Spotlight programme tomorrow night

[nitram]

The link is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_27_11_2012/

We will watch this in the E-I office this morning

Saldy Sam this player does not work in the Rep. of Ireland

[LaBelleThatcher]

Many years ago in Dublin there was a Garda Sargent called Lugs Brannigan, he was a fair but tough man and respected by all sides of the community including the criminals. His view was if we didn't have ladies serving the sexual needs of their clients there would be much more sex related crime in Ireland.
If any of the working girls (prostitutes they were called then) had a problem with a client or pimp they could walk into the Garda Station where he was based and ask to see him and he would do his best to sort it out for them.
Making the purchase of sex illegal is handing the industry to the criminal underworld to run Look at what Prohibition did in the US in the 20's.

My answer may not be popular in many quarters but I say Legalize Prostitution Now, it works in other European Countries, so why not here. This morning there are in excess of 800 escorts advertising their services on the island of Ireland and to my view most of them are independent and operating of their own free will. This bit will be unpopular TAX. If each escort generated €50 in tax revenue to the state per working day that would create 14.6 million Euros per year. So I say let those who object to legalizing paying for sex pay this money into the Exchequer and then I'll listen to their views. At a time when the government are set to wield the axe in more cuts which will affect those who are already hurting and will make them hurt more.
I ask this question Why would a Minister for Finance ignore a revenue stream which is worth millions to this struggling economy! To put it in a different context the above figure of €14.6 million would pay for 160 full time nursing home beds for a full year on this island, that's looking after the most vulnerable in our society. Think about it! is that what we are allowing the minority holier than thou brigade to inflict upon us all.

BRILLIANT post...

Let's get practical...after all WHAT THE FUCK are Ruhama and ICI getting more than a million between them in state funds for ANYTHING let alone to pay for PR professionals to cook up propaganda against sex workers while sick and dying children are being cut back, and, in some cases *THEIR MUMS* are being driven to sell sex to make up the difference...

If they REALLY believe in what they are doing they will happily do it for free and at their own expense...like me, or Rachel, or Laura, or Heather or Ebony...because we couldn't POSSIBLY be better people than they are, could we?

(OI!!! Sam...need a :HARD STARE: smiley here! PRONTO!!!)

So first thing, let's get all that wasted funding deployed where it will do real good for the innocent and truly desperate...THEN let us see how many of 'em can even be BOTHERED to "Turn Off the Red light" if they aren't getting a small fortune out of it.

I also think that decriminalising and taxing sex work could for example, take any threat to pensioners travel passes OFF THE TABLE (Given the much quoted figure of €250 million the tax take could be closer to €40 million).

I knew a cop (as well as a few ladies) who knew Lugs Brannigan well...he was a character...common sense trumped the formalities EVERY STEP OF THE WAY...the women bought him a set of Waterford Crystal when he retired (though god knows what they thought he would do with it!)

Have you ever discovered a little piece of software called "expat shield"? Ads are a bit of a nuisance, but you can "keep up".

[samlad]

BRILLIANT post...

Let's get practical...after all WHAT THE FUCK are Ruhama and ICI getting more than a million between them in state funds for ANYTHING let alone to pay for PR professionals to cook up propaganda against sex workers while sick and dying children are being cut back, and, in some cases *THEIR MUMS* are being driven to sell sex to make up the difference...

If they REALLY believe in what they are doing they will happily do it for free and at their own expense...like me, or Rachel, or Laura, or Heather or Ebony...because we couldn't POSSIBLY be better people than they are, could we?

(OI!!! Sam...need a :HARD STARE: smiley here! PRONTO!!!)

So first thing, let's get all that wasted funding deployed where it will do real good for the innocent and truly desperate...THEN let us see how many of 'em can even be BOTHERED to "Turn Off the Red light" if they aren't getting a small fortune out of it.

I also think that decriminalising and taxing sex work could for example, take any threat to pensioners travel passes OFF THE TABLE (Given the much quoted figure of €250 million the tax take could be closer to €40 million).

I knew a cop (as well as a few ladies) who knew Lugs Brannigan well...he was a character...common sense trumped the formalities EVERY STEP OF THE WAY...the women bought him a set of Waterford Crystal when he retired (though god knows what they thought he would do with it!)

Have you ever discovered a little piece of software called "expat shield"? Ads are a bit of a nuisance, but you can "keep up".

Christopher Walken's yer maun:

[samlad]

Okay, Nicole, Martin and I have just watched this documentary.

Big thanks to Darren and Laura Lee for your contributions Well done!

This was a very balanced documentary and gave both sides of the argument regarding the proposed legislation to make the purchase of sex illegal.

First of all, it is stated by presenter Simon Boazman that the sex industry in Northern Ireland generates around £25 million a year. Simon then demonstrates how easy it is to contact and locate a "prostitute" via the means of a particular website that advertises these services. He contacts an escort and is told to reach a nearby landmark. As he reaches the landmark, he contacts the escort again for her exact location, however they do not take it any further than that. The conversation was secretly recorded.

The BBC interviewed a former trafficked escort named Sarah, who shares her horror stories of how she was abducted and forced into the sex industry. It was very sad to hear about the things that happened to her; she was beaten on a regular basis, and when asked why, she told Simon, "For no reason. Because I look out of the window or if I miss my family." She states that all sex workers are victims of rape and that men don't care, that women are meat. She said that she wished to be dead, but they [pimps] won't kill her because she makes them money. They beat her to make her weaker and to create addiction. She would not eat or sleep. Sarah said that she would see 10-15 men in a typical day, and would have sex until she could not walk.

Laura Lee argued that making the purchase of sex illegal will NOT stop demand, that demand will NOT go away. She states that the law are targeting the wrong people, the clients that are paying for consensual sex, and that it is the traffickers that should be targeted. For victims such as Sarah, I completely agree with this. Laura feels that by incriminating the purchase of sex means that it will be harder for sex workers to choose their clients and it will be more difficult to ask for help.

Det. Supr. Philip Marshal agrees that the sex industry needs to be tackled, but he feels that arresting clients will merely take away significant resources away from the police from other areas, stating that this ..."may hamper resources to help victims of trafficking."

It is obvious to state that what happened to Sarah is completely shocking and inhumane. Lord Morrow argues that despite the arguments for Legislation Four (incriminating the purchase of sex), it is better to do something than nothing at all. He feels that there are current laws in place to prevent brothel keeping, having sex with forced prostitutes, etc. but that these laws are not preventing the issues, so it is time for a change. He says that part of the legislation will be to help sex workers that need help. He also feels that clients reassure themselves when purchasing sex by thinking, "I am not doing anything illegal", and he feels that by making the purchase of sex illegal, law abiding citizens will not have this form of cognitive dissonance and will refrain from breaking the law.

Maozman interviewed Darren, a person who regularly pays prostitutes for sex. When asked why he pays for sex, he states, "For the buzz" and that he can visit women of a high standard that he wouldn't normally see every day. When asked how it would affect his habits should the laws criminalise the purchase of sex, he simply said that he would still continue. He also added that he is not a criminal and that he sees independent escorts. Darren was challenged and was asked, 'how do you know if they are independent?', to which he replied, that he can tell by how happy they are. He was then asked if this was just blissful ignorance, and Darren replied, 'No, not from the site I use'.

Another victim of the sex industry was mother-of-one, Lucy who worked in Dublin. She claims that prostitution led to her having a drug addiction. She feels that the implication of Legislation Four would be a good thing, because sex work and trafficking go hand-in-hand, and that this would be 'cutting the head of the snake'. She states that trafficking is a slave trade (as does Morrow), that it the sex industry is "...a vile, sick and twisted world."

Boazman travels to Sweden to discuss how this legislation has helped tackle their trafficking issues. There are some mixed stories here too. Secret filming showed women hanging around on the streets of Sweden ready to work. An interview with an off camera prostitute revealed that it has reduced a negligible number of clients and that income from prostitution has dropped, but the industry is still thriving. She said that if men want sex, they will find sex. Boazman then went along with Swedish police from the Prostitution Division to discuss how the current legislation is working. A police officer took Boazman to a secluded location where prostitutes have sex with clients; a graveyard. There was evidence of sexual activities, i.e. discarded used condoms. When Boazman asked why they have sex in a graveyard, he was told that many men are married and can't take the women home, and that these prostitutes have no place to work. Boazman was told that the although the law hasn't redacted prostitution, the number of girls on the street has reduced from about 60-70 down to 10-15 on an average night (slightly more at the weekend). When asked if policing this was successful or not, the police officer claimed that without their intervention, the number of prostitutes on the street would increase by 100 times.

Detective Inspector Kajsa Wahlberg claims that this legislation has been a success, claiming that buyers are now scared of getting caught, that this increases the values of the Swedish people and that trafficking and sex are linked because of supply and demand. She acknowledges that the law is not 100% effective, but says that it does work.

Pye Jakobsson, ex-prostitute and campaigner for Sex Workers Rights claims that there is no need for any legislation; there are laws currently in place to protect sex workers and prevent trafficking, such as physical abuse, and that the police should USE THEM. Criminologist Dr. Graham Ellison feels that the proposed legislation is not defined enough, that this legislation is not considering the forms of trafficking that are not sex related. It is only putting all sex workers in the same category of trafficked sex workers. Noelle Collins, Team Leader of the Belfast and Lisburn 'Women's Aid' branches posed the question, "Why would people not support this law?" adding, "There is no good argument."

[nitram]

Having watched the program last night I say congrats to Samlad for an accurate transcription of the events portrayed therein.


TO LaBell Tatcher Thank you for your kind remarks.

As to Sargent Brannigan The Waterford Crystal which Dublin's Prostitutes presented him with marking his retirement (in the early 80's) took pride of place in his home as it was a tribute of thanks from the ordinary decent women who worked Dublin's streets as prostitutes. After his death his son inherited the crystal and he treasures it symbolized the decent, caring, understanding man (and Garda Sargent) that was his father.

[Lilian]

The whole discussion is turning in circles , what is more important morals , religiouse believes or economics !?
Some people will always look at us WG as under-humans , not realising that behind all the propaganda are real people with thousands of different reasons why to do this job on free will !
Making it more difficult by law is only helping people who dont care about the law anyway !
The government bends to the moral/religiouse reasons and forgets that there are more simple meassures to assure WG are legal and working on free will ! They forget that they are ignoring a big source of income by tax !
Example : Germany has about 400,000 professional prostitutes, official figures . In 2002, new legislation allowed prostitutes to advertise and to enter into formal labor contracts or become selfemployed . It opened the way for them to obtain health insurance f.i. , previously refused if they listed their true profession.
Annual revenues are about 14 billion euros ($18 billion), according to an estimate by the Verdi services union. Taxes on prostitution are an important source of income for some cities.

It makes it easier to live a "normal" life as a prostitute , like banks , healthinsurance and other things one needs a statement of income for .

Why not monitore the adverts coming up daily and pay a social visit to make shure everything is in order with the lady advertising ?!
Shurely they can manage with this lowbudget meassure ?
It drives me up the tree that the government ignores all the people relieng on escorts to work and spend money , hotels , transport , papers , internetpages , banks a.s.o. !
Some cities in Germany rely heavely on the money generated by us , they even create escortfriendly services with late hour GPs for instance or sellers catering for escorts specificly !

Throughout my visits here I have spoken to a few officers and all of them think it needs to be lergalised and would make their job easier ...

[samlad]

A few things I got out of this documentary:

♦ If the sex industry is generating £25 million a year, why not legalise it and benefit from the taxes?

♦ Cases like Sarah and Lucy should not be ignored. The problem lies with organised trafficking, and after watching the documentary, 'Nefarious: Merchant of Souls' with Patricia and Nicole over the weekend, we learned several things; a) hundreds and thousands of pounds are invested in NGOs to help victims out of sex work, but nearly all of these people return to it; b) organised traffickers have the help of government officials, such as border patrol and police from countries such as Cambodia, Romania and Russia, so these need to be tackled, not the people that purchase sex.

♦ There is still too much ambiguity when it comes to the statistics of the Swedish legislation of incriminating clients for purchasing sex, and this is obviously keeping women on the streets where they are more prone to danger because they cannot work indoors.

♦ Will crimes emerge elsewhere if resources are being focused on targeting and convicting clients who wish to purchase sex?

♦ Legislation Four seems to be a big 'patch over' law that tars all sex workers with the 'victim brush' when in many cases, this is taking the bread and butter away from willing, independent sex workers, incriminating men for engaging in consensual sex who would be treated no better than rapists. Utilising the current laws that are already in place should be reconsidered rather than dropping an A-bomb on the industry.

♦ With people such as Darren saying that they will still continue to pay for sex, it is apparent, just as Laura Lee states, that making the purchasing of sex illegal will not stop that demand.

♦ I strongly believe that this is more of a moral issue than a practical one. This was confirmed for me when Kajsa Wahlberg commented that the values of the Swedish people had increased. On the 'Nefarious' documentary, she also said that having sex with a prostitute is just a man 'masturbating inside a woman', so perhaps she has a biased, feministic viewpoint on the sex industry?

[Lilian]

A few things I got out of this documentary:

♦ If the sex industry is generating £25 million a year, why not legalise it and benefit from the taxes?

Good question , I guess the answer is obviouse , they belive we are ALL criminals and a good goverment cant benifit from crime .

♦ Cases like Sarah and Lucy should not be ignored. The problem lies with organised trafficking, and after watching the documentary, 'Nefarious: Merchant of Souls' with Patricia and Nicole over the weekend, we learned several things; a) hundreds and thousands of pounds are invested in NGOs to help victims out of sex work, but nearly all of these people return to it; b) organised traffickers have the help of government officials, such as border patrol and police from countries such as Cambodia, Romania and Russia, so these need to be tackled, not the people that purchase sex.

The answer lays in a different approach . People will always find a way in , its how its dealt with here that makes the difference !

♦ There is still too much ambiguity when it comes to the statistics of the Swedish legislation of incriminating clients for purchasing sex, and this is obviously keeping women on the streets where they are more prone to danger because they cannot work indoors.

Maybee its to encourage ladies to be to scared to work on the streets , neglecting the fact that the girls will work under any circumstance !

♦ Will crimes emerge elsewhere if resources are being focused on targeting and convicting clients who wish to purchase sex?

Defenitly , see blackmailing of clients , criminals will find a way to benefit from it ! And resources will be lost at other points .

♦ Legislation Four seems to be a big 'patch over' law that tars all sex workers with the 'victim brush' when in many cases, this is taking the bread and butter away from willing, independent sex workers, incriminating men for engaging in consensual sex who would be treated no better than rapists. Utilising the current laws that are already in place should be reconsidered rather than dropping an A-bomb on the industry.

I think the problem lays in the fact that independent escorts are more reluctant to come forward to show the public another side of escorting , students , housewifes and sideworkers ! So the public believes in the picture drawn about escorts beeing " victims " !

♦ With people such as Darren saying that they will still continue to pay for sex, it is apparent, just as Laura Lee states, that making the purchasing of sex illegal will not stop that demand.

Escorting will never stop and has always existed , no matter what , it just adapts !

I liked the report , but I guess its time for bigger guns to show the real face of escorting to the average person to change public opinions ! Has anybody ever consulted the German or Netherlands organisation for assistance ? They shurely knew how they did it ...

[samlad]

Escorting will never stop and has always existed , no matter what , it just adapts !

I liked the report , but I guess its time for bigger guns to show the real face of escorting to the average person to change public opinions ! Has anybody ever consulted the German or Netherlands organisation for assistance ? They shurely knew how they did it ...

Throughout history there has always been prostitution. I don't know why society cannot just accept it?

[Stella]

Sam is there any other link for the programme, as this link not working in ROI!
Thanks