The EU are back to their old tricks

It appears that you Yes voters who were brainwashed and browbeaten in the last campaign have been duped again.

Remember when we got the gaurentee that our taxes were up to the Dail and the Irish nation to decide.

Well it appears that that gaurentee is not worth the paper its written on.

A whitehouse aide came out with ''Never waste a good crices.

Now the EU are ''suggesting'' (it will soon change to insisting) that national govts submit their budgets for "" Peer Review'' before thay are even approved by the national parliments., They are going to envoke a little known section in the Lisbon Treaty for this to happen.

Really it all makes perfect scense. You can't have a truly integrated Europe without standard taxes throughout Europe, Ireland anfd those useless gombeens in the Dail will be forced to accede to the Demands of Brussels on the pretext that we are saving the Euro.

I can see two outcomes.
(1) The EU will implode within the next 5 years, due to financial strains etc.
(2) We willl see the birth of a superstate of which Ireland will be only a county on the edge of the superstate.
in this scanario, the EU will be viewed with suspision by Russia to the North, China to the east and the US to the West. The EU was initially set up to prevent a further European war but if history has tought us anything it is one thing Superstates can't help but to flex its military muscle which leads to conflict.

The Smarty

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Originally Posted by Smarty

(1) The EU will implode within the next 5 years, due to financial strains etc.

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No harm in this happening. FFS thousands lost their lives over British rule in Ireland and then they give it to the Germans and French instead.

ffs,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by Smarty

It appears that you Yes voters who were brainwashed and browbeaten in the last campaign have been duped again.

Remember when we got the gaurentee that our taxes were up to the Dail and the Irish nation to decide.

Well it appears that that gaurentee is not worth the paper its written on.

A whitehouse aide came out with ''Never waste a good crices.

Now the EU are ''suggesting'' (it will soon change to insisting) that national govts submit their budgets for "" Peer Review'' before thay are even approved by the national parliments., They are going to envoke a little known section in the Lisbon Treaty for this to happen.

Really it all makes perfect scense. You can't have a truly integrated Europe without standard taxes throughout Europe, Ireland anfd those useless gombeens in the Dail will be forced to accede to the Demands of Brussels on the pretext that we are saving the Euro.

I can see two outcomes.
(1) The EU will implode within the next 5 years, due to financial strains etc.
(2) We willl see the birth of a superstate of which Ireland will be only a county on the edge of the superstate.
in this scanario, the EU will be viewed with suspision by Russia to the North, China to the east and the US to the West. The EU was initially set up to prevent a further European war but if history has tought us anything it is one thing Superstates can't help but to flex its military muscle which leads to conflict.

The Smarty

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Paranoia at its best!

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Originally Posted by Finbar

Paranoia at its best!

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i rather be considered paranoid then bending over for the penis of the EU to shaft me whilst sharpening my voting pencil to vote FF back in again.

wait and see,
Westside.

Well I have waited a good while now and nothing has happened so I think I'm in the right to call yous paranoid.

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Originally Posted by Finbar

Well I have waited a good while now and nothing has happened so I think I'm in the right to call yous paranoid.

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LOL nothing has happened. Thats preceisly what i mean.

nothing has happened,
Westside.

what if we just rang Cameron-and were really, really nice about it? 'just did not work out for us...'

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Remember when we got the gaurentee that our taxes were up to the Dail and the Irish nation to decide.

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The Dail and the Irish nation are very different things, in case you hadn't noticed. I don't really see any advantages to leaving my taxes in the hands of Fianna Fail.

still it will prevent governments from spending money they dont have further loss of control though from a country that has lost its identity.....

Geheime Signale: Raumsonde Voyager von Aliens entf

Its not the Franco-German Empire you should be worried about but the Aliens who have just seized Voyager spacecraft are now on there way here
They should be here by wednesday I estimate.

I guess its all over, resistence will be useless due to their advanced technology
therefore the best option for all of us is to commit painless sucide.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by El Gordo

The Dail and the Irish nation are very different things, in case you hadn't noticed. I don't really see any advantages to leaving my taxes in the hands of Fianna Fail.

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Yes they are .One is looking for democracy and the other is destroying it.

no prize for guessing,
Westside.

i suppose it's only fair that they perform some sort of due diligence on all member states seeing as without them we'd be pretty fucked right now. Euro skeptic or not you do have to admit that Ireland has got a lot more from the EU than we have put in.

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Originally Posted by monster_monster

i suppose it's only fair that they perform some sort of due diligence on all member states seeing as without them we'd be pretty fucked right now. Euro skeptic or not you do have to admit that Ireland has got a lot more from the EU than we have put in.

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but we just cant afford the latest.We cant afford to give anymore control away.We cant afford to have all Europe in here.We cant afford to help Greece.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

but we just cant afford the latest.We cant afford to give anymore control away.We cant afford to have all Europe in here.We cant afford to help Greece.

Westside.

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whether we can afford it or not is not the problem, we signed up to the EU and must play by the rules to get the benefits. For too long Ireland has been the poor man of Europe with the like of Germany, France and the UK paying for all our new shiny infrastructure (you don't think it was road taxes that paid for the upkeep of our roads ;) ) even during the "Celtic Tiger" we were still depending on handouts. It's now our turn to fork out some cash so we just have to bite the bullet.

in regard to giving them "anymore control" maybe if they had been looking at our books properly over the past 15 or so years none of this current shite would be affecting us so badly. We were an economy based on an over inflated property bubble that for some reason the govt decided was not going to burst so we never planned for the rainy day. When the EU glanced at our books most of this was hidden in some way shape or form so it eventually got really out of hand. Now that we all know where we stand isn't it better off to have outside people looking in properly to make sure the politicians with vested interests don't do this type of thing again.

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Originally Posted by monster_monster

whether we can afford it or not is not the problem,

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we cant afford it.

we dont have the money,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by monster_monster

whether we can afford it or not is not the problem, we signed up to the EU and must play by the rules to get the benefits. For too long Ireland has been the poor man of Europe with the like of Germany, France and the UK paying for all our new shiny infrastructure (you don't think it was road taxes that paid for the upkeep of our roads ;) ) even during the "Celtic Tiger" we were still depending on handouts. It's now our turn to fork out some cash so we just have to bite the bullet.

in regard to giving them "anymore control" maybe if they had been looking at our books properly over the past 15 or so years none of this current shite would be affecting us so badly. We were an economy based on an over inflated property bubble that for some reason the govt decided was not going to burst so we never planned for the rainy day. When the EU glanced at our books most of this was hidden in some way shape or form so it eventually got really out of hand. Now that we all know where we stand isn't it better off to have outside people looking in properly to make sure the politicians with vested interests don't do this type of thing again.

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This is the age old argument that we have got more out of the EU that then have got out of us, forgive my French but utter bollox.

For the last 10 years or so Ireland has been a nett contributor, for anyone who does not understand that it means that we have given more that we have taken.
Also the EU brough us up to a certain standard that we would be able to afford to purchase more goods from
them look at the amount of Mercs and BMW's etc on the road.
The EU is responsible for the shit we are currently in
with the Euro we got cheap money, cheap money and lots of it was thrown at normal workers by the banks etc . Cheap money = property bubble etc.
The EU means we can no longer control our immigration policy = other state non national workers coming to Ireland and taking jobs, at lower rates that indigenous Irish could'nt because we had high mortgages to pay and children to feed.
Its easy for an easter european 20 something to come here share an Apartment with 10 others Pay 100 a month rent, save the rest, stay here for 5 years then fuck off home and buy a gaff over in Eastern europe for 50,000 - 70,000 without a mortgage, while Paddy has to live here for life.

So how exactly have we benefited from the EU ?

The only ppl who have is the Bertie Aherns and his ilk who end up with plum EU jobs

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Originally Posted by seanief1980

Geheime Signale: Raumsonde Voyager von Aliens entf

Its not the Franco-German Empire you should be worried about but the Aliens who have just seized Voyager spacecraft are now on there way here
They should be here by wednesday I estimate.

I guess its all over, resistence will be useless due to their advanced technology
therefore the best option for all of us is to commit painless sucide.

Good luck.

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Great. Just incase there wouldn't be enough bollixollegy in this thread we have this shit..............

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Originally Posted by Smarty

For the last 10 years or so Ireland has been a nett contributor, for anyone who does not understand that it means that we have given more that we have taken.

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And the previous 10 years???

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Also the EU brough us up to a certain standard that we would be able to afford to purchase more goods from
them look at the amount of Mercs and BMW's etc on the road.

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Sorry but nobody brought us to this only ourselves when we turned into a nation of yuppie snobs. Nobody forced us to buy these things with money we didn't have and couldn't pay back.............

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Originally Posted by Smarty

The EU is responsible for the shit we are currently in
with the Euro we got cheap money, cheap money and lots of it was thrown at normal workers by the banks etc . Cheap money = property bubble etc.

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I'm sorry Smarty, but to blame the EU for a mess largely caused by ourselves, all be it in the shadow of a global downturn is a total cop out.............

Nobody forced anybody to take this cheap money that was thrown at them, people created this property bubble themselves.

People couldn't exercise a little common sence and self control themselves???

Sadly no, many couldn't and those who did will now also end up paying the price......

And now they expect the government (the taxpayer, you and I) to bail out individuals who got themselves into trouble with second and third properties because they were stroking their own egos and keeping up with the Joneses..........

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but nobody forced them into this position.........

What about a normal Joe Soap who didn't jump on the property bandwagon, and ride the gravey train. Perhaps a small business owner, creating employment, paying his tax and all the rest, living modestly while people went nuts all around him, the guy who sees all his hard work and money invested in his business, and now sees that business close. Who's going to bail him out??? The government??? Will they fuck...........

I'm not getting into the immigration and Eastern European thing cause that the same thing as the EU. Grand while it suits us................

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry that lots of us are in negative equity and struggle every day to make ends meet but to blame that on the EU because they brought us to that standard is utter BS...........

Smarty I'm not having a go at you here, I really enjoy your posts, I do............

Blame it on the Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, as long as the right people said it was alright to avail of the cheap loans and credit that was being passed out, who was going to say ''no''; the ''powers that be'' knew all along the results of this experiment and waited till the time was right and use it for their own good.

Cheer up, the way it looks, if you hadn't have formed NAMA, Ireland would have been under the mercy of the IMF-maybe that's why they gave credit so freely-to take you back to the days when the English were running things

some good points there Luther, I'm glad someone else in this country has realised that most of the problems we currently face are due to personal greed and don't just point the finger at "The Man".

As for Smarty and his anti immigration Eastern European rant, I wonder if he was thinking about Irish escorts loosing money due to poor immigration as he was hooking up with Czech and Polish girls he met on this site? ;)

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Originally Posted by monster_monster

some good points there Luther, I'm glad someone else in this country has realised that most of the problems we currently face are due to personal greed and don't just point the finger at "The Man".

As for Smarty and his anti immigration Eastern European rant, I wonder if he was thinking about Irish escorts loosing money due to poor immigration as he was hooking up with Czech and Polish girls he met on this site? ;)

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So are you saying that yourself and luther both contributed to some of this through personal greed or is this comment reserved for everyone else?

Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

So are you saying that yourself and luther both contributed to some of this through personal greed or is this comment reserved for everyone else?

Westside.

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of course it's both our fault, it's everyone's fault, just look at all the superficial shite that came out during the celtic tiger, VIP, expose, MTV Cribs etc. everyone bought in to that crap so we all had to stop driving Fords and drive a german car.

I spent most of the celtic tiger working in London and it was just as bad over there because there was already so much money on show before 2000/1 that when cash became more accessible nobody gave a shit they just wanted to party like a millionaire.

We can't spend our whole lives listening to the media blaming everyone else and not once look at ourselves and wonder do I really have to spend €2,000 on my kids communion or is it right to be spending €100 per month on Sky+

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Originally Posted by monster_monster

of course it's both our fault, it's everyone's fault, just look at all the superficial shite that came out during the celtic tiger, VIP, expose, MTV Cribs etc. everyone bought in to that crap so we all had to stop driving Fords and drive a german car.

I spent most of the celtic tiger working in London and it was just as bad over there because there was already so much money on show before 2000/1 that when cash became more accessible nobody gave a shit they just wanted to party like a millionaire.

We can't spend our whole lives listening to the media blaming everyone else and not once look at ourselves and wonder do I really have to spend €2,000 on my kids communion or is it right to be spending €100 per month on Sky+

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Not mine,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

Not mine,
Westside.

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actually it's all your fault and no one else's, I take back everything I said earlier and from now on I am pointing all this countries financial woes straight at you Westie

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

Not mine,
Westside.

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Of course not...........

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Originally Posted by luther

And the previous 10 years???



Sorry but nobody brought us to this only ourselves when we turned into a nation of yuppie snobs. Nobody forced us to buy these things with money we didn't have and couldn't pay back.............



I'm sorry Smarty, but to blame the EU for a mess largely caused by ourselves, all be it in the shadow of a global downturn is a total cop out.............

Nobody forced anybody to take this cheap money that was thrown at them, people created this property bubble themselves.

People couldn't exercise a little common sence and self control themselves???

Sadly no, many couldn't and those who did will now also end up paying the price......

And now they expect the government (the taxpayer, you and I) to bail out individuals who got themselves into trouble with second and third properties because they were stroking their own egos and keeping up with the Joneses..........

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but nobody forced them into this position.........

What about a normal Joe Soap who didn't jump on the property bandwagon, and ride the gravey train. Perhaps a small business owner, creating employment, paying his tax and all the rest, living modestly while people went nuts all around him, the guy who sees all his hard work and money invested in his business, and now sees that business close. Who's going to bail him out??? The government??? Will they fuck...........

I'm not getting into the immigration and Eastern European thing cause that the same thing as the EU. Grand while it suits us................

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry that lots of us are in negative equity and struggle every day to make ends meet but to blame that on the EU because they brought us to that standard is utter BS...........

Smarty I'm not having a go at you here, I really enjoy your posts, I do............

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I respect and like your comments too , Luther

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Originally Posted by Smarty

I respect and like your comments too , Luther

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................:kiss:.................:D

I dont see any justification for blaming the EU for our present ills.

We probably have been a net contributor for less than 10 years, but were a net beneficiary for the previous 30 years.
A lot of the infrastructure that we see here today has been as a result of EU structural/regional/social funding.
As a small open economy of 4.5 million on an island off another island off the EU mainland, we represent less than 1% of the total population and we need them a lot more than they need us.
The decisions regarding taxation, incentives, spending, borrowing, rezoning, lending policy and regulation were taken by Irish people in Ireland.
Many Irish people (not all by any means) were happy to get on the Celtic merry-go-round in order to benefit from property speculation.
Finally, it was'nt unelected EU burocrates or technocrates or foreign politicians who allowed this country to run headlong into a cul-de-sac........it was the people that we elected over the past 3 general elections who were the cheer leaders for that crazy race.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

I dont see any justification for blaming the EU for our present ills.

We probably have been a net contributor for less than 10 years, but were a net beneficiary for the previous 30 years.
A lot of the infrastructure that we see here today has been as a result of EU structural/regional/social funding.
As a small open economy of 4.5 million on an island off another island off the EU mainland, we represent less than 1% of the total population and we need them a lot more than they need us.
The decisions regarding taxation, incentives, spending, borrowing, rezoning, lending policy and regulation were taken by Irish people in Ireland.
Many Irish people (not all by any means) were happy to get on the Celtic merry-go-round in order to benefit from property speculation.
Finally, it was'nt unelected EU burocrates or technocrates or foreign politicians who allowed this country to run headlong into a cul-de-sac........it was the people that we elected over the past 3 general elections who were the cheer leaders for that crazy race.

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Its not so much our present ills but our future ones.

we are giving away our freedom,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

Its not so much our present ills but our future ones.

we are giving away our freedom,
Westside.

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I understand what you mean Westie, but in the same way as a person who wishes to maintain their independence of action including financial independence, should never get over their head in debt, so too should a nation not run up a massive sovereign debt to outside institutions. Given that the Irish exchequer will take in a little over 30 billion in review this year, but spend some 20 odd billion in excess of this, the government can either slash public expenditure by 20 billion and thereby destroy the national infrastructure and social cohesion, which would make Greece look like a tea party, or we can borrow it and give our creditors a say over how we run our affairs. From the perspective of the EU countries that will be contributing most to this fund (France and Germany), one can hardly expect their electorates to accept that their tax Euros are going to be pumped into an Irish or Greek black hole without a quid pro quo in the form of their governments or the EU having some input into Irish policy. Without this, there is no guarantee that an Irish government wont squander French and German taxpayers' Euros in the same way that they have been squandering Irish taxpayers' Euros for the past decade. If you are in debt to an Irish bank, you cannot afford to ignore your bank manager and we cannot afford to ignore the EU.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

I understand what you mean Westie, but in the same way as a person who wishes to maintain their independence of action including financial independence, should never get over their head in debt, so too should a nation not run up a massive sovereign debt to outside institutions. Given that the Irish exchequer will take in a little over 30 billion in review this year, but spend some 20 odd billion in excess of this, the government can either slash public expenditure by 20 billion and thereby destroy the national infrastructure and social cohesion, which would make Greece look like a tea party, or we can borrow it and give our creditors a say over how we run our affairs. From the perspective of the EU countries that will be contributing most to this fund (France and Germany), one can hardly expect their electorates to accept that their tax Euros are going to be pumped into an Irish or Greek black hole without a quid pro quo in the form of their governments or the EU having some input into Irish policy. Without this, there is no guarantee that an Irish government wont squander French and German taxpayers' Euros in the same way that they have been squandering Irish taxpayers' Euros for the past decade. If you are in debt to an Irish bank, you cannot afford to ignore your bank manager and we cannot afford to ignore the EU.

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giving more and more power to the EU is all well and good if it works in our favor.If it doesnt the damage is done as the only way to go back is to leave the EU. We can do it without going further and giving more power to the eU besides they need us to rectify their treaties not that our vote would count in the eyes of our government.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

Ione can hardly expect their electorates to accept that their tax Euros are going to be pumped into an Irish or Greek black hole without a quid pro quo in the form of their governments or the EU having some input into Irish policy. Without this, there is no guarantee that an Irish government wont squander French and German taxpayers' Euros in the same way that they have been squandering Irish taxpayers' Euros for the past decade. .

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Carlos, exactly what you say here will happen.
Its an surrender of our soverenty by stealth.
In the guise of "We need to save the Euro".
If the lads of 1916 saw what was coming down the road they would have run up the white flag, said fuck this for a game of soldiers and went to the pub, which the way we are going is what they should have done.
in 6 years time when we are celebrating the centenary of the 1916 rising, will we have the ceremony in Dublin or Brussels ?

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

I understand what you mean Westie, but in the same way as a person who wishes to maintain their independence of action including financial independence, should never get over their head in debt, so too should a nation not run up a massive sovereign debt to outside institutions. Given that the Irish exchequer will take in a little over 30 billion in review this year, but spend some 20 odd billion in excess of this, the government can either slash public expenditure by 20 billion and thereby destroy the national infrastructure and social cohesion, which would make Greece look like a tea party, or we can borrow it and give our creditors a say over how we run our affairs. From the perspective of the EU countries that will be contributing most to this fund (France and Germany), one can hardly expect their electorates to accept that their tax Euros are going to be pumped into an Irish or Greek black hole without a quid pro quo in the form of their governments or the EU having some input into Irish policy. Without this, there is no guarantee that an Irish government wont squander French and German taxpayers' Euros in the same way that they have been squandering Irish taxpayers' Euros for the past decade. If you are in debt to an Irish bank, you cannot afford to ignore your bank manager and we cannot afford to ignore the EU.

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the voice of reason. whats wrong westie? don't you have a poignant one liner for this?