Circumventing the new law

[ladiesman217]

Circumvent the proposed law by keeping your mouth shut.

Barn door too eh?

[dragonjay]

Where a pair of trainers so you can make a quick getaway no more shoes for me

[The Libertarian]

Weirdly, the way the law was worded in The North that is the case. Payment can be anything, drink, meal, fuel for car etc. So if you have any sort of sexual contact with anyone under any circumstances and it can be shown that you have bought her a drink or even offered her a lift in your car you are technically committing an offence.
Strangely, there are no exemptions even for long-term relationships or even if you are married. Stupid law or what?

And one of the reasons why Lara Lee will win her case against it staring Feb 19 in The Belfast High Court!

[Mister Anderson]

A bit of positivity about the whole situation, lets hope you are right.

Good luck Lara Lee.

No! Why? What?



Seriously ...?

[TonyB]

Ladies and gents,

For those living under a rock (like me):
1. What is the likelihood of this law being passed, and when?
2. What does it specifically criminalize (no proof money change hands is ok?) and what are the consequences (fines, jail time, criminal record, etc)?

My understanding is that this law is reasonably likely to be passed in the short term rather than long term.
As long as we have a narrow minded woman as a Minster of Justice basically the mad nuns will win out, inflicting their moral views on us like a 1950s Ireland.
My opinion is that one ray of hope is a looming election which hopefully will deflect attention from this law to other matters sufficiently for it to be shelved.
But I wouldn't hold my breath on this.

In answer to point 2.
Gardai raid escorts, they entrap clients on streets (like Limerick recently), why do you think they have to prove you handed over money?
Clients will have left an escorts apartment, or entered it. I don't think the Gardai or court will accept you were there for bible practice. This said I don't know.
The biggest issue with being caught is being put on the sex offenders register and being labelled along side real criminals.

This all said, I'll tell you more when I am caught. Because knowing me it's only a matter of time.

[eveready]

If you look at the way they operate the law in Sweden, they aren't really concerned if they can bring a successful court case against you, which I assume they cannot without video evidence or direct eyewitness accounts of the deed being done. They will periodically stake themselves outside a "known" apartment and watch for obvious punters going in and upon exiting you will be stopped questioned and told what you were supposedly doing and threatened with arrest and the public exposure of a court case. You will then be told you will be let off with a warning if you pay an on the spot fine (better start carrying extra money along with you). The only people not affected by this will be those who couldn't care less about anyone else finding out what they'd been up to (not many out there I'd reckon). They can do nothing to such a person. The case wouldn't even go to court as the DPP wouldn't have a shred of evidence to prove you've committed a crime.

On the issue of whether the law will be passed. I would be gobsmaked if it is not. They only reason it hasn't been so far, is that FG is waiting till right before they announce the General Election to launch their "brave" campaign to wipe out smut and vice from the bedrooms of Ireland, champion the dignity of the fairer sex, and save all the hundreds of kidnapped teenagers working as sex slaves across our god fearing nation. They can bathe in the glory of their moral turpitude as the protectors of all that is good and great. Excuse me while I go and vomit.

[maxq]

On the issue of whether the law will be passed. I would be gobsmaked if it is not. They only reason it hasn't been so far, is that FG is waiting till right before they announce the General Election to launch their "brave" campaign to wipe out smut and vice from the bedrooms of Ireland, champion the dignity of the fairer sex, and save all the hundreds of kidnapped teenagers working as sex slaves across our god fearing nation. They can bathe in the glory of their moral turpitude as the protectors of all that is good and great. Excuse me while I go and vomit.

I disagree with some of this, yes the law will pass, but its the Labour party that was the driving force behind it, Its the likes of Ivan Bacik and the social justice warrior wing of the party that love laws like this

That said I won't be voting for either party

[Dom Dunn]

The fact is that although this repressive legislation appears absurd and impractical as it reads, in practice, it is likely to be reasonably effective if the cops decide on a crack down. The most likely way that you will face arrest/questioning will be either inside of or leaving any premises that the law can convince a court that sexual services are bought and sold. Before they go to court they will have done their homework you can be assured. I am of the opinion that the law will target well known places were sex is sold and will in the main ignore or fail to locate most discreet locations.
Sting operations will be another possibility but this would necessitate a lot of effort and is likely to be used only periodically. Also meeting an escort in a public place and taking them to your premises/ hotel room while a breach of the law is not likely to be ever successfully prosecuted.
When the law comes in it really is likely to have a minimal impact in the medium to long term as punters adjust to the changed environment. A number of people will initially at least be fearful of exposure and enter temporary retirement. But after the first 2 or 3 rounds of convictions this will no longer be big news and only people who for relationship/work reasons could in no circumstances afford to be charged will abstain.
I personally will continue to punt but perhaps a bit more cautiously and will be rowing in behind any attempt to have this disgraceful piece of legislation struck down or recinded.

[td1]

I think it most certainly will reduce numbers seeing escorts. No doubt about it. Who will want to be named & shamed?

What about guys/girls who go for companionship & not sex? They do exist!

I think Kate McGrew is v brave in what she is doing. And also the Sex Workers alliance but it may not be enough. "Trafficing" is the issue as we know, but how do you stop it??!!

[Dom Dunn]

Name and shame factor is real for most but will diminish over time. New ways of engaging with escorts will emerge in due course. Water always finds its own level and this thing will go on believe me.
Some people do see escorts for company but very few meet ups would be totally free of something approaching a sexual event and technically would fall foul of the law. Interestingly many largely legit massage houses could also be in contravention.
I agree Kate is putting up a brave fight but ultimately the briefs and the judges will decide this one way or another. I would bet on it ending up in the Supreme Court and the House of Lords within the next couple of years and I hope we win.
Trafficing is the excuse the Right Wing/Radfem alliance have used to push this nonsense through and sadly one of the outcomes is likely to be the driving further underground of the Sex Industry with the potential for increased coercion.