Irish justice minister may criminalise clients

What effect will this have on escort business in Ireland? Will we all be too scared to visit?
Pushes it all underground?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30555725.html

Terrible article from The Independent.

''Currently, it is illegal in Ireland to work as prostitute but there are not restrictions on the purchase of sex''

Aside from the two grammatical errors in this sentence, how accurate is this statement? Adult prostitution is not illegal in either part of Ireland, although there are laws regarding soliciting and brothel keeping. It's also untrue that there are no restrictions on sex buyers. Kerb crawling or buying sex from underage or trafficked individuals is illegal.

As to the effect criminalisation might have on the local industry, the best thing is to look at Sweden and Norway where these laws have been in place for years. Norway recently estimated (and admitted it was only a rough guess) that indoor sex work had decreased by 10% to 20% over the 5 years the law had been in place. Even as a best guess, that indicates that criminalisation has had relatively little effect. Sweden is little better with over 1000 sex workers still operating and human trafficking increasing by the government's own admission.

It would seem unlikely that the Irish results would be much different and the powers that be are well aware of this. The issue is an attempt by various parties to deflect attention from the multiple rapes, abuse and suspicious deaths carried out by the Irish church, to framework a law around misguided moral outrage and to secure longterm funding for inefficient and ineffective 'rescue organisations.'

As a buyer one would say it might deter some but not all. End result would probably be to increase trafficking and criminal element who as we know follow all laws. No different to drugs laws, if people want to do it they will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hforty69

As a buyer one would say it might deter some but not all. End result would probably be to increase trafficking and criminal element who as we know follow all laws. No different to drugs laws, if people want to do it they will

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I agree, we will hand sex work into the hands of the growing powerful criminal class. That is the aim of groups that only want to be seen as Saviours of poor misguided people,....Rubbish..If sex work is made illegal it will.. these people forget, put them into direct conflict with Ruthless Underworld.. there is enough legislation already, only there are not resourses or genuine interest in protecting service provider or client... This issue raises it's head when political parties or two face hypocrites need publicity at around Budget Time. Intimate Activity is a Personal activity..So it should be legalised and regulated

Earlier today I read the above article in the Irish Independent. It made for some interesting reading.

From The Article
Comment

Currently, it is illegal in Ireland to work as prostitute
It has been highlighted several times that it is not "illegal to work as a prostitute" in Ireland.

but there are not restrictions on the purchase of sex.
There are restrictions on the purchase of sex-it is illegal to purchase sex from an underage person (and both the Gardai and the Courts enforce this rigorously)

It is illegal to purchase sex from a person who is coerced by others (i.e a pimp) to sell sex
(Just wondering, if there are "no restrictions on the purchase of sex", why have there been major Garda operations on the streets of Limerick (and other localities) in recent years which resulted in the arrests (and subsequent court appearances) of clients or "would be clients" of sex workers?

She called on anyone with information to provide it to the relevant authorities.
If I (and I would reckon, the overwhelming majority of the E-I Community) became aware of any person working in this industry being subject to abuse of any kind, from anyone, I would direct the Gardai towards the premises at which I discovered the individual unfortunate enough to be the victim of such appalling circumstances.

The ignorance from the Irish media on this subject would actually be impressive if it wasn't so disturbing. Who needs facts when you have prejudice?

It would depend on the clients situation and if he can afford to take the risk, definitely will put guys from visiting as it would change everything for some

It's a bit like banning horse-racing. Some will say it's cruel to the horse. Ban it, and lots of people will organise races anyway.

Ban it, and the government loses several thousand more votes at the next election.

Ban it, and lose the tax you could make from it!

well there is always ways around Tings,and wee will find it,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomcork

What effect will this have on escort business in Ireland? Will we all be too scared to visit?
Pushes it all underground?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30555725.html

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The one thing all you poor Dudes are missing is that we now have a woman Minister of Justice..."There may be trouble ahead"..:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Larrii

It's a bit like banning horse-racing. Some will say it's cruel to the horse. Ban it, and lots of people will organise races anyway.

Ban it, and the government loses several thousand more votes at the next election.

Ban it, and lose the tax you could make from it!

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Approx 10% of males have punted as a general rule, I suspect in Ireland it may be 15-20%! If the government wants to bring in laws as per the insane joint Oireachtas committee in part equating punters to child molesters (for merely looking at Escort Ireland!) then there will be a reaction at the ballot box, there's only a certain amount of insanity that can be tolerated even in Ireland!

I feel that if this law does come in that there will need to be more trust between the client and the escort.

How can Garda watch every apartment and who is to say if you met in a bar last night or not, even if the lady is an escort. Most ladies do have a sex life outside of work, so it could easily be that. It will not be that simple to enforce.

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, will not condone the naming and shaming of clients. Do they want families broken up and divorces because of this new proposed law?
Abuse and rape may increase as the current outlet that men in Ireland have will decrease.

I believe that if you have a need, then it is better to do so in a non-emotional context with no comeback or pain to the family , rather than entering into an affair or one night stand where in small Ireland , someone may find out and tell someone etc

Just my thoughts. x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by english rebecca

I feel that if this law does come in that there will need to be more trust between the client and the escort.

How can Garda watch every apartment and who is to say if you met in a bar last night or not, even if the lady is an escort. Most ladies do have a sex life outside of work, so it could easily be that. It will not be that simple to enforce.

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, will not condone the naming and shaming of clients. Do they want families broken up and divorces because of this new proposed law?
Abuse and rape may increase as the current outlet that men in Ireland have will decrease.

I believe that if you have a need, then it is better to do so in a non-emotional context with no comeback or pain to the family , rather than entering into an affair or one night stand where in small Ireland , someone may find out and tell someone etc

Just my thoughts. x

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The Catholic church as part of Magdellan-Ruhama is in part behind this whole insane scam! And we would view it as a start to a return to the good old days!:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by english rebecca

I feel that if this law does come in that there will need to be more trust between the client and the escort.

How can Garda watch every apartment and who is to say if you met in a bar last night or not, even if the lady is an escort. Most ladies do have a sex life outside of work, so it could easily be that. It will not be that simple to enforce.

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, will not condone the naming and shaming of clients. Do they want families broken up and divorces because of this new proposed law?
Abuse and rape may increase as the current outlet that men in Ireland have will decrease.

I believe that if you have a need, then it is better to do so in a non-emotional context with no comeback or pain to the family , rather than entering into an affair or one night stand where in small Ireland , someone may find out and tell someone etc

Just my thoughts. x

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One of the questions a pig will ask a client is the actual name of the lady!
But remember the recommendations have suggested (TOTALY UNCONSTITUTIONALLY!) that escorts be forced out of their acommodation as landlords/hotel owners will be prosecuted for living off immoral earnings! Forcing sex workers on to the street will make the activity much more visible and politicians will pay the price! Also it could render sex workers homeless and without phone access!
If you haven't seen the recommendations they are completely insane and mostly unconstitutional!
RE an increase in rapes resulting as a consequence - certainly sex workers will be vastly more at risk of both physical and sexual assault - it's part of the reason why some TORL groups want this, the other is increased funding for themselves!
But Rebecca have you ever encountered a man through your good work who would have been a potential rapist if he wasn't visiting wonderful ladies such as your goodself? I very much doubt it!
In Sweden there are very high levels of rape which is primarily down to a very liberal interpretation of rape (look at Julian assange!) also higher levels of reporting (which is a good thing!) and according to some Swedes letting every Tom, Dick and Harry into their country so easily! I don't think the passing of this legislation will lead to one more case of incest or rape on non sex working women! It is extremely evil bad law designed to hurt and destroy! and absolutely not one shred of good will come from it! But it will be great for Magdellan-Ruhama, ICI, The Catholic church, insane radical feminists all other sex worker haters and traffickers, nasty pimps and psychotic clients and even child molesters (if people who download EI are to be legally equated to child rapists!)!:mad:

And if you own your accommodation and the escort cannot be prosecuted?

The Church may have my faith , but they do not have my support.

Night all, Happy Sunday x

Having been at both the receiving end of a rapist and the receiving end of a client , I would be happy to inform you that it is not too likely. I will say however that there are quite a few clients over the years that show a pathic (Generic as there are many) behaviours that would lead to support the ideology that he could / would become a rapist. You are not the one in that has the personal hands on experience. Having also worked in several other countries, including those with the " Ideal Model" that it can instigate an increase in violent degradation type of behaviour towards women.
I wasnt asking for an attack, hence why I quoted and I will requote " In my opinion".

Walk a week in an escort's shoes in Ireland and you will find that there are lovely gents as norm, but certainly those individuals who you will put a question mark to as if you were not strong minded with them ,what would they actually be capable of?

Live and learn my friend.

No need to reply as I am only expressing an opinion.

Totally agree....Well spoken Rebecca.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by english rebecca

I feel that if this law does come in that there will need to be more trust between the client and the escort.

How can Garda watch every apartment and who is to say if you met in a bar last night or not, even if the lady is an escort. Most ladies do have a sex life outside of work, so it could easily be that. It will not be that simple to enforce.

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, will not condone the naming and shaming of clients. Do they want families broken up and divorces because of this new proposed law?
Abuse and rape may increase as the current outlet that men in Ireland have will decrease.

I believe that if you have a need, then it is better to do so in a non-emotional context with no comeback or pain to the family , rather than entering into an affair or one night stand where in small Ireland , someone may find out and tell someone etc

Just my thoughts. x

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Libertarian

The Catholic church as part of Magdellan-Ruhama is in part behind this whole insane scam! And we would view it as a start to a return to the good old days!:mad:

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The Catholic Church is a Marxist organisation these days run by lesbian nuns on the ground and homosexual figureheads called Cardinals. They find the idea of sex between a man and woman disgusting, even good old Catholic sex between a man and woman in marriage without contraception! The Catholic Church gave up Catholicism after Vatican II.

The escort could always come to the punters place especially if he is single that way it wouldn't be as risky to get arrested

im sorry but correct me if im wrong

we pay for time and companionship ? correct , we do not purchase sex so this should not affect us unless you go to see prostitutes

its like saying i go to the dentist and pay him to work on my teeth but he gives me drugs to num the pain does this mean i paid for drugs ?

no i paid to see the dentist and it happens that this happend while i was there in the consult

The EU's anti trafficking coordinator was in Dublin this week and met with the justice minister and the minister has vowed to go ahead with this Bill by reducing the demand so thats by criminalising the clients.
The immigration council chief Denise Charltion welcome ed the comments also and said that action is need sooner rather than later.

Big story on BBC 2 Newsnight yesterday on Asian and African "wives" who are arranged-married to cousins in Britain and become unpaid skivvies and sex slaves and are often beaten up. That's all legal, and because they're from abroad there's a fear that if anyone looks into it they'll be considered racist.

One solicitor has seen over 100 such ladies this year.

The police attitude is, we can't prosecute, it's his word against yours. That's trafficking and sex abuse as well. Does it happen here?

:/ Italy's issue absolutely makes it cLear trafficking is a matter of border control and faster processing of immigrants. Increased efficiency in that ddepartment surely must be cheaper than a useless piece of legislation drafted for the sole reason of lining their pockets at the tax payers expense.

Ha.

In the real world how will a Garda prove that sex was paid for? If both client and escort deny that sex took place or that money changed hands how can they prove otherwise unless standing in the room at the time. Also I presume the law will only cover penetrative sex and maybe oral which would leave a host of other methods not covered. Also if the escort says she was providing a massage and the client says this was what he was paying for how can they prove otherwise?
This is just to make "moral " Ireland feel like "something is been done about that kind of thing" but in reality will have little effect once people realise how easy it will be to get around.
Paying for sex has been around for centuries and if Francis Fitzgearld or anyone else think they have found a way to stop it they are deluded.

I would like to draw attention to the following article

http://www.thejournal.ie/sex-workers...31445-Oct2014/

From the article
Comment

A new survey released by Northern Ireland’s Department of Justice has revealed that 98% of sex workers are against criminalising the purchase of sex.
In both Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland, Sex Sorkers (as well as clients, for that matter) have been vehemently denied the opportunity to put forth testimony to highlight the severe (and well documented) negative implications which result from implementation of the proposed Legislative Model. I believe it should be highlighted in mainstream media that Sex Workers were (and still are) being denied the opportunity to voice their concerns in this regard.

This would make buying, rather than selling, sex illegal.
"Selling of sex" is about the only aspect of this Legislative Model from which Sex Workers are "liberated" (for want of a better term [and I use the term "liberated" very loosley]);for example there are still intracicies within Swedish-style Legislation which enable the eviction of Sex Workers from their operational premises (if said premises also happens to be the Sex Worker's rented home, this could lead to homelessness). This is only one negative implication of Swedish-style Legislation.

Speaking today, Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald said she is examining the Nordic model.

“Many of you will be aware of the Nordic approach to legislation concerning prostitution which focuses on the criminalisation of the purchase of sex,” she said.

"I am examining very carefully the potential for legislative measures of this kind to support our efforts to reduce human trafficking".

It has been outlined that prostitution and human trafficking are two entirely seperate entities. This also needs to be highlighted and emphasised (it also needs to be highlighted that Swedish-style Legislation has actually benefited human scum such as pimps and human traffickers).

The Sex Workers Association of Ireland (SWAI) said this evening that they are eager to speak with Minister Fitzgerald on the issue.

“It is essential that she meets with the people whose lives and livelihood are being discussed, as it must be made clear that we are very opposed to this proposed legislation,” a statement read.

I believe it is paramount that the SWAI and Independent Sex Workers contact the Minister in order to highlight the negative implications Swedish-style Legislation would impose on all concerned.

Members of SWAI more than likely cannot vote in Ireland so I doubt the minister will pay much attention to them apart from telling them this legislation will be for their" own good".
Irelands default position with all problems is to either ban it or export it,whether it be sex, books, abortion, unemployment,drugs or anything else that impinges on our "wholesome" image. It wasnt that long ago when Irish courts gave people the choice of jail or going to England.

More than likely, by the end of next week it will be illegal to pay for sex in Northern Ireland. And seemingly both Sinn Féin and the DUP (who made the proposal) are both in agreement over this one. :eek:


Considering Sinn Féin have 14 TD's in the Dáil, their agreement on the legislation in the North will also work to their political advantage in the South. And I'm sure increase their appeal to some of the more 'moral' voters out there.

Where as the initial debate and media coverage seemed to be all about human trafficking, it now only seems to be about paying for sex, and that being made illegal. Unfortunately most of the politicians in the North are bonkers, and while the police announced last week that they'll probably have to cut back on community policing and other services, seemingly they'll now be in a situation where they have to devote resources to pursing anyone paying for sex. While the politicians can't get an agreement on how to budget for the issues that affect everyone in the North, such as hospitals, healthcare, education.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Equalizer

I would like to draw attention to the following article

http://www.thejournal.ie/sex-workers...31445-Oct2014/

From the article
Comment

A new survey released by Northern Ireland’s Department of Justice has revealed that 98% of sex workers are against criminalising the purchase of sex.
In both Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland, Sex Sorkers (as well as clients, for that matter) have been vehemently denied the opportunity to put forth testimony to highlight the severe (and well documented) negative implications which result from implementation of the proposed Legislative Model. I believe it should be highlighted in mainstream media that Sex Workers were (and still are) being denied the opportunity to voice their concerns in this regard.

This would make buying, rather than selling, sex illegal.
"Selling of sex" is about the only aspect of this Legislative Model from which Sex Workers are "liberated" (for want of a better term [and I use the term "liberated" very loosley]);for example there are still intracicies within Swedish-style Legislation which enable the eviction of Sex Workers from their operational premises (if said premises also happens to be the Sex Worker's rented home, this could lead to homelessness). This is only one negative implication of Swedish-style Legislation.

Speaking today, Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald said she is examining the Nordic model.

“Many of you will be aware of the Nordic approach to legislation concerning prostitution which focuses on the criminalisation of the purchase of sex,” she said.

"I am examining very carefully the potential for legislative measures of this kind to support our efforts to reduce human trafficking".

It has been outlined that prostitution and human trafficking are two entirely seperate entities. This also needs to be highlighted and emphasised (it also needs to be highlighted that Swedish-style Legislation has actually benefited human scum such as pimps and human traffickers).

The Sex Workers Association of Ireland (SWAI) said this evening that they are eager to speak with Minister Fitzgerald on the issue.

“It is essential that she meets with the people whose lives and livelihood are being discussed, as it must be made clear that we are very opposed to this proposed legislation,” a statement read.

I believe it is paramount that the SWAI and Independent Sex Workers contact the Minister in order to highlight the negative implications Swedish-style Legislation would impose on all concerned.

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The study was rubbished by the DUP within a few hours of publication. I am pretty sure that they hadn't really had the time to have read the whole 230+ pages of the study, digest it and discuss this with the rest of their party. And Sinn Féin backing the proposal before seeing the evidence...?

The gardai suddenly back-tracking their statement saying that this bill would be impossible to police?

Makes you wonder :rolleyes:

So I'm sitting at a club and guy asks me "know why they're called cocktails?"
Why says I
"because Cock...in...tail"


...the guards will have a hell of a time with this one .