk !

The stigma will remain as long as every Paul or Paula can open an Agency get a couple of phones , puts an ad up and gets some girls working ! How are we suppose to distinguish between good or bad ?

[JAMESCORK]

I agree with you , partly .
I am just voicing my opinions and experience here as well and I am well aware that some people dont like it .

No problem so far , the problem occures when agencies are portrait in general as ok , which is sadly not the case !

So excuse me when I am saying ladies with none or barely english are more likly to be trafficked Escorts and that Agency Escorts should be eyed with cautions , since agencies here are not regulated and controlled as in other countries , which makes it more likely that they " employ " trafficked escorts or are traffickers themselfs !

Its a free choice who guys visit or not , but as mentioned before , some guys dont have the knowledge how this industry works behind the scenes and should be informed of the possible dangers .
Its a kind of risk accesment ,

a)I can buy a camera in an aproved well known internetpage and be a happy shopper

b)I can buy it from an unknown internetpage where I have no idea what the source is and take the risk to loose my money or get a faulty/counterfit product

c) I can buy from an unknown internetpage and might be lucky and are a very happy shopper !

I know its a limping example and I dont mean to compare escorts with products to be bought ,but it sums it up about the willingness to take a risk !

The stigma will remain as long as every Paul or Paula can open an Agency get a couple of phones , puts an ad up and gets some girls working ! How are we suppose to distinguish between good or bad ?

I like your analogy Lillian.... but please allow me to add this.

The independent girl is the imindependent.com... Direct cummunication with the seller.

The agency girl is more like eBay. You do not communicate directly with the seller but through an agent that through thousands of happy customers has gained confidence and trust. The product is the original and just as good. Sure there have been dome horror stories about shopping on eBay but they are far and few between. Bear in mind also that in this business the purchaser has the ability to make sure the goods are kosher and not dodgy before he hands over money. Again I know it's terrible to compare an escort to a product on sale but it's just to make an analogy.

You correct when you say the stigma will never be removed so long as Paul and Paula are allowed to set up an agency willy nilly. So maybe the solution is rather than criminalizing the client to fight trafficking maybe we should instead legalize and control the Agency. Seems to make better sense.

[Lilian]

I like your analogy Lillian.... but please allow me to add this.

The independent girl is the imindependent.com... Direct cummunication with the seller.

The agency girl is more like eBay. You do not communicate directly with the seller but through an agent that through thousands of happy customers has gained confidence and trust. The product is the original and just as good. Sure there have been dome horror stories about shopping on eBay but they are far and few between. Bear in mind also that in this business the purchaser has the ability to make sure the goods are kosher and not dodgy before he hands over money. Again I know it's terrible to compare an escort to a product on sale but it's just to make an analogy.

You correct when you say the stigma will never be removed so long as Paul and Paula are allowed to set up an agency willy nilly. So maybe the solution is rather than criminalizing the client to fight trafficking maybe we should instead legalize and control the Agency. Seems to make better sense.

Well Ebay that a good comparism for Agencies , some get lucky others not , I was burned a few times and never used them again , a lesson learned and not worth the risk ( like Agencies i.m.o.)
But how do you make shure the "Goods" /Escorts from an Agency ( sorry again for the comparism) are cosher , if you cant be certain the Agency is !
Moving in circles , hence legalise AND control the Agencies !
God I am agreeing with James Cork !

[samlad]

Well Ebay that a good comparism for Agencies , some get lucky others not , I was burned a few times and never used them again , a lesson learned and not worth the risk ( like Agencies i.m.o.)
But how do you make shure the "Goods" /Escorts from an Agency ( sorry again for the comparism) are cosher , if you cant be certain the Agency is !
Moving in circles , hence legalise AND control the Agencies !
God I am agreeing with James Cork !

It would be ideal if agencies were legalised, but then again, if they were, I would wonder how long it would take the public to accept them once they were legal.