The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill is due to be published later this week!!! OMG

[xagerate]

Where are these guys coming here with this stuff

Which stuff in particular?

[talkabout]

Make good use of 2015.
An early New Year's resolution.

[Davidontour]

The best question to ask is how this law has worked in Sweden, which has had it for 15 years.

In some ways, it has worked. In others it certainly hasn't.

It hasn't succeeded in eliminating sex work or trafficking (regardless of how it's defined). It hasn't succeeded in greatly deterring buyers, as the govt report that there are over 1000 sex workers in Sweden (population 9 million compared to Ireland north & south which has 6.5 million and also about 1000 SWs).

It HAS succeeded in making life more difficult for sex workers (and it's important to realise that this is the main aim). Governments introducing the Swedish Model do so with the aim of reducing and stigmatising prostitution. They know that the numbers involved in coerced trafficking are very small, but use the subject to sell the policy to the public. ''Think of the enslaved women'' is a much better tag-line than ''we don't approve of people selling sex.'' Fitzgerald proved this when she recently told Catriona that she didn't want to ''normalise'' sex buying.

Tellingly, England rejected this model out of hand a few weeks ago. Denmark, Finland, Scotland and the French senate have done the same. They know that this policy will endanger sex workers and waste police time and resources chasing consenting adults, all because some feminists and religionists find the idea of sex work distasteful.

[Kaz]

They can't prove payment took place, so it's unworkable. You could be visiting a woman for lots of reasons. Like getting cooking lessons.

[eveready]

This legislation is bullshit and is totally symptomatic of the moralising blueshirt Fine Gailers. Having said that. I do believe unless strongly coerced by whoever is Minister for Justice at the time, this law will rarely be policed. They might do a sweep once or twice a year to get some press headlines, so idiots can say " Oh aren't the guards great, saving all those fallen women from the despicable perverts." The only problem is if they identify enforcement as an easy revenue stream, as most blokes who would be coming out a some flats post delicto and are approached by guards asking who you were visiting in there are just going to pay a fine rather than chance their arm and hope they don't get served with a court appearance and all the notoriety that would accompany that. That is the only worry I see. Except you will definitely run a far greater risk of being caught in the towns as the guards will well know what establishments are up to the biz as will locals and will have to be seen to be doing something. But in the cities, the higher echelons of An Garda Síochána have no interest in policing this law unless forced to by some puritanical Minister for Justice. I do think though things will take a bit of a turn back to the bad days before the internet. Where these activities were mostly confined to Dublin, Cork, Belfast, and Limerick. This website would be doing itself a favour to set up a proxy version that is accessible to members only and get people signed up now before the law comes into effect and then close the membership so there is much less chance of any members being undercover Gardai looking to get details of locations of flats. As well as they will surely try to block or monitor access to any sites like this so a proxy will be necessary. E_I, you'd want to be seriously thinking about ways to make things safer for the girls and the punters NOW because later will be too late.

[eveready]

At kaz:

Doesn't matter to fuck what you were doing or where you were as the Guard out on the street will basically scare the shite out of you that charges will be brought and you can fight it out in court where you wife/girlfriends/family and everyone you know will then know about it. Of course you would never be convicted in court if they don't have evidence or it wasn't an undercover that you just paid and attempted to fuck, but you are only immune if you don't give a fuck who knows your business when court proceedings are brought against you. Having said that read my post above you further musings on the subject.

[The Libertarian]

The pigz are primarily interested in picking up easy fines so punters caught coming out of apartments or going into them will just accept an on the spot fine and hope that's the end of it!
Those who wish to have their day before some pervert judge will bring about a situation where as happens in Sweden, the pigz will bring untold pressure on the particular service provider to testify such as reporting said worker to the DSP, confiscation of earnings and even threats to put her children into care!
None of the great and good in Irish society, e.g. the type who would kick somebody to death outside a posh nightclub will ever be prosecuted under this law, that's an absolute given!
70 sections sounds like a hell of a lot, will they try and compare punters to child molesters in some respects?
I suspect this piece of legislation will have more constitutional holes in it than aul Republican Dominic McGlinchey had in him when he was sent on his merry way!
And most cynically and worryingly of all the proponents of this absolute madness know exactly the consequences of such laws for sex workers and some of them will cream their trousers over this!
At The End Of The Day, No Punter Will Die Because Of Such A Law Directly, But It Is Highly Foreseeable That A Sex Worker Will!

[eveready]

If anyone saw the Swedish TV documentoid, where a punter actually phoned police to say he believed he just been to see a girl he believed was working against her will (a brave and honourable thing to do in country where purchase is illegal) and rather than raid the flat, the policed set up outside and confronted punter after punter going in and got them to pay fines rather than possibly rescue a trafficked woman, then you have seen the darkside of this type of legislation. It will do fuck all for the people who truely need help and will only fuck with the ladies who are doing it of their own volition. Fuck you Frances FItzgerald, Ruhama, IIC, Torl and any other moralising, pinched faced ass clowns out there. You are fucking hypocrites.

[Elizaparkeruk]

I think it is a political play, not a true effort to tackle the problem of human trafficking. There is currently a much more serious problem of drugs, organised crime and financial crime that has been overlooked. If things were legalised as they are in parts of Europe, clients would only target the legal workers.

[The Libertarian]

I think it is a political play, not a true effort to tackle the problem of human trafficking. There is currently a much more serious problem of drugs, organised crime and financial crime that has been overlooked. If things were legalised as they are in parts of Europe, clients would only target the legal workers.

At this stage even the blatant lie that this law is about preventing trafficking has gone by the boards!
It's about making more money for prominent TORLER groups who will be laughing their asses off all the way to the bank with the increased Government funding to them to help 'Fallen' woman (i.e. put them on Junior Cert English courses and pre ECDL computer courses!).
It's about crucifying non compliant sex workers (from the perspective of those TORLER groups)
It's about giving a few punters a slap on the wrist!
It's about social engineering from Fake Socialists and Frothing Radical fems!
It's about religious loons trying to re-establish a foothold in Irish Society.
It's about cynical careerist acting the bollocks!