Billy Keogh – Irish Justice Vs. Natural Justice...

High, I hope this is coherent as it’s made my blood boil...

I read a report of the Judges comment’s on this Billy Keogh (Ironic Name given that William means to give protection) His comment’s have just gone to confirm what I’ve always believed, that’s there is scant justice for Women in these ordeals, as always there is the obligatory image of these men smirking or sneering on there way in and out of court, doesn’t really do much to convince anyone of there supposed remorse, but they are animals, and without the decency or brainpower to even try to look anything other then vile. But you would expect more (still waiting) from a Judge.

Mr. Justice Barry (can’t get enough of your love baby) White said and I quote ‘’Clearly a man of good Character and he was Impressed by how he have rebuilt his business, that he had an elderly Mother and seven employee’s dependent on him. end quote,

JESUS JESUS JESUS where do start with what’s wrong there.

Firstly it show’s in dazzling clarity the inability to see the viciousness of such an act by cloistered elderly men who she Rape as a definition in a Law book and not the reality and implications of the act itself and lean exclusively to the Perpetrator and in particular if he is a man of mean’s and/or if the Woman is in the Sex Industry, and there’s definitely an air of it’s not Rape if he’s paying. For me Rape starts when the Woman say’s no and He/they don’t stop, regardless of circumstances. He also tried to throw her out of a window, what was his defense there... it was a fetish she enjoyed ?. I have a deep suspicion also that there is cronyism at work in some case’s.

I’ll give you an Example, without naming anyone, as you’ll know who I mean,

There was a case a few years ago of a well known East Cork cookery school owner who was convicted of possessing indecent images of Children, He of course threw money at it and got of very lightly, and I don’t recall an apology either, but what is not very well known is that the presiding Judge was before this, and still is a very regular Diner at the accused/convicted extensive estate and restaurant and is very well looked after, JUSTISE IS BLIND ??? Yeah right Money talks, Bastard’s walk.

A Rapist is a Rapist, whatever his Bank Balance, but there is something particularly insidious when a Man of mean’s throw’s money at the Victim to make it go away, and is just as detrimental to the fundamental’s of Justice as the activity’s of Criminal entity’s intimidating witness’s to gangland crime. They just have smarter suites...

I don’t care if Billy Keogh before this, came up with a cure for Cancer, a formula for Eurovision success or a non invasive way of getting Bono to shut up, that all count’s for nothing when you prove yourself capable of such an act, he also threw Money at his Victim, to Her eternal credit refused, and elevates her in direct proportion to how it lowers him in his callous Celtic tiger assumption that that’s all it would take to make his temporary little problem go away...

As to having dependent Employees, Christ...you follow that logic and Michael O Leary should be allowed to blow up a planeload of passenger’s because of the employment he creates, That’s purely the judge trying to give justification to his sentence (sentence ? 18 month’s is not even a syllable) as for the poor woman that spawned him, I have sympathy for her but more for the Victims Mother as he alone created this and should at least have had the decency, if he is such respected businessman to admit it and spare the Woman from having to give evidence, (He should have been given 18 months for that alone as it is just as much another assault on Her) how could a man ever look his Mother or Partner in the eye again.

There was the case of that poor Polish Woman in the Church grounds, a Priest came out again and defended him, oh before this he was a grand lad, nothing to much trouble, allway’s a good word, yadda yadda yadda, the same rule applies, what you were before should not play a part for undue leniency of such a serious crime

What is it in the upper echelons of the Court’s and a lot of Priest’s in the Church that finds it so difficult to condemn outright this act and make severe examples of them, both in law and lay arena’s. It can only be interpreted by people capable of this that it’s OK, the lads (and therefore the system) will see me right...some might say they are only allowed give term’s of certain length’s, fair enough, so change the parameters of sentencing. That could not be too hard.

I personally believe that there is no sentence that would redress even remotely adequately what has been taken and done to any Victim, but we have to have sentences that would deter and resonate in even the dullest of brains, I myself would favor 20 years mandatory with a lesser sentence if Rapist agreed to Chemical Castration, those are his choices, his victim had none. Some might say that’s extreme, I’d say it’s easy to avoid, just don’t do it.


Look at what a Rapist is effectively saying to Woman...

Your are just a receptacle for a few minutes gratification.
You will have no say in the matter, no right to resist
You will be left with possible pregnancy/std’s and other consequences, while I walk away
I have the power to condemn you and your family to a life sentence with no hope of parole

Look at what a Rapist is effectively saying to Society in general...

I feel free to wander the streets and at my choosing irreversibly alter someone’s life.
I do not have to conform to the norms of society
I reject the notion of other’s having right’s, but I expect them for me.
I opt out of civilized behavior momentarily at my discretion, but opt in to being treated almost deferentially by the system.


I’ve always believed that the courts are empowered by all of us to set the bar of what is expected of a citizen and what a citizen can expect from the state and any transgression is not acceptable and a punishment fitting to the crime will follow, this just does not happen in sexual assault case’s and I feel actually contributes to the rising level of such crime, this won’t be the last such instance...

More crudely I’d sum it up by saying to potential Rapist’s, You are a fucking Citizen whether you or we like it or not and you have obligations to Society, and if you can’t conform to the norm’s, we bring the Hammer down Hard...If the courts don’t start dispensing punishment to match the crime, then it’s just a matter of time before someone dispenses Natural Justice. I Hope and pray that Keogh and his kind become the focus of the Attention of the biggest, Hairiest Horniest Inmate in there and they get a taste of not having a say in the matter and how they like it. I would also insure that if I were related to a Victim that he knew that I wished him to enjoy and indeed savor everyday of his short sentence as everyday he spent inside, would be a day I spend thinking up new way’s to inflict pain on him when I got my hand’s on him, I might never do that, but they don’t have to know that, and it might concentrate his mind on his action’s and give an insight into never being able to fully put it behind you as the Victim can’t.


Shame on the perpetrator, he affected Some, shame on the Judge, His light sentence affect’s us all...

If you read all that, Thank You.

While I am in general agreement with you quarterpoundher, just one salient point. We elected the politicians who made the laws or, who as a government, appointed the judges who developed case law.

If the laws of this land, as applied in courts, are more lenient towards white collar criminals, middle class criminals etc., it is because the people we elect and their appointees to the judicary are more comfortable with this scenario. At the end the day, only we have the sovereign right every 4 or 5 years to do something to radically change the system. Regretfully, we sit on our hands and moan, while the most underprivileged and vulnerable sectors of society continue to get a raw deal.

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Originally Posted by Quarterpoundher

High, I hope this is coherent as it’s made my blood boil...

I read a report of the Judges comment’s on this Billy Keogh (Ironic Name given that William means to give protection) His comment’s have just gone to confirm what I’ve always believed, that’s there is scant justice for Women in these ordeals, as always there is the obligatory image of these men smirking or sneering on there way in and out of court, doesn’t really do much to convince anyone of there supposed remorse, but they are animals, and without the decency or brainpower to even try to look anything other then vile. But you would expect more (still waiting) from a Judge.

Mr. Justice Barry (can’t get enough of your love baby) White said and I quote ‘’Clearly a man of good Character and he was Impressed by how he have rebuilt his business, that he had an elderly Mother and seven employee’s dependent on him. end quote,

JESUS JESUS JESUS where do start with what’s wrong there.

Firstly it show’s in dazzling clarity the inability to see the viciousness of such an act by cloistered elderly men who she Rape as a definition in a Law book and not the reality and implications of the act itself and lean exclusively to the Perpetrator and in particular if he is a man of mean’s and/or if the Woman is in the Sex Industry, and there’s definitely an air of it’s not Rape if he’s paying. For me Rape starts when the Woman say’s no and He/they don’t stop, regardless of circumstances. He also tried to throw her out of a window, what was his defense there... it was a fetish she enjoyed ?. I have a deep suspicion also that there is cronyism at work in some case’s.

I’ll give you an Example, without naming anyone, as you’ll know who I mean,

There was a case a few years ago of a well known East Cork cookery school owner who was convicted of possessing indecent images of Children, He of course threw money at it and got of very lightly, and I don’t recall an apology either, but what is not very well known is that the presiding Judge was before this, and still is a very regular Diner at the accused/convicted extensive estate and restaurant and is very well looked after, JUSTISE IS BLIND ??? Yeah right Money talks, Bastard’s walk.

A Rapist is a Rapist, whatever his Bank Balance, but there is something particularly insidious when a Man of mean’s throw’s money at the Victim to make it go away, and is just as detrimental to the fundamental’s of Justice as the activity’s of Criminal entity’s intimidating witness’s to gangland crime. They just have smarter suites...

I don’t care if Billy Keogh before this, came up with a cure for Cancer, a formula for Eurovision success or a non invasive way of getting Bono to shut up, that all count’s for nothing when you prove yourself capable of such an act, he also threw Money at his Victim, to Her eternal credit refused, and elevates her in direct proportion to how it lowers him in his callous Celtic tiger assumption that that’s all it would take to make his temporary little problem go away...

As to having dependent Employees, Christ...you follow that logic and Michael O Leary should be allowed to blow up a planeload of passenger’s because of the employment he creates, That’s purely the judge trying to give justification to his sentence (sentence ? 18 month’s is not even a syllable) as for the poor woman that spawned him, I have sympathy for her but more for the Victims Mother as he alone created this and should at least have had the decency, if he is such respected businessman to admit it and spare the Woman from having to give evidence, (He should have been given 18 months for that alone as it is just as much another assault on Her) how could a man ever look his Mother or Partner in the eye again.

There was the case of that poor Polish Woman in the Church grounds, a Priest came out again and defended him, oh before this he was a grand lad, nothing to much trouble, allway’s a good word, yadda yadda yadda, the same rule applies, what you were before should not play a part for undue leniency of such a serious crime

What is it in the upper echelons of the Court’s and a lot of Priest’s in the Church that finds it so difficult to condemn outright this act and make severe examples of them, both in law and lay arena’s. It can only be interpreted by people capable of this that it’s OK, the lads (and therefore the system) will see me right...some might say they are only allowed give term’s of certain length’s, fair enough, so change the parameters of sentencing. That could not be too hard.

I personally believe that there is no sentence that would redress even remotely adequately what has been taken and done to any Victim, but we have to have sentences that would deter and resonate in even the dullest of brains, I myself would favor 20 years mandatory with a lesser sentence if Rapist agreed to Chemical Castration, those are his choices, his victim had none. Some might say that’s extreme, I’d say it’s easy to avoid, just don’t do it.


Look at what a Rapist is effectively saying to Woman...

Your are just a receptacle for a few minutes gratification.
You will have no say in the matter, no right to resist
You will be left with possible pregnancy/std’s and other consequences, while I walk away
I have the power to condemn you and your family to a life sentence with no hope of parole

Look at what a Rapist is effectively saying to Society in general...

I feel free to wander the streets and at my choosing irreversibly alter someone’s life.
I do not have to conform to the norms of society
I reject the notion of other’s having right’s, but I expect them for me.
I opt out of civilized behavior momentarily at my discretion, but opt in to being treated almost deferentially by the system.


I’ve always believed that the courts are empowered by all of us to set the bar of what is expected of a citizen and what a citizen can expect from the state and any transgression is not acceptable and a punishment fitting to the crime will follow, this just does not happen in sexual assault case’s and I feel actually contributes to the rising level of such crime, this won’t be the last such instance...

More crudely I’d sum it up by saying to potential Rapist’s, You are a fucking Citizen whether you or we like it or not and you have obligations to Society, and if you can’t conform to the norm’s, we bring the Hammer down Hard...If the courts don’t start dispensing punishment to match the crime, then it’s just a matter of time before someone dispenses Natural Justice. I Hope and pray that Keogh and his kind become the focus of the Attention of the biggest, Hairiest Horniest Inmate in there and they get a taste of not having a say in the matter and how they like it. I would also insure that if I were related to a Victim that he knew that I wished him to enjoy and indeed savor everyday of his short sentence as everyday he spent inside, would be a day I spend thinking up new way’s to inflict pain on him when I got my hand’s on him, I might never do that, but they don’t have to know that, and it might concentrate his mind on his action’s and give an insight into never being able to fully put it behind you as the Victim can’t.


Shame on the perpetrator, he affected Some, shame on the Judge, His light sentence affect’s us all...

If you read all that, Thank You.

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Yeah, powerful words no doubt.......if Billy Keogh was REALLY guilty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Langer

Yeah, powerful words no doubt.......if Billy Keogh was REALLY guilty.

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jesus my thoughts on this arent suitable for the internet.All i can say is im getting my head sand blasted for a hallo when i die.

And im no angel,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

While I am in general agreement with you quarterpoundher, just one salient point. We elected the politicians who made the laws or, who as a government, appointed the judges who developed case law.

If the laws of this land, as applied in courts, are more lenient towards white collar criminals, middle class criminals etc., it is because the people we elect and their appointees to the judicary are more comfortable with this scenario. At the end the day, only we have the sovereign right every 4 or 5 years to do something to radically change the system. Regretfully, we sit on our hands and moan, while the most underprivileged and vulnerable sectors of society continue to get a raw deal.

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High Carlos, I agree with you the election’s we have and subsequent appointment’s do have a self-perpetuating tendency all right, and although should not guarantee a status quo, seem to gravitate to it. On the Salient point, you mentioned, I was going to expand on that but thought I had rattled on enough and just condensed it to the term ‘’empowered by us’’ of course yes we empower them though a third Party and not directtly. I just feel that the sentences imposed for crimes against the Person, be they Sexual, GBH, aggravated burglary, general thugery have become to ‘’Watered down’’ to the level of punishment to people convicted of crimes against property, no disrespect to people who suffer material loss, just that more is thought of Material loss in Court then crimes against the person, and that’s a dangerous message for the Court’s to be sending out. Sentences for Crimes against the Person need to several orders of magnitude higher to highlight their different importance. If were ever going to stop the spiral of violence that is becoming the norm now, we have to make severe and sustained example’s of people, and also I think impress on the next generation, though curriculum if necessary the concept of what or obligations are to each other and not just on what society is obliged to provide. Large sections of the Celtic tiger generation are beyond redemption in regard to this concept, its me me me, I want, I need, I get.



To Langer, I’m sure the Guards and PPP did not just take the Woman’s word as Gospel, I’m confident that there was a body of Forensic and other evidence put forward. And even leaving aside this case the main thrust of my post is about the leniency that always seems to follow. I hope your not saying it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved?.

Quote
To Langer, I’m sure the Guards and PPP did not just take the Woman’s word as Gospel, I’m confident that there was a body of Forensic and other evidence put forward. And even leaving aside this case the main thrust of my post is about the leniency that always seems to follow. I hope your not saying it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved?.[/QUOTE]





Firstly you seem to put a lot of faith in the Guards and DPP. I would at a guess think that 95% of people in jail convicted themselves. The Guards in general secure convictions by promising anyone in an interrogation room "that we'll go lighly on you if you just admit it". Because if the truth be told when it comes to detection work they couldn't track an elephant thru freshly fallen snow. You may correct me if I'm wrong but you give me the impression that you have never sat in the wrong seat in an interrogation room. If you had, you would know that the Guards have absolutely no interest in proving innocence and the DPP less. If you end up in that room they will pull out all the stops to prove you guilty. If you just happen to be innocent then you become a serious nuisance. Because now its going to take more work to get a conviction. The sole reason they are in that room is to secure a conviction..there is no option for being innocent. I don't know Billy Keogh anymore than I know you but I know the people of that agency. If it were a blind bet on who is telling the truth...I'd throw my money on Mr Keogh....of course that does not make Mr Keogh innocent.

Which word or words of my previous 11 word post made you think I might be suggesting "it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved"? All women/men are entitled to the same degree of respect .....full stop.

My 11 word post may have sounded cynical.... because it was. This is not a perfect world (for those of you that haven't noticed), if it were newpapers would actually print the truth, Cops would not try and discredit the innocent and the guilty would be punished proportionatly etc etc etc.... or is that just me being my old cynical self.

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Originally Posted by Langer

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To Langer, I’m sure the Guards and PPP did not just take the Woman’s word as Gospel, I’m confident that there was a body of Forensic and other evidence put forward. And even leaving aside this case the main thrust of my post is about the leniency that always seems to follow. I hope your not saying it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved?.

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Firstly you seem to put a lot of faith in the Guards and DPP. I would at a guess think that 95% of people in jail convicted themselves. The Guards in general secure convictions by promising anyone in an interrogation room "that we'll go lighly on you if you just admit it". Because if the truth be told when it comes to detection work they couldn't track an elephant thru freshly fallen snow. You may correct me if I'm wrong but you give me the impression that you have never sat in the wrong seat in an interrogation room. If you had, you would know that the Guards have absolutely no interest in proving innocence and the DPP less. If you end up in that room they will pull out all the stops to prove you guilty. If you just happen to be innocent then you become a serious nuisance. Because now its going to take more work to get a conviction. The sole reason they are in that room is to secure a conviction..there is no option for being innocent. I don't know Billy Keogh anymore than I know you but I know the people of that agency. If it were a blind bet on who is telling the truth...I'd throw my money on Mr Keogh....of course that does not make Mr Keogh innocent.

Which word or words of my previous 11 word post made you think I might be suggesting "it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved"? All women/men are entitled to the same degree of respect .....full stop.

My 11 word post may have sounded cynical.... because it was. This is not a perfect world (for those of you that haven't noticed), if it were newpapers would actually print the truth, Cops would not try and discredit the innocent and the guilty would be punished proportionatly etc etc etc.... or is that just me being my old cynical self.[/QUOTE]

High... I do put a lot of faith in the Guards and DPP, they are in the main honest and doing an increasingly difficult and dangerous job. I don’t doubt there are bad apple’s but a few bad one’s (and just one can do huge damage, Donegal for instance) could not account for the five percent that you say had the screw’s put on them. You say they will pull out all the stops to prove you guilty, isn’t that what there supposed to do as long as those stops are legal, what about the little matter of interviews being recorded.

You said If it were a blind bet on who is telling the truth...I'd throw my money on Keogh and you say the sole object is to get a body, anybody in jail for it, then why would a corrupt Guard make his job a lot harder and go for someone whose demographic would make it harder to get a conviction?

I’m not in an Ivory tower here, I have never been in trouble with the law, but in my youth and during harder times I did poach the Duke’s Salmon and had a blast doing it, I make no apologies for it as I’m Nationalist in outlook and have a rebellious streak, no-one ever got hurt and I never got caught, I was often within feet of being caught and was once chased for 6 hour’s one night, by what seemed like the entire Southern Reg. Fish Board (again I had a blast) if they had managed to corner me I would have put up my hands and said fair cop. I only did it to survive and on a small scale but I know of one Guard who actually diverted traffic so that several Arctic’s could load up with Salmon from several Trawlers that were under the protection of The provisionl’s back in the day. And the Fisheries officers would pass them out of fear and chase me instead for the Day when all I had was a 12 foot boat and a pair of Wellies,

So please don’t insinuate that I don’t know how the world works, I do, but I don’t buy that the majority of Guards are doing a good cop/bad cop routine, and in fairness there detection rate’s are good given the volume of there workload.

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Originally Posted by Quarterpoundher

Firstly you seem to put a lot of faith in the Guards and DPP. I would at a guess think that 95% of people in jail convicted themselves. The Guards in general secure convictions by promising anyone in an interrogation room "that we'll go lighly on you if you just admit it". Because if the truth be told when it comes to detection work they couldn't track an elephant thru freshly fallen snow. You may correct me if I'm wrong but you give me the impression that you have never sat in the wrong seat in an interrogation room. If you had, you would know that the Guards have absolutely no interest in proving innocence and the DPP less. If you end up in that room they will pull out all the stops to prove you guilty. If you just happen to be innocent then you become a serious nuisance. Because now its going to take more work to get a conviction. The sole reason they are in that room is to secure a conviction..there is no option for being innocent. I don't know Billy Keogh anymore than I know you but I know the people of that agency. If it were a blind bet on who is telling the truth...I'd throw my money on Mr Keogh....of course that does not make Mr Keogh innocent.

Which word or words of my previous 11 word post made you think I might be suggesting "it’s not possible to rape someone when remuneration is involved"? All women/men are entitled to the same degree of respect .....full stop.

My 11 word post may have sounded cynical.... because it was. This is not a perfect world (for those of you that haven't noticed), if it were newpapers would actually print the truth, Cops would not try and discredit the innocent and the guilty would be punished proportionatly etc etc etc.... or is that just me being my old cynical self.

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High... I do put a lot of faith in the Guards and DPP, they are in the main honest and doing an increasingly difficult and dangerous job. I don’t doubt there are bad apple’s but a few bad one’s (and just one can do huge damage, Donegal for instance) could not account for the five percent that you say had the screw’s put on them. You say they will pull out all the stops to prove you guilty, isn’t that what there supposed to do as long as those stops are legal, what about the little matter of interviews being recorded.

You said If it were a blind bet on who is telling the truth...I'd throw my money on Keogh and you say the sole object is to get a body, anybody in jail for it, then why would a corrupt Guard make his job a lot harder and go for someone whose demographic would make it harder to get a conviction?

I’m not in an Ivory tower here, I have never been in trouble with the law, but in my youth and during harder times I did poach the Duke’s Salmon and had a blast doing it, I make no apologies for it as I’m Nationalist in outlook and have a rebellious streak, no-one ever got hurt and I never got caught, I was often within feet of being caught and was once chased for 6 hour’s one night, by what seemed like the entire Southern Reg. Fish Board (again I had a blast) if they had managed to corner me I would have put up my hands and said fair cop. I only did it to survive and on a small scale but I know of one Guard who actually diverted traffic so that several Arctic’s could load up with Salmon from several Trawlers that were under the protection of The provisionl’s back in the day. And the Fisheries officers would pass them out of fear and chase me instead for the Day when all I had was a 12 foot boat and a pair of Wellies,

So please don’t insinuate that I don’t know how the world works, I do, but I don’t buy that the majority of Guards are doing a good cop/bad cop routine, and in fairness there detection rate’s are good given the volume of there workload.[/QUOTE]


Recorded interviews are perfect for the strong willed and equally perfect for the Guards when the subject is not. It is the time before the recorded interview...the time when they come to arrest you and the time between interviews. It is in those times you will be shown your options and given your 'chance'. It will be explained to you if you should plead your innocence during a recorded interview the judge will see it as massive arrogance. You will be told 'do yourself a favour, dont be awkward, just tell us you done and we will put in a good word and the judge will go easy on you' A very tempting offer for an already frightened Joe Soap.

You said 'they are in the main honest and doing an increasingly difficult and dangerous job.' Yes they are doing a very difficult job..in the main honest?? Well thats debatable because everyone of them knows how it works and though they may not blatantly frame a suspect they will accept the conviction of a innocent man. It is the way within the Guards, they all know how it works but not one will try and stop an unfair conviction. Much the same as when priests were exposed for abusing children...Do you really believe that the perpetrators of the abuse were the only ones that knew? They ALL knew but some were not doing it so they were doing nothing wrong. How many priests stood up and blew the whistle or rocked the boat...NONE.... that I am aware of. Do you really believe its any different in the Guards? Because if it every came down to it and it probably never will that they all had to account for their actions. Both the 'upstanding' cops and the 'others' would give the famous old line 'I was just following orders'

'poaching the Duke’s Salmon' is not even a crime, its an amusing distraction and 'if they had managed to corner you' you would at worst have got a pittance of a fine. So yes I would suggest you live in an ivory tower and I would insinuate you have a 'rosy' view of how the world works and long may it last for you. But I would respectfully ask that you don't come on here and try and shove down our throats 'how the world works' according to you. Because it does not work that way for everyone nor do the same rules or breaks apply.

High Langer, I take back my monosyllabic comment and thanks for responding, I disagree strongly with the endemic culture you suggest, but I hope you spotted but forgot to acknowledge that I agree and know that there are bad apples, but that the barrel itself retains its integrity as does the majority of it's content's, I gave an example of a bad apple, and I think most people would agree that its about as serious a betrayal to the oath an officer makes to society when an instrument of the state actively aids and abets a terrorist organizations fundraising activity’s I’ll give you a more lighthearted example from the other end of the spectrum, there was also a Guard I know off that was building his house and actively targeted people while out on Drink driving duty anyone he knew was in the pub and could ‘’facilitate’’ his building requirements. IE a pure sap driving for the local quarry is pulled and in a conversational manner it is suggested to call round his way during the week and accidentally lose a load and there’ll be no more about it, that’s like something you’d see in an episode of Ballykissangel and we all know it goes on. I also agree with you and stated clearly in my Post that Men of means get treated differently, it ‘s postcode justice and it stinks to high heaven.

You equated the Church with the Guards here, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE COMPARISON. I won’t go into detail about the Church as I could write a book on the contempt I have for how they closed ranks and used the resources of the Church to battle every inch of the way any hope of justice and reform of there organization and is why I will never set foot inside a church again. They actively facilitated pedophile priests by moving them from one parish to another with no regard for the new coomunity they condemned to a new nightmare. What better set of curcumtances could a newly minted pedo require then that provided by the church, a position of trust in the community, access to children, and if the heat builds, whisked away to a retreat, say ten hail Mary’s and be sent to a new area, the worst crimes ever committed in Ireland are those committed by the church in facilitating this, but I will not have the Guards lumped in with them.

To my own dalliance with crime, I should point out that in those days anyone caught was almost guaranteed a hiding as you would always be in a remote area, at night, no witness’s and had caused them substantial physical exertion and there blood was up and as a result lines where crossed. Also the caliber required to become a fisheries officer was much less then to become a Guard, and they were, almost to a man Anglers themselves and had a vested interest, and were not above poaching themselves. They also have more powers then Guards in some ways as they can come into your home and turn it over without a warrant and at will. To my only getting a small fine, yes that’s true on a first offense E500 + Court costs roughly, (not a pittance but bearable.) but if caught a second time a custodial sentence is applicable and so by definition is a crime, I admit I was breaking the law, but I saw it as only affecting the Duke whom I have strong views on him having exclusive rights to Irish water. In fact if the River right’s were purely to the state, I wouldn’t have done it.

I apologize if you feel I should move up the league table of crime in order to have a view on it. That’s like saying only people with a shot at being a professional footballer can comment on a Match.
And if only serious Criminals are allowed voice an opinion, then were all truly up S**T creek and are rapidly running out of paddle’s.

As to living in an Ivory tower, Langer.....I’m smiling, and I’ll leave it go as you don’t know me, nor I you, but I can assure you I have had long experience with the Grey area’s of life and the darker side to the soul and is the reason I hold so strong a view on crime’s against Woman in particular, I’ve been at the coal face.
I left the illusion of everything being black and white at primary school, but at a young age made a conscious decision to not become cynical,

Please don’t voice a view of me based solely on a few posts, you can infer a lot from what is said, but you cannot know the whole person, I could infer from your post that you almost have your own Post Office box number in the Interview room, but I won’t.

As for everything being rosy in the garden...
I am of the belief that the first responsibility of anyone is not necessarily to perform some Kennedy type ask not what your country can do for you type contribution, but simply to not cause another person either
Physical, Emotional, or Material loss or detriment either by act or omission to act, and for the court’s to impose a sentence fitting to the crime when an individual fails to do that simple thing. If that’s seeing things through rose tinted glass’s, then pass me the shade’s, I’ll proudly wear them...It is the code I live by as most people do and I bow to no one on it...

As for shoving my opinion down throats, I fail to see where I’ve done that, I’ve mearly tried to articulate my feeling’s on this subject, and for what its worth, am confident Keogh is Guilty, was provided with every right afforded him (In contradiction to what right’s he afforded his Victim) but my point is the Court’s and by Proxy Society again has failed to make an example of him or the Bastard’s that sneer there way into Court with frightening regularity.

PS I’m a Lover, not a Shover...

Quarterpoundher you've got me in fits of laughter now. That story about the fisheries people chasing you,I presume along the banks of the Blackwater, is just hilarious.

By the Duke, I take it you're refering to my good friend, his lordship, the Duke of Devonshire beyond in Lismore Castle. You're a lucky man you did'nt get injured. I believe the Duke, like all his class, is a dab-hand with a shot-gun, and loves nothing better than to bag a few peasants..........sorry I meant pheasants before breakfast.

The whole thing reads like something out of the Irish RM. Reminds me of the good old days in Dublin, when for two and six you could get yourself a nice young hure up in Monto. Mind you, all the girls were Irish back then; mostly fine strappin agricultural women up from the country....beef to the heel and all that. If you asked for extras, the reply would have been - "Wa de ya want me sister as well luv ?". The only extras you were likely to get were a big feed of coddle and one or two of her Woodbines if she really liked you. And the peelers were never a problem, sure half the DMP were throwing the leg over aswell.

But unfortunately times change. Most people today have never even of Monto or Montgomery Street and could'nt tell you where it was located. Two and six would also be a complete mystery and people would be shocked to learn how much that bought you back then. And of course today the profession is called Escorting.

All progress I suppose Quarterpoundher. But I can tell you this, the man who invents a time machine, will make himself an absolute fortune. Anyway, I off to 1916 now; there's a few lads down in the GPO causin a minor disturbance and we've got to go out on duty.
Evening all.