Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Michael Collins The Terrorist?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cuntflaps
    Posts
    8,253
    Reviews
    10

    Default Michael Collins The Terrorist?

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present for debate this snippet from today's Kevin Myers column in the Indo. In it he was referring to Brian Lenihan's address of the Collins commemoration, and drew comparisons with the actions of the modern IRA. I have highlighted the most likely contentious comment.



    "...Now our history is unlike any others, and I'm just telling you this as a simple truth: if you venerate Michael Collins, you must also venerate his methods, and central to these is the killing of unarmed men in front of their wives. Moreover, for all the minister's remarks about Collins's "success", the cause for which Collins introduced this policy -- a united Irish Republic -- is as far away today as it was when Collins's boys padded through Dublin streets, to shoot sleepy men in their pyjamas. And though his memorialists annually applaud Collins's acumen as Minister for Finance, the actual methods that he most enduringly bequeathed to Ireland were about bloodshed, not banking...."


    Discuss!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mousey View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, I present for debate this snippet from today's Kevin Myers column in the Indo. In it he was referring to Brian Lenihan's address of the Collins commemoration, and drew comparisons with the actions of the modern IRA. I have highlighted the most likely contentious comment.



    "...Now our history is unlike any others, and I'm just telling you this as a simple truth: if you venerate Michael Collins, you must also venerate his methods, and central to these is the killing of unarmed men in front of their wives. Moreover, for all the minister's remarks about Collins's "success", the cause for which Collins introduced this policy -- a united Irish Republic -- is as far away today as it was when Collins's boys padded through Dublin streets, to shoot sleepy men in their pyjamas. And though his memorialists annually applaud Collins's acumen as Minister for Finance, the actual methods that he most enduringly bequeathed to Ireland were about bloodshed, not banking...."


    Discuss!
    POBLACHT NA H EIREANN
    ___________________________
    THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT
    OF THE
    IRISH REPUBLIC
    TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

    Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

    We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the last three hundred years they have asserted it to arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

    The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

    Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

    We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God. Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, in humanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

    Signed on Behalf of the Provisional Government.

    Thomas J. Clarke,
    Sean Mac Diarmada, Thomas MacDonagh,
    P. H. Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt,
    James Connolly, Joseph Plunkett

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    14,555
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mousey View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, I present for debate this snippet from today's Kevin Myers column in the Indo. In it he was referring to Brian Lenihan's address of the Collins commemoration, and drew comparisons with the actions of the modern IRA. I have highlighted the most likely contentious comment.



    "...Now our history is unlike any others, and I'm just telling you this as a simple truth: if you venerate Michael Collins, you must also venerate his methods, and central to these is the killing of unarmed men in front of their wives. Moreover, for all the minister's remarks about Collins's "success", the cause for which Collins introduced this policy -- a united Irish Republic -- is as far away today as it was when Collins's boys padded through Dublin streets, to shoot sleepy men in their pyjamas. And though his memorialists annually applaud Collins's acumen as Minister for Finance, the actual methods that he most enduringly bequeathed to Ireland were about bloodshed, not banking...."


    Discuss!
    And what about the black and tans? Cromwell?

    Westside.
    Last edited by Westsidex; 24-08-10 at 21:08.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,395

    Default

    I would argue that terrorism is about terrorizing civilians, not people who are in the army or officials of the other side.

  5. #5

    Default

    Ahhhh the eternal debate what constitutes a terrorist.....

    Not there actions but the outcome of those actions and how they shape the people who now view them. The big man is a hero in our eyes because he free'd Ireland from english rule. If he had failed and the other side had won he would be view'd as a commitor of attrocitys. The same is can be said of many hero's, If we look at William Wallice from a objective point of view he was a murdering mad man, but he got the job done so he is a hero.

    But regardles of all that Collins killed intelagance/army officers and people ocupieing a country that they had no right to! So in my book hero!! They were given fair warning to get the f*^k out.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Jamie6699 For This Useful Post:

    dark-knight (24-08-10)

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Not fucking limerick anyway!!
    Posts
    2,054
    Reviews
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie6699 View Post
    Ahhhh the eternal debate what constitutes a terrorist.....

    Not there actions but the outcome of those actions and how they shape the people who now view them. The big man is a hero in our eyes because he free'd Ireland from english rule. If he had failed and the other side had won he would be view'd as a commitor of attrocitys. The same is can be said of many hero's, If we look at William Wallice from a objective point of view he was a murdering mad man, but he got the job done so he is a hero.

    But regardles of all that Collins killed intelagance/army officers and people ocupieing a country that they had no right to! So in my book hero!! They were given fair warning to get the f*^k out.
    William Wallace didn't get the job done.....they lost!

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by debest View Post
    William Wallace didn't get the job done.....they lost!
    Lol im not even going to get into that debate, Wallace won, scotland lost because of politicians.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    319
    Reviews
    12

    Default

    Didn't Winston Churchill giving the idea of mustard gassing the Kurds to Sadaam Hussein?
    Last edited by Fran Tick; 24-08-10 at 23:32.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,436
    Reviews
    13

    Default

    As a lover of history ..I would just like to point out to Kevin that the men assassinated in their beds where spies,and played a dirty war ,we fought back and beat them at their game. By eradicating them we removed the biggest curse on our struggle for freedom ie removing them removed the little shites who took the kings shilling who informed....
    I hate hisory discussed here ..we as a nation have moved on I kissed a proddie today lol let Myers slowly dissolve while wanking to the act of union
    a thousand kisses deep..

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ric Hardgear For This Useful Post:

    Jamie6699 (24-08-10), nicegirlsarenice (25-08-10)

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Not fucking limerick anyway!!
    Posts
    2,054
    Reviews
    31

    Default

    I wonder if this guy considers George Washington a terrorist? Collins and Richard Mulcahy basically invented modern guerilla warfare. Mulcahy doesn't really get the credit he deserves though. Maybe because he was on the anti-treaty side. Lloyd George labeled us terrorists because we were kicking ass and the British were no boy scouts either....that's for sure!

    The main point is in war PEOPLE DIE!!! It's no more admiral shooting a man in a trench than it is shooting a man coming out of church. Alot of the men Collins killed had to die and in my eyes he is a hero.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •