Laura's Northern Ireland Case Has Got its Initial Hearing

[SteveB]

As a matter of interest, on what grounds ,iyo,do you believe that the courts will reject her case ? The only western court that i'm aware of which has seen a similar case in recent years was the Canadian Bedford case in which the Supreme Court found unanimously 9 -0 that the pertaining laws(similar to the laws right now here in RoI) were unlawful. Unfortunately , the court decision then allowed the Harper govt enough wriggle room to introduce the Swedish model which was enacted within 12 months.

Human rights specialist Michael Lynn's favourable assessment on the non-constitutionality on the law , as at SWAI's website is worth checking out . And the one thing which his assessment doesn't make any capital on is the complete and deliberate non-disclosure of damning Swedish police reports that provide the foundation for the promotion of the Swedish model as a success.

I hope you are right.
The United Kingdom does not have a written constitution. That does not mean that a (unwritten) constitution does not exist, just that it is very difficult to have a law ruled unconstitutional. To have the law struck down the burden of proof would lie with proving there was some major legal problem with it. The courts are always hesitant to rule against lawmakers.
I agree it is a very bad law, but even if the judges agreed, they still (I would think) be reluctant to strike it down.

[The Libertarian]

I hope you are right.
The United Kingdom does not have a written constitution. That does not mean that a (unwritten) constitution does not exist, just that it is very difficult to have a law ruled unconstitutional. To have the law struck down the burden of proof would lie with proving there was some major legal problem with it. The courts are always hesitant to rule against lawmakers.
I agree it is a very bad law, but even if the judges agreed, they still (I would think) be reluctant to strike it down.

But when it's a law which will cause very real harm or even more evidently in The Republic, a law which is intended to do harm, surely the game is up!

[SteveB]

But when it's a law which will cause very real harm or even more evidently in The Republic, a law which is intended to do harm, surely the game is up!

That is a value judgement and it is unlikely to have much of a place in legal argument.

[milkman]

You may very well be right but i'd find it very hard to envisage any senior court of merit be it here or in the uk not finding rulings unconstitutional if the occasion arises e.g the brexit case awhile back . In this particular case ,admittedly with biased hat on , the pro-swedish model case is totally dependent on rhetoric and non-disclosure of unfavourable swedish reports plus the complete denial of any negative consequences . Something which most politicians were happy to succumb to in order to glow in the TORL halo , but as i said earlier , in the cold atmosphere of a senior , impartial court i wouldnt expect to carry much weight .

But then again , who knows - even a favourable finding may result in very tardy govt response to change the existing law. Or perhaps a decisive ruling may require an immediate strike down . And then you've appeals etc . One adv in NI is that the Minister for Justice is not a mainstream political party member - this should ensure impartiality .

Obv time will tell but everybody knew that Irish politicians , both NI & RoI , were always going to vote in such self serving manner . It was only in the courts that possible neutral evidence based legislation may be secured.

[SteveB]

The Northern Ireland Abortion Law causes misery and hardship.
The judges agreed.
But still they would not strike it down.

[milkman]

Cant remember off top of my head but when was that case taken? But yeah,the non-availability of abortion in NI makes a case for conservatism . The again , Ashers Bakery was also considered infringement on human rights of gay people ( i personally disagreed with the utterly contrived situtaion by the plantiffs)

Though again , abortion is a massive sensitive social issue - on this subject matter, evidence per se on the Swedish Model is fairly one-sided.

[SteveB]

Quote;-
People expect justice.
But what they get is the law

[SteveB]

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. ~Edmund Burke

[Dom Dunn]

As a matter of interest, on what grounds ,iyo,do you believe that the courts will reject her case ? The only western court that i'm aware of which has seen a similar case in recent years was the Canadian Bedford case in which the Supreme Court found unanimously 9 -0 that the pertaining laws(similar to the laws right now here in RoI) were unlawful. Unfortunately , the court decision then allowed the Harper govt enough wriggle room to introduce the Swedish model which was enacted within 12 months.

Human rights specialist Michael Lynn's favourable assessment on the non-constitutionality on the law , as at SWAI's website is worth checking out . And the one thing which his assessment doesn't make any capital on is the complete and deliberate non-disclosure of damning Swedish police reports that provide the foundation for the promotion of the Swedish model as a success.

Is it likely the courts will come up with a Bedford style fudge finding in favour and against different aspects of the law. Lynn's assessment is interesting and informative particularly considering that he states that before he researched the subject
he was broadly in agreement with the legislation. Bye the way does anybody know what is happening in Canada with respect to Harper's rewrite?

[The Libertarian]

Is it likely the courts will come up with a Bedford style fudge finding in favour and against different aspects of the law. Lynn's assessment is interesting and informative particularly considering that he states that before he researched the subject
he was broadly in agreement with the legislation. Bye the way does anybody know what is happening in Canada with respect to Harper's rewrite?

The situation in Canada is the criminalise the punter is the law, totally in contrast to what Harper et al were mandated to bring in! Vancouver has stated it will not enforce this nonsense and it seem it is only actually enforced elsewhere, in cases where the police believe their is coercision of sex workers involved, hence they have raided some Asian Establishments!
Trudeau's Government has pledged to reform it!