Stubborn

[konus]

My understanding is that the primary reason for his dismissal was because he was verbally aggressive towards the then female principal at a school function?

It’s true that there are no winners, it really is just such an insane situation we have Judge Nolan there giving suspended sentences to padeophiles and guys who have committed violent assaults, and Enoch Burke is there in prison for God knows how long at this stage and it all by his own choice?!?!?

Ok, so he won’t purge his contempt of Court but REAL criminals are getting suspended sentences coz prison spaces are limited, where is the common sence here, it’s costing the taxpayer daily to keep him in Mountjoy, he should be kicked out to feck, what’s he going to do, go and stand at the school for the rest of his life?

The Mum did a right job on her kids, they were all home schooled, kept away from society, raised with extremist views so now she has a bunch of highly intelligent but completely unemployable social outcasts. One bad apple to ruin the cart.

I think the whole thing kicked off when a student in the school didn't want to be recognised as male or female, and he refused to refer to the student as 'they' ... what a mad world we are becoming !!!

[StevB]

I think the whole thing kicked off when a student in the school didn't want to be recognised as male or female, and he refused to refer to the student as 'they' ... what a mad world we are becoming !!!

"Some people refuse to use the pronoun they when referring to individuals on the basis that it is primarily a plural pronoun instead of a singular pronoun." I think I would be of that persuasion, for grammar Nazi reasons, if nothing else.

English does not have a gender-neutral singular pronoun so "they" is used, but it is plural and sounds weird to a native English speaker.

[StevB]

Enoch Burke case needs to be sorted out by a competent social-worker, not the courts.
Problem is, "competent social-worker"? Where could we find one of them?

[JennyIrish]

"Some people refuse to use the pronoun they when referring to individuals on the basis that it is primarily a plural pronoun instead of a singular pronoun." I think I would be of that persuasion, for grammar Nazi reasons, if nothing else.

English does not have a gender-neutral singular pronoun so "they" is used, but it is plural and sounds weird to a native English speaker.

I absolutely agree with this! I’m trying to be more broad minded and not so old fashioned when it comes to all this non binary, multi gender stuff, but I wouldn’t agree to change my understanding of the English language to please someone else!

Imagine, as a teacher, How difficult that would be? You would really have to concentrate just to form a sentence:

“Where is Johnny? Has anyone seen them? Did they hand up their project . . . “

Agggghhh!!!

A friend who now teachers in the all girls school that I attended told me that staff cannot refer to the class as “girls listen up” or even “lads will ye pay attention” as was always done to be respectful to anyone who may be battling gender identity.

When I hear things like that I just take a deep breath and remind myself that I have to make an effort to be more understanding. . .

[Harry68]

Enoch Burke case needs to be sorted out by a competent social-worker, not the courts.
Problem is, "competent social-worker"? Where could we find one of them?

I’m not sure what a social worker can contribute here. If dealing with rational actors I would suggest mediation but the Burkes are not rational actors.

Someone mentioned them being on the spectrum. I’ve a lot of personal experience in the area and regular interactions with people in the sector professionally. The Burkes come up quite a bit amongst professionals in the area when talking socially. Most preface their remarks by saying they couldn’t state definitively without meeting in person but I think the split is fairly even as to whether they are or not significantly neurodivergent. A senior psychiatrist who is the sister of my closest friend told me they had all the lack of social skills common in high functioning people on the spectrum but that they seemed to have almost no empathy at all for anyone outside their circle that would be considered unusual.

It’s hard to see how this ends. Its a horrible waste of state resources, court time and whether they realise or not is destroying the Burke children.

[JennyIrish]

I’m not sure what a social worker can contribute here. If dealing with rational actors I would suggest mediation but the Burkes are not rational actors.

Someone mentioned them being on the spectrum. I’ve a lot of personal experience in the area and regular interactions with people in the sector professionally. The Burkes come up quite a bit amongst professionals in the area when talking socially. Most preface their remarks by saying they couldn’t state definitively without meeting in person but I think the split is fairly even as to whether they are or not significantly neurodivergent. A senior psychiatrist who is the sister of my closest friend told me they had all the lack of social skills common in high functioning people on the spectrum but that they seemed to have almost no empathy at all for anyone outside their circle that would be considered unusual.

It’s hard to see how this ends. Its a horrible waste of state resources, court time and whether they realise or not is destroying the Burke children.

But is that a mental health issue or just the result of how they were raised? The were home schooled by the Mum, kept away from society, taught that others are “unGodly” and will be going to hell and that their devotion to God, to the 10 commandments, etc is the correct way to live, hence the social awkwardness and lack of empathy to anyone outside their circle?

This has been so ingrained in them since childhood, can their extremist views ever be changed at this stage? I Think it’s sad because they are clearly intelligent people, and let’s admit it the siblings Are good looking and always immaculately groomed, but their mother has raised them to be unemployable, And who on earth would ever enter into a relationship with any of them? They seem to be so extreme in their views that there probably would be no one good enough for them anyway.

So their mother has also potentially robbed them of the chance of ever getting married or having a family of their own. It’s sad, really.

[TonyB]

I think we have to respect his conviction in his own beliefs, if we agree with him or don't.
Personally I agree with him, but I also believe once sacked he should just move on.
They're only making a martyr of him in his mind and the mind of some others so feeding his focus.

The man shouldn't be jailed. He's taking up a space for a real criminal, but it's obvious the courts aren't interested in jailimg real criminality

[Harry68]

Autism isn’t generally a mental health issue per se unless presenting with an intellectual disability or something else. Plenty of people live normal lives living on the spectrum. Simon Harris brother Adam is a good example of a high functioning person in the spectrum. If you ever see him speak to take an example he often does so in socks ot bare feet.

With the Burkes it’s fair to say as you do that they are the product of nurture but it may have found fertile soil in their nature if that makes sense. When you lean into an existing predisposition it is easier to get results for both better or worse. It’s why heavy drug use in people with existing mental health issues is so damaging. The case of the poor woman beheaded by her husband is a case in point. History of severe mental illness exacerbated by heavy cannabis use.

I have some small sympathy for them. They never had a chance of a normal life. Notwithstanding that they’ve acted with a total disregard for societal and legal norms and have to face the consequences. The fact that there is some terrible inconsistencies in sentencing including some howlers in the last few weeks doesn’t make their actions any less justified. It just means many judges are clueless.

[Harry68]

I think we have to respect his conviction in his own beliefs, if we agree with him or don't.
Personally I agree with him, but I also believe once sacked he should just move on.
They're only making a martyr of him in his mind and the mind of some others so feeding his focus.

The man shouldn't be jailed. He's taking up a space for a real criminal, but it's obvious the courts aren't interested in jailimg real criminality

Why should we respect his conviction in his own beliefs? If that is an argument then shouldn’t we respect the guys who strap on a suicide vest and blow themselves and dozens of other innocents. Their beliefs are no less sincere.

There are far too many people out there convinced of the righteousness of their own beliefs and damn everyone else. Their version of God is frankly f@@@@ing horrible. No empathy. My way or the highway. When the rapture arrives it will be them only.

[AmyTantraMassage]

I absolutely agree with this! I’m trying to be more broad minded and not so old fashioned when it comes to all this non binary, multi gender stuff, but I wouldn’t agree to change my understanding of the English language to please someone else!

Imagine, as a teacher, How difficult that would be? You would really have to concentrate just to form a sentence:

“Where is Johnny? Has anyone seen them? Did they hand up their project . . . “

Agggghhh!!!

A friend who now teachers in the all girls school that I attended told me that staff cannot refer to the class as “girls listen up” or even “lads will ye pay attention” as was always done to be respectful to anyone who may be battling gender identity.

When I hear things like that I just take a deep breath and remind myself that I have to make an effort to be more understanding. . .

Imagine the poor biology teachers. Or science in primary school. If this was America, being sued left, right and centre for calling a clueless child tje wrong pronoun coz their parent/s wanna cause unhealable trauma down the line.