The EU are back to their old tricks

[Westsidex]

some good points there Luther, I'm glad someone else in this country has realised that most of the problems we currently face are due to personal greed and don't just point the finger at "The Man".

As for Smarty and his anti immigration Eastern European rant, I wonder if he was thinking about Irish escorts loosing money due to poor immigration as he was hooking up with Czech and Polish girls he met on this site?

So are you saying that yourself and luther both contributed to some of this through personal greed or is this comment reserved for everyone else?

Westside.

[monster_monster]

So are you saying that yourself and luther both contributed to some of this through personal greed or is this comment reserved for everyone else?

Westside.

of course it's both our fault, it's everyone's fault, just look at all the superficial shite that came out during the celtic tiger, VIP, expose, MTV Cribs etc. everyone bought in to that crap so we all had to stop driving Fords and drive a german car.

I spent most of the celtic tiger working in London and it was just as bad over there because there was already so much money on show before 2000/1 that when cash became more accessible nobody gave a shit they just wanted to party like a millionaire.

We can't spend our whole lives listening to the media blaming everyone else and not once look at ourselves and wonder do I really have to spend €2,000 on my kids communion or is it right to be spending €100 per month on Sky+

[Westsidex]

of course it's both our fault, it's everyone's fault, just look at all the superficial shite that came out during the celtic tiger, VIP, expose, MTV Cribs etc. everyone bought in to that crap so we all had to stop driving Fords and drive a german car.

I spent most of the celtic tiger working in London and it was just as bad over there because there was already so much money on show before 2000/1 that when cash became more accessible nobody gave a shit they just wanted to party like a millionaire.

We can't spend our whole lives listening to the media blaming everyone else and not once look at ourselves and wonder do I really have to spend €2,000 on my kids communion or is it right to be spending €100 per month on Sky+

Not mine,
Westside.

[monster_monster]

Not mine,
Westside.

actually it's all your fault and no one else's, I take back everything I said earlier and from now on I am pointing all this countries financial woes straight at you Westie

[luther]

Not mine,
Westside.

Of course not...........

[Smarty]

And the previous 10 years???



Sorry but nobody brought us to this only ourselves when we turned into a nation of yuppie snobs. Nobody forced us to buy these things with money we didn't have and couldn't pay back.............



I'm sorry Smarty, but to blame the EU for a mess largely caused by ourselves, all be it in the shadow of a global downturn is a total cop out.............

Nobody forced anybody to take this cheap money that was thrown at them, people created this property bubble themselves.

People couldn't exercise a little common sence and self control themselves???

Sadly no, many couldn't and those who did will now also end up paying the price......

And now they expect the government (the taxpayer, you and I) to bail out individuals who got themselves into trouble with second and third properties because they were stroking their own egos and keeping up with the Joneses..........

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but nobody forced them into this position.........

What about a normal Joe Soap who didn't jump on the property bandwagon, and ride the gravey train. Perhaps a small business owner, creating employment, paying his tax and all the rest, living modestly while people went nuts all around him, the guy who sees all his hard work and money invested in his business, and now sees that business close. Who's going to bail him out??? The government??? Will they fuck...........

I'm not getting into the immigration and Eastern European thing cause that the same thing as the EU. Grand while it suits us................

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry that lots of us are in negative equity and struggle every day to make ends meet but to blame that on the EU because they brought us to that standard is utter BS...........

Smarty I'm not having a go at you here, I really enjoy your posts, I do............

I respect and like your comments too , Luther

[luther]

I respect and like your comments too , Luther

.................................

[carlos marvado]

I dont see any justification for blaming the EU for our present ills.

We probably have been a net contributor for less than 10 years, but were a net beneficiary for the previous 30 years.
A lot of the infrastructure that we see here today has been as a result of EU structural/regional/social funding.
As a small open economy of 4.5 million on an island off another island off the EU mainland, we represent less than 1% of the total population and we need them a lot more than they need us.
The decisions regarding taxation, incentives, spending, borrowing, rezoning, lending policy and regulation were taken by Irish people in Ireland.
Many Irish people (not all by any means) were happy to get on the Celtic merry-go-round in order to benefit from property speculation.
Finally, it was'nt unelected EU burocrates or technocrates or foreign politicians who allowed this country to run headlong into a cul-de-sac........it was the people that we elected over the past 3 general elections who were the cheer leaders for that crazy race.

[Westsidex]

I dont see any justification for blaming the EU for our present ills.

We probably have been a net contributor for less than 10 years, but were a net beneficiary for the previous 30 years.
A lot of the infrastructure that we see here today has been as a result of EU structural/regional/social funding.
As a small open economy of 4.5 million on an island off another island off the EU mainland, we represent less than 1% of the total population and we need them a lot more than they need us.
The decisions regarding taxation, incentives, spending, borrowing, rezoning, lending policy and regulation were taken by Irish people in Ireland.
Many Irish people (not all by any means) were happy to get on the Celtic merry-go-round in order to benefit from property speculation.
Finally, it was'nt unelected EU burocrates or technocrates or foreign politicians who allowed this country to run headlong into a cul-de-sac........it was the people that we elected over the past 3 general elections who were the cheer leaders for that crazy race.

Its not so much our present ills but our future ones.

we are giving away our freedom,
Westside.

[carlos marvado]

Its not so much our present ills but our future ones.

we are giving away our freedom,
Westside.

I understand what you mean Westie, but in the same way as a person who wishes to maintain their independence of action including financial independence, should never get over their head in debt, so too should a nation not run up a massive sovereign debt to outside institutions. Given that the Irish exchequer will take in a little over 30 billion in review this year, but spend some 20 odd billion in excess of this, the government can either slash public expenditure by 20 billion and thereby destroy the national infrastructure and social cohesion, which would make Greece look like a tea party, or we can borrow it and give our creditors a say over how we run our affairs. From the perspective of the EU countries that will be contributing most to this fund (France and Germany), one can hardly expect their electorates to accept that their tax Euros are going to be pumped into an Irish or Greek black hole without a quid pro quo in the form of their governments or the EU having some input into Irish policy. Without this, there is no guarantee that an Irish government wont squander French and German taxpayers' Euros in the same way that they have been squandering Irish taxpayers' Euros for the past decade. If you are in debt to an Irish bank, you cannot afford to ignore your bank manager and we cannot afford to ignore the EU.