Bad Client Data - Moving Forward

[Patricia]

In light of recent developments, I think now would be a good time for E-I to assess whether our approach towards the bad client details issue needs revision.

As most around here know, we do have a private forum for escorts.

NEVER has our private forum been used to share good client details.

Mainly it is used to discuss escort relevant issues regards advertising here and working as an escort in Ireland

However ladies do post warnings about bad clients in it sometimes.

I have previously considered creating a bad clients database for the use of escorts. Every time an escort is attacked, you can't help but think there must be something sites like E-I can do to help escorts work together to stay safe?

However the whole issue is very difficult. Legally, I know it is very complex and difficult, which is the main reason we're never done a serious bad clients initiative. But before you even get to legal questions, there are moral ones. I mean, what if bad client systems are abused by the escorts using them?

And this in no longer a "what if". We've just seen a database of approx 5,000 "bad clients" is circulating. There is no way all the people in the database are bad clients. In fact you can clearly see some ladies have added clients to the database for no good reason, like "think he is a timewaster".

Obviously this is disgraceful, but what about E-I?

Should we continue to allow ladies to post warnings about bad clients in our private forums? The obvious answer to that question is yes of course, but is it right, given we have no way of knowing the details are correct, that the client is genuinely a danger to ladies?

This list has been a wake up call for me too. I don't believe most of the people involved in this list had bad intentions, but what they did was very wrong.

I'm now wondering whether E-I should try to learn from this whole mess too. I'd like to now set clear limits and guidelines as to what escorts can post in our private forum regards bad clients, so I can be sure we never create a monster like this list.

My question to escorts and clients is:

Should we allow escorts to post warnings about bad clients in our private escort forum, and if yes, how much should we let them post, i.e. full phone number or 6 digits or what?

I appreciate that for escorts being able to warn each other about dangerous clients is very important, but I also want to make sure we are being fair to clients.

Thank you

Pat x

[annasavicha]

I think we should keep it like it was,remove everyone,and add few ladies that dont spill,leak or lie,and then rest by one,and ones that lie over List...............not really......

Also there s no need for ladies to be there who dont use it,and ones that are not known,as some are pimped,and there was a recent case that pimps had access to it......

[Epsilon]

None of us want girls in danger and we are all for anything that can protect them, but the "list" has proven to be a dangerous idea that has upset a lot of people and has caused a lot of bad feeling.
I know that this is a legal minefield, but as a compromise is there no way that E-I could start such a database, and keep it strictly monitered.
A database where bad clients description and partial (last 5 digits) number can be stored with a search facility, And if a good clents list is needed, this could be strictly monitered by E-I staff, not mods, again only the last 4 digits and possibly the username or nickname. no descriptions or personal information.
I dont know if there is a way of protecting this from abuse, thats a question for your tech monkeys. but i do feel that some sort of regulated list could be made up for the safety of all the escorts that use this site. Obviously only paid up advertising escorts could have access to this facility and only when thier profile is active.
Just a though......
I have discussed the list with a couple of girls and they have been very honest and upfront about this matter. I dont think that this was ever a malicious thing or that there was an alterior motive, i believe that it was a misguided tool that was used wrongly, and that if it was used properly, it could have saved a lot of problems for escorts working in Ireland.

[annasavicha]

Ok,Epsi,but how about ones that lied 5 times about list and admitted only upfront facts that were discovered?

I will never trust them...

[Epsilon]

Ok,Epsi,but how about ones that lied 5 times about list and admitted only upfront facts that were discovered?

I will never trust them...

I can only comment on the two girls that i asked about this. I will not name them but if they want to add to this they can. I dont know about anybody who lied but i am sure that they did and that there a many more lies yet to be told about this. We will never hear the full truth.

[annasavicha]

It s implied list does not exist any more......

[Epsilon]

It s implied list does not exist any more......

I dont for one second believe that the list does not exist anymore. somebody has it or its sitting on a server somewhere.. but i do not believe it was destroyed...

[luther]

It s implied list does not exist any more......

At this stage I don't think anyboby would be naive enough to believe, or think that the list doesn't exist, in some form, somewhere, my personal feeling is that it still exists in many places, in many forms.....

[thehighwayman]

Theres a version of the list circulating so obviously it hasn't been destroyed. The informations out there. The list was created for escort security. The way things have turned out it's compromised their security. Now clients will be paranoid and using different sim cards. So it's impossible for escorts to verify who anyone is now unless they book through pms on the forums.

I think the way E-I deals with bad clients should be left as it is and only paying advertisers for that month have access. The safety of escorts shouldn't suffer because of all this.

[Quarterpoundher]

Putting aside the issue of legality for a second and assume this was legally ok for E-I to do this but would it be possible for E-I to have a similar spread sheet keep at its location but only be possible for any Escort to add just a username and say 5 digits of a number and state only that they were not physically or verbally threatened by the owner of that username and number and either ok or not ok and that any Escort wishing to know if a caller and potential customer was ok could enter his username into a search field and only get a return on that one person as being ok or not and the names of the escorts who said he was ok or not or enter the full number into a search field that comes up on her phone and get a return on any partial number’s stored by E-I that matches.

That way the entire database is accessible to no one escort and cannot end up being compromised. I don’t see how E-I just having a database of usernames and partial numbers could be illegal and the fact of the matter is that lists like these will always exist so would it not be better for E-I to be in charge of it rather then who knows who and therefore negate the need for small groups to do this between themselves.

The value of an Escort being able to quickly verify if a caller was never a danger to either one or more other Escorts is a huge advantage to her safety, health and well being and is of paramount importance and also has advantages for the client in being promptly agreed to being allowed a booking and in her being genuinely more relaxed and in reality there are only two alternatives,

1

Be on any number of lists circulated by anyone at anytime for unknown motives

2

Be put on a secure and very limited access and ultra limited data list with E-I with only your username and partial number and a list of escort/escorts who said you were ok or not and then any inquiring Escort can make a far better judgement call based on who or how many known and respected Escorts gave him the thumbs up or thumbs down just like a punter can do in looking at reviews. Just like reviews it is not perfect and subject to trickery but it is better then nothing and any Escort who may know another Escort personally or put store in her word and honestly would then know if that complete stranger who she may be closing a door to the rest of the world to is a calculated risk worth taking based on the word of others she may know or just a plain 50/50 gamble and hope for the best.

Also any Escort signing up to an E-I based system would no longer need to be part of any other less secure ad hoc data base and would not now be caught up in this mess for only wanting to protect herself as best she can in a very dangerous profession.

That list was done for very good reasons but where it was weak is in the area of security and unnecessary data that was irrelevant to the issue of safety which was why it was created in the first place and ironically now that it is in the open all Escorts are more at risk as they will now not have a clue who is ringing them as I imagine sim card sales will go through the roof this week with perfectly good and decent clients changing sims and never telling an escort even their username so I feel its imperative that if legally ok for E-I that they consider being the custodians of a limited list and clients can be confident that it only contains a username and partial digits and nothing more and that no one escort can access the entire data base and use it for ulterior motives.

There are huge risks to Escorts in not having a list and huge risks to Clients in not knowing how detailed those lists are so why not have E-I as an honest half way house between both sides and then both sides get what they want which is basically….

Piece of mind, for very differing and valid reasons.

This whole house of cards is based on trust between complete strangers who only meet fleetingly and to be able to trust those you don’t know is a contradiction in terms so it would be best if E-I had a system that allowed Escorts to verify just a username to a partial number but could not roam the entire data base or add unnecessary detail's, if they want those then they can contact the Escort or Escorts that said they met them but it should not be put on any data base ever. That is a breech of trust placed in them and is plain wrong.

The genie is already out of the bottle. I would prefer the bottle to be with E-I then myriad unknowns and for only any one person to be able to sip from that bottle that which they need and not smash it over the heads of everyone else for whatever motive.