Trafficking.

[warmcome]

Trafficking, this is a serious and emotive term, but just
saying it a few times is not evidence of how common it is.

The general public don't visit this site or go and meet escorts
so they will believe what is told to them, regardless of the truth
or motives of the agency projecting that view.

In The Journal poll thread, i read a poster to complain that women
were forced to see random, deficient men?

Watch the video below, voice tone, body language leads me
to question the real motives of the TORL campaign. Toward the
end the woman who should be concerned with immigrants says
"this is what we feel fuels sex trafficking."

YouTube - Human Trafficking in Ireland

[Bodkin]

Trafficking, this is a serious and emotive term, but just
saying it a few times is not evidence of how common it is.

The general public don't visit this site or go and meet escorts
so they will believe what is told to them, regardless of the truth
or motives of the agency projecting that view.

In The Journal poll thread, i read a poster to complain that women
were forced to see random, deficient men?

Watch the video below, voice tone, body language leads me
to question the real motives of the TORL campaign. Toward the
end the woman who should be concerned with immigrants says
"this is what we feel fuels sex trafficking."

YouTube - Human Trafficking in Ireland

It is insane, though not surprising, that we now have to fight for basic rights and legal protection of people working in the sex industry in this country. However given that we have this fight on our hands it's imperative that we don't bloody lose it!

One area where we, the turn off the blue light side of the "debate," are at risk of tripping ourselves up is trying to pretend that everything is rosy in the garden and that all we need is for independent escorts to be free to operate with the full protection of the law. There is more to it than that. There are evil bastards exploiting poor people, there always have been, and there always will be.

Trafficking is a problem, but it is classic dogmatic ultra-rightwing conservative knee-jerk self-promoting sanctimonious catholic propoganda to claim that *every* escort in Ireland is a victim of trafficking. Sadly, as the OP points out, the average Joe will buy this bullshit as there appear to be a terrifying number of people who actually believe what they read in the media. Tragic but true.

As ever, this mess is complex. It is not black & white. There are for example independent workers here who were in the past trafficked and have managed to work their way out of the situation and get to a point where they are operating on their own and making a decent living. The proposed laws will undo all the hard and dangerous work that such good people have done to improve their lives.

The real problem with "Trafficking" as a concept is that it is a media label -- a tabloid byword for all that is grotty & miserable & guaranteed to sell newspapers. We will have a hell of a time fighting public perception (or rather public misconceptions) as it is without making matters worse for ourselves by trying to deny the real problems.

If we truly want the Turn off the blue light campaign to succeed we must be clear, coherent, articulate, and mature in our debate. Our stance must be informed and honest. If we come across as a rabble of kinksters just trying to maintain the status quo, we will written off as sexual degenerates being used as pawns of the organised crime vested interests who "control" the sex industry in Ireland. That would be a disaster for all of us.

[Mioux]

no, the real problem with trafficking is that is exists. very much so.

[Bodkin]

no, the real problem with trafficking is that is exists. very much so.

Exactly yes. You are entirely right. The very problem with the TOTRL campaign is that it does not give centre stage to the most informed voice in this issue: the escorts who are actively working in Ireland. The reason they do not to have the input of active escorts is that it does not suit their objectives.

Trafficking is abhorrent and sickening. We on the TOTBL side need to take the lead in the anti-trafficking campaign, which is what is really needed here.

[Bruno69]

Excellent post Bodkin

[Rayden]

With regards to trafficking I dont know too much on the subject, as such I am always particularly interested in an escort's opinion over others. I figure they are bound to have a better idea.

[Bodkin]

With regards to trafficking I dont know too much on the subject, as such I am always particularly interested in an escort's opinion over others. I figure they are bound to have a better idea.

Of course it is the escorts that should inform us all on this, inform the entire debate as they are the only ones who really know - not these moral guardians who are once again telling us what to think & how we may live.

[Mioux]

but trafficking does exist.
I can't bear to read that wall of text, sorry.
over 200 women were rescued last year from the very places you doubt exist.
Grow up, trafficking is a real and lasting problem. It IS slavery. it DOES exist, it seems like you are the one who doesn't want to see the truth...

[hotsophie]

I agree with Mioux that sex trafficking does exist and agree that it is an abomination for this to be allowed to happen, but i feel after reading so many articles that have been written recently that TORL are trying to make out that it is only very few who are doing the job of there own will, they were both asked(gillian and gillian) if they had any experience in this area, NO THEY DON'T, running "studies" of the sex industry does not give any one experience enough to say whether people have been trafficked or not.

A few years ago i ran a study looking at poverty in the town ships in Capetown and came up with 80% were living in poverty i found this disturbing and went over and stayed in a township called Kyleisha in a shanty house that is recognized as the smallest hotel in the world, having lived there for a period of three months, as that is all my tourist visa would let me do, i found that was totally wrong. The majority of these people have good jobs and are well paid, but because this is where they have always lived it is home to them and they don't want to leave, some of course are still living in poverty but that is through the aids epidemic out there and through parents of young children dying through this awful disease. It turned out that just under 40% were living hand to mouth. I know this is still high but it was much less than my original study proved.

Now my thought is if these people want to run studies of the sex industry they should enter it, work if only for a few weeks to see that we aren't all trafficked and the majority of men we see are gentlemen, its fine for an outsider to have views but to have a totally closed mind as to what it is about just means these people are still stuck in the 19th century.

[Bruno69]

My opinion is that both sides have a blinkered view of each other.

I believe trafficking/coercion is still a genuine problem in this country, more than others might like to think. I also firmly believe there is a legitimate and relatively safe way to work in this industry as is practiced by many independent escorts on this site.

As a client I also believe it is my right to be free to pay for sex and companionship with a woman who is working as a sex worker of her own free will.

That is where I stand and I have some sympathy with both sides of this debate.

Is there any chance that representatives of both TORL and TOBL could meet and talk? It may soften each others opinion on the other. Even if this happened to a small degree, I believe it would benefit the debate greatly.