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  1. #1
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    A federal judge in the U.S. has said she will issue an order to stop the military's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, after she declared it "unconstitutional".

    U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips ruled that the prohibition on openly gay military service members was unconstitutional because it violates the First and Fifth Amendment rights of gays and lesbians.


    Does it matter if you are gay in the military?, how straight do you need to be to pull a trigger?


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    Last edited by Gaylord; 10-09-10 at 17:51.
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    Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. The presence in the military environment of persons who engage in homosexual conduct or who, by their statements, demonstrate a propensity to engage in homosexual conduct, seriously impairs the accomplishment of the military mission. The presence of such members adversely affects the ability of the armed forces to maintain discipline, good order, and morale; to foster mutual trust and confidence among service members; to ensure the integrity of the system of rank and command; to facilitate assignment and worldwide deployment of service members who frequently must live and work in close conditions affording minimal privacy; to recruit and retain members of the armed forces; to maintain the public acceptability of military service; and to prevent breaches of security.
    DOD Directive 1332.14 (Enlisted Administrative Separations), January, 1981):

    Example

    USS Iowa turret explosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    USS Iowa turret explosion


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas View Post
    Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. The presence in the military environment of persons who engage in homosexual conduct or who, by their statements, demonstrate a propensity to engage in homosexual conduct, seriously impairs the accomplishment of the military mission. The presence of such members adversely affects the ability of the armed forces to maintain discipline, good order, and morale; to foster mutual trust and confidence among service members; to ensure the integrity of the system of rank and command; to facilitate assignment and worldwide deployment of service members who frequently must live and work in close conditions affording minimal privacy; to recruit and retain members of the armed forces; to maintain the public acceptability of military service; and to prevent breaches of security.
    DOD Directive 1332.14 (Enlisted Administrative Separations), January, 1981):

    Example

    USS Iowa turret explosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    USS Iowa turret explosion

    Bollicks

    Nothing wrong with a gay man in the army. What does who you sleep with have to do with how you behave.
    Does being agy mean you

    Dont follow orders
    Dont fit in with your ither officers
    Cant have a will to fight

    Look at some of teh successful Generals of the past like Alexander the great
    They were gay or at least had homosexual tendencies
    Alaxander actually made his men have sex with each other because tehn they would die for each other
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    Your spelling and grammar are sub-par.
    Have you ever served in a combat unit?
    I guess the answer is no.
    To maximize the chances of success, the military must defeat the paralyzing effects of fear on the soldier and what the famous Prussian theorist Clausewitz called the "fog of uncertainty." This they do by means of an ethos that stresses morale, discipline, order and cohesion. Anything that threatens the non-sexual bonding that lies at the heart of cohesion adversely affects morale, disciple and order, generating friction. Service by homosexuals poses such a threat, that homosexuality is incompatible with service because it undermines the ethos upon which success depends. Winning wars is the imperative. Indeed, it is the only reason for a society to maintain a military. War is terror and confusion. War is characterized by death, chance, uncertainty and friction. The ethos constitutes an response to these factors—an attempt to defeat their impact. Accordingly, the military stresses virtues such as , physical and moral courage, a sense of honor and duty, discipline, a professional code of conduct, and loyalty. It places a premium on such factors as unit cohesion and morale.
    The key of the military ethos is what the Greeks called philia—friendship, comradeship Philia, the bond among disparate individuals who have nothing in common but facing death and terror together, is the source of the unit cohesion that most research has shown to be critical to battlefield success. Philia depends on fairness and the absence of favoritism. Favoritism and double standards are deadly to philia and its associated phenomena—cohesion, morale and discipline—are absolutely critical to the success of a military organization. The presence of homosexuals in the close confines of ships or military units opens the possibility that eros—which unlike philia is sexual, and therefore individual and exclusive—will be unleashed into the environment. Eros manifests itself as sexual competition, protectiveness and favoritism, all of which undermine the nonsexual bonding essential to unit cohesion, good order, discipline and morale. As Sen. James Webb (D., Va.), who was awarded the Navy Cross for valor as a Marine officer in Vietnam, wrote in the Weekly Standard in 1997, "There is no greater or more natural bias than that of an individual toward a beloved. And few emotions are more powerful, or more distracting, than those surrounding the pursuit of, competition for, or the breaking off of amorous relationships."

    The destructive impact of such relationships on unit cohesion can be denied only by ideologues.

    Does a superior order his or her beloved into danger?
    If he or she demonstrates favoritism, what is the consequence for unit morale and discipline?
    What happens when jealousy rears its head?

    These are questions of life and death, and they help to explain why homosexuality and homosexual behavior traditionally have been considered incompatible with military service.
    The reason for excluding open homosexuals from the military has nothing to do with equal rights or freedom of expression. The primary consideration must be military effectiveness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texas View Post
    Your spelling and grammar are sub-par.
    Have you ever served in a combat unit?
    I guess the answer is no.
    To maximize the chances of success, the military must defeat the paralyzing effects of fear on the soldier and what the famous Prussian theorist Clausewitz called the "fog of uncertainty." This they do by means of an ethos that stresses morale, discipline, order and cohesion. Anything that threatens the non-sexual bonding that lies at the heart of cohesion adversely affects morale, disciple and order, generating friction. Service by homosexuals poses such a threat, that homosexuality is incompatible with service because it undermines the ethos upon which success depends. Winning wars is the imperative. Indeed, it is the only reason for a society to maintain a military. War is terror and confusion. War is characterized by death, chance, uncertainty and friction. The ethos constitutes an response to these factors—an attempt to defeat their impact. Accordingly, the military stresses virtues such as , physical and moral courage, a sense of honor and duty, discipline, a professional code of conduct, and loyalty. It places a premium on such factors as unit cohesion and morale.
    The key of the military ethos is what the Greeks called philia—friendship, comradeship Philia, the bond among disparate individuals who have nothing in common but facing death and terror together, is the source of the unit cohesion that most research has shown to be critical to battlefield success. Philia depends on fairness and the absence of favoritism. Favoritism and double standards are deadly to philia and its associated phenomena—cohesion, morale and discipline—are absolutely critical to the success of a military organization. The presence of homosexuals in the close confines of ships or military units opens the possibility that eros—which unlike philia is sexual, and therefore individual and exclusive—will be unleashed into the environment. Eros manifests itself as sexual competition, protectiveness and favoritism, all of which undermine the nonsexual bonding essential to unit cohesion, good order, discipline and morale. As Sen. James Webb (D., Va.), who was awarded the Navy Cross for valor as a Marine officer in Vietnam, wrote in the Weekly Standard in 1997, "There is no greater or more natural bias than that of an individual toward a beloved. And few emotions are more powerful, or more distracting, than those surrounding the pursuit of, competition for, or the breaking off of amorous relationships."

    The destructive impact of such relationships on unit cohesion can be denied only by ideologues.

    Does a superior order his or her beloved into danger?
    If he or she demonstrates favoritism, what is the consequence for unit morale and discipline?
    What happens when jealousy rears its head?

    These are questions of life and death, and they help to explain why homosexuality and homosexual behavior traditionally have been considered incompatible with military service.
    The reason for excluding open homosexuals from the military has nothing to do with equal rights or freedom of expression. The primary consideration must be military effectiveness.
    My spelling or typing skills do not effect the argument
    As for Combat No I have not fought but yes have been in military

    As for your long winded speech it wreeks of Homophobia
    Trying to take away the fear of the unknown of soliders-----------Tosh
    Trying to cohesivly construct a fighting unit - and this cannot be done with homosexuals------------Bollix
    Homosexuals cannot win wars-----------------what are you on?
    ccordingly, the military stresses virtues such as , physical and moral courage, a sense of honor and duty, discipline, a professional code of conduct, and loyalty. It places a premium on such factors as unit cohesion and morale. -----------Do you suggest that gays lack these virtues?


    Does a superior order his or her beloved into danger?
    If he or she demonstrates favoritism, what is the consequence for unit morale and discipline?
    What happens when jealousy rears its head? ----------------Does this mean taht women are not also allowed in the military?Are you still living in the 50s?


    The reason for excluding open homosexuals from the military has nothing to do with equal rights or freedom of expression. The primary consideration must be military effectiveness.


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    Quote Originally Posted by texas View Post
    Right so when an army fucks up they try and blame the easiest target gay soldiers
    Come Texes I assumed you be smarter than to be caught up in that homophobic nonsense
    Last edited by Doozer; 10-09-10 at 20:26.
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    I mean I have seen stories wherew straight soldiers fucked up too and many people died
    Were they secretly gay ?
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    Opinions of Military Personnel on Sexual Minorities in the Military
    ZOGBY INTERNATIONAL
    2006

    13. Do you agree or disagree with allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the
    military?
    Strongly Agree 9%
    Agree 17
    Neutral 32
    Agree 26%
    Disagree 16
    Strongly Disagree 21
    Not sure 5
    Disagree 37%
    Slightly more than one-in-three respondents (37%) disagree that gays should be
    allowed to serve openly in the military, while almost three-in-ten (28%) believe they
    should. Of those remaining, an almost equivalent amount holds a neutral opinion (32%),
    while just 5 percent are unsure.

    Table 3. Assumed Impact of Gay/Lesbian Presence on Unit Morale

    Personal morale Unit’s morale
    Very negative impact 9 15
    Somewhat negative impact 29 43
    Negative 38 58
    No impact 49 26
    Somewhat positive impact 1 --
    Very positive impact 2 2
    Positive 2 2
    Not sure 11 14

    http://www.palmcenter.org/files/acti...ogbyReport.pdf

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    Most US Marines don't want gay roommates: General - The Times of India

    Another General's view

    The top US Marine on Tuesday said most Marines would prefer not to share a room with gay comrades, despite plans by President Barack Obama to lift a ban on gays serving openly in the military.
    "I can tell you that an overwhelming majority would like not to be roomed with a person who is openly homosexual," Conway told a Pentagon press conference.

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