Hungary Hold one's own and KEEP ON

[Theomegaman]

Hungary is protecting itself as a sovereign state and protecting its citizens. Yes I agree the pictures of children washed up on beaches is horrifying but you just can't walk through another country in the way these people have and expect it to be ok. The Hungarians are being practical also if you let these people think Europe is easy they will run riot here.
This is an invasion of Europe and an invasion of Hungary the EU should be sending troops to help with the problems on the Hungarian border.
It's easy for us here to criticise because it's not at our front door. The underlying threat is that 4000 of them will be joining our population. All these people are running from war torn areas and ISIS in particular , they are driving these people out and along side them their soldiers or supporters and fanatics are within the thousands of true migrants. They are coming to Europe without firing one single bullet. Think about it 4000 of themin Ireland ?
100 % agree with the Hungarians and their attitude to protecting themselves and especially their stand on what's right and how their citizens should be protected. The EU needs to close all borders again , this isn't about money and what it will do to the economy , this is now about protecting its citizens. There are plenty of other options to help these migrants plenty of other places and ideas that can help.
The Hungarians have seen the threat and have certainly proved they are not a push over and have zero tolerance to their country being walked over.

[Stephanie]

The millions of displaced Syria n's in the countries surrounding Syria need to be materially well supported in their camps as do the countries them selves . Europe and America can well afford to do this.European borders need to be enforced and these people to be assessed.Some will stay and some should be returned under agreement to some of those neighbouring countries.Returning them to fight for their countries may be a misnomer, Somalia is parcelled up as usual between warlords/factions, I presume.
Iraq is in bits including a large bit held by Isil.
Syria is a shifting tapestry of bits of ground held by various groupings.A young Syrian who is anti- Assad and whose other option is to fight for Isis may choose to fight for neither.
Also remember the civil war in Lebanon (similar ethnic divisions to Syria) ran from 1975 to 90/92.Hence no easy solution likely.
Western military involvement , apart from air strikes, which may or may not achieve much, will not involve "boots on the ground unless a few trainers.Russia has some military trainers supporting Assad who they back.

And Putin sits back smirking , while he is actively supplying arms to Assad , and watches as Europe goes into meltdown .

US will eventually -- unwillingly -- be drawn into the crisis , and Putin will smirk even more while countless people die ,

US resources stretched even further , and Europe disintegrates . : He's a smart cookie. A patient one.




: Today's count so far 12.000 people coming in from Croatia to Hungary .

They're complaining of bitter treatment in Serbia : no shelter in the freezing rain , no food , not even for the children .

From Serbia they make their way to Croatia who immediately just put them on trains to ship them to Hungary.

No support , no registration.

Croatia (and Slovenia) actively breaking EU law by not even making an attempt at registration of migrants .


Since fence was built on Serbian border , migrants at those points dropped to the mere teens .

I say build the fence . Now .

In Greece. And in Macedonia. And in Serbia. And here in Hungary. And in Croatia . Make it tall and strong .

Let there be an organised process to the Refugee Crisis , without allowing the undeserving and the opportunistic

a free ride on YOUR back .

[nonpareil]

Hungary has then facilitated the movement of 1000s to Austria who subsequently have allowed 1000s on to Germany.The response of the EU has been Balkanised (and not just in the Balkans;-).Perhaps the EU and UN will eventually get their act together and act in unison, in a co- ordinated fashion(but don't hold your breath).
Italy too has for years been complaining, about the 1000s crossing the Mediterranean and landing on their territory, without necessarily much sympathy forthcoming from the rest of Europe.

[Stephanie]

Hungary is protecting itself as a sovereign state and protecting its citizens. Yes I agree the pictures of children washed up on beaches is horrifying but you just can't walk through another country in the way these people have and expect it to be ok. The Hungarians are being practical also if you let these people think Europe is easy they will run riot here.
This is an invasion of Europe and an invasion of Hungary the EU should be sending troops to help with the problems on the Hungarian border.
It's easy for us here to criticise because it's not at our front door. The underlying threat is that 4000 of them will be joining our population. All these people are running from war torn areas and ISIS in particular , they are driving these people out and along side them their soldiers or supporters and fanatics are within the thousands of true migrants. They are coming to Europe without firing one single bullet. Think about it 4000 of themin Ireland ?
100 % agree with the Hungarians and their attitude to protecting themselves and especially their stand on what's right and how their citizens should be protected. The EU needs to close all borders again , this isn't about money and
what it will do to the economy , this is now about protecting its citizens. There are plenty of other options to help these migrants plenty of other places and ideas that can help.
The Hungarians have seen the threat and have certainly proved they are not a push over and have zero tolerance to their country being walked over.

And Putin sits back smirking , while he is actively supplying arms to Assad , and watches as Europe goes into meltdown .

US will eventually -- unwillingly -- be drawn into the crisis , and Putin will smirk even more while countless people die ,

US resources stretched even further , and Europe disintegrates . : He's a smart cookie. A patient one.




: Today's count so far 12.000 people coming in from Croatia to Hungary .

They're complaining of bitter treatment in Serbia : no shelter in the freezing rain , no food , not even for the children .

From Serbia they make their way to Croatia who immediately just put them on trains to ship them to Hungary.

No support , no registration.

Croatia (and Slovenia) actively breaking EU law by not even making an attempt at registration of migrants .


Since fence was built on Serbian border , migrants at those points dropped to the mere teens .

I say build the fence . Now .

In Greece. And in Macedonia. And in Serbia. And here in Hungary. And in Croatia . Make it tall and strong .

Let there be an organised process to the Refugee Crisis , without allowing the undeserving and the opportunistic

a free ride on YOUR back .


*

[TonyStark]

This is all on Merkel. she opened the doors of Germany and said anyone was welcome. She didn't think it through properly and now tens of thousands of desperate people are making dangerous journeys for financial gain. Germany realised that too many where coming and they couldn't cope, closed their borders which resulted in a domino effect with Austria shutting up shop followed by Hungary who are being lumped with the problem because Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia can't cope and actively transported them to the Hungarian border. Big deal if they are using tear gas, it's used to disperse riots, I'd said a bunch of men chucking rocks and trying to force their way through guarded barriers would be a riot or civil disturbance.

When you see the news etc... it's all men with a ew token kids and women through in to tug the heart strings. Majority of these migrants are not from Syria and the fact that they are well dressed using smart phones to navigate themselves and take selfies, they are far from poor.

Some stories I'm reading about weapons being found in refugee crates and Pakistani passports etc.... being found dumped in hedges near the borders make me think that this is nothing more than an invasion. the fact that Saudi Arabia, one of the most disgusting regimes and one that funds Wahabism (that's the ones that take the Koran to the letter and might as well be Isis) as long as they don't start crap on Saudi Arabia, offered to build mosques in Germany instead of putting money in to help the people confirms this. Not to mention the fact I don't blame them for not wanting to go to Saudi Arabia with their human rights abuses.

People on a Greek island are not in danger nor in a war torn country, you'd think they would be safe but they are rioting and fighting to get on to the Greek mainland, why? Same as those on Sicily why? Then you have those taking the food and water from babies and dumping it, why? And now I hear they are going on hunger strike if they don't get 2000 euros? I guess throwing women and children on train tracks and holding them there doesn't work.

Also with the lack of women and children there, those that are there are at risk of sexual attacks because of both the culture of these people and the fact that none have been vetted so we don't know who's among them, coupled with Isis threat that they will send fighters among the "refugees" very worrying times.

Cameron may be a dickhead but at least he went about it the right way and is looking to take those from UN camps after vetting. the majority of genuine Syrian refugees are in Turkey, Lebanon, Israel and Iraq.

What needs to happen, imo, is UN camps need set up at the Hungarian border and other parts where there are migrants in situ where they can be processed, treated for illnesses etc and either deported or placed. Winter is coming (excuse the catchphrase) and many of these people will die when the temperature drops.

[Stephanie]

Hungary is protecting itself as a sovereign state and protecting its citizens. Yes I agree the pictures of children washed up on beaches is horrifying but you just can't walk through another country in the way these people have and expect it to be ok. The Hungarians are being practical also if you let these people think Europe is easy they will run riot here.
This is an invasion of Europe and an invasion of Hungary the EU should be sending troops to help with the problems on the Hungarian border.
It's easy for us here to criticise because it's not at our front door. The underlying threat is that 4000 of them will be joining our population. All these people are running from war torn areas and ISIS in particular , they are driving these people out and along side them their soldiers or supporters and fanatics are within the thousands of true migrants. They are coming to Europe without firing one single bullet. Think about it 4000 of themin Ireland ?
100 % agree with the Hungarians and their attitude to protecting themselves and especially their stand on what's right and how their citizens should be protected. The EU needs to close all borders again , this isn't about money and
what it will do to the economy , this is now about protecting its citizens. There are plenty of other options to help these migrants plenty of other places and ideas that can help.
The Hungarians have seen the threat and have certainly proved they are not a push over and have zero tolerance to their country being walked over.

At this very moment truck freight shipping is paralysed in Europe travelling from east to west .

Strategists trying to find alternate routes for goods to reach their destinations in Germany , in France , in UK , in Ireland , etc .

This already has huge ramifications for the economic well eying of Europe !

Who are we kidding ?!!

In Hungary each single refugee / migrant coming through (receiving / availing of humanitarian services or not) is costing

15€ / day . Each of them . To this day 200.000 has passed through this country -- some walking right through , others staying

for weeks ( <<< they'd be the law abiding ones , at refugee registration camps) .

Do the numbers !

Are you ready !?

[Westsidex]

Not funny, not pleasant. We don't need more bigotry in a very complex situation

Why dont you go and help them so if your so sobby about it? I dont like muslims and have no respect for them but im only returning the favour. Nothing complex at all about it. Just sharing the dislike.

Westside.

[whoseyourdaddy]

I completely agree with much of the sentiments expressed on this thread.
The frailty of the European project is again exposed in this current crisis. The southern and Balkan States are ill-equipped to deal with this crisis and are not being properly supported by the power centres of the North. I think it was Henry Kissinger who said ' when I need To call Europe, what number do I dial?' This issue has been horribly exposed again.
The response to the crisis has been very poor so far and yes, Stephanie, I think it will require the US to become involved in the solution. After all the US has more than a little responsibility for the current failure of states such as Afghanistan, Libya, and Iraq that has created this exodus.

I agree also that this crisis is falling into the hands of the unscrupulous such as Isis and Putin who see it as an opportunity to further destabilise Europe. A global response is required and it's a huge task probably involving the redrawing of borders in N. Africa and Middle East. How this will be achieved I have no idea.
In the meantime, there are genuine refugees who require help as do the front line states dealing with the brunt of the crisis. London, Paris, Berlin etc need to get a joint telephone account.

[FetishCherry]

And to briefly revisit the issue of TearGas use :

Two days ago (yesterday ?) Slovenia resorted to using TearGas against the mob trying to break down its borders .

They succeeded in holding back the masses -- for a while , then the Slovenian forces surrendered and

are now actively busing and transporting the 'refugees' to guess where ? To Hungary .

I wonder : was any outrage expressed in the international media re the Slovenian govt employing TearGas ??!


The Croatians tried with Force to stop the refugees entering their country . They failed -- miserably failed .

What did they do ? They put several thousand refugees on a train , and sent the train guess where ?

To Hungary. The Hungarian govt was absolutely outraged that 1. Croatia would do such a thing without consulting w

Hungary in the first place , and 2. Which is prob even more serious : when called to task , the Croatian govt.

falsely stated that this transport was agreed to by Hungarian govt. , after the two countries having consulted on

the matter . Hungary -- outragedly -- stated that this is not true , said the Croats are lying.

A day later Croatian head of state went on television and admitted to having been 'less than honest' , admitted

that their forces are unprepared to meet the refugee crisis demand , and that they shipped off the refugees to

Hungary -- without consulting w Hung govt -- out of sheer desperation .

When asked why they shipped thousands of people to Hungary , the Croat reply was : because it's closer .

Which is also untrue .

Hungary under siege , EU should be sending help HERE ! , EU by all means long ago should've asked for UN assistance .

Here (in Hungary) each refugee is fed , clothed , offered medical help , offered personal hygiene facilities , etc.

All this country asked was for these people to obey the law of the land , and register .

They refuse , and they riot .

They paralyse the public transport system , block roadways and destroy anything and everything in their path .

Fruit orchards not only robbed of fruit , but branches (that took decades !! to cultivate) broken off and trampled .

I ask you : WHY ???




Croatian head of state about to give press conference admitting "we forced the migrant mobs onto Hungary" .

: So TearGas in Slovenia , Croatia calculatingly shipping mobs to Hungarian border , etc.

Were these matters / issues in the media ? Where is the outrage ? YouTube footage !??


What is a country to do ?

If this was at your border . What would you have your govt do ?? When you can no longer let your

kids out the door , when your car will be vandalised by morning , when you can't make your way to work because

of road blocks , etc. What then !?



^

U ask why Stephanie? Because is very clear they are full of hate and rather then thanks to God they escaped from war and they are in a safe country who tried to help them they want to destroy not to live peacefully. yesterday i have seen some videos i was shocked how full of hate they are against us who have different religion , how they brainwash the kids putting the hate in them small mind and heart , how merciless they are with women and kids them women them kids, so so aggressive o my God why? This people cant integrate cant change them mentality because this is the way they have been raised/ I met very nice guys in my job muslims , yes there are people educated nice and polite, hard workers,its wrong to say all muslims are same, no, they are not all the same, like we are not all the same ... but here with this refugees is something not right. People say '' i,m sorry for them'' and im coming and say '' be sorry for us, for the rest of the EU countries' because i think... something big will happen.... and not something good
This video shoked me, about how to grow a jihadist : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f20_1410921765

[whoseyourdaddy]

Why dont you go and help them so if your so sobby about it? I dont like muslims and have no respect for them but im only returning the favour. Nothing complex at all about it. Just sharing the dislike.

Westside.

My great fear is that we allow this crisis to descend into a religious conflict between Christian and Muslim. Our western mistrust of Muslim culture is ancient and deep. Until we both find some form of trust and co operation this will continue. Not easy, I agree with the pre-eminence of extremist Islamic groups throughout the world. However we need to find common ground with the vast majority of moderate Muslims if we are to progress.
The movements of peoples is nothing new and has always been a part of human history. The Moors were a huge influence in Spanish culture and positively so. Africa and Middle East border Europe. Migrations are natural and unavoidable. Perpetuating ancient hatreds, on both sides, are ultimately disastrous.
Maybe I am little naive but that's my view.