The E-I Bad Clients List

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07-03-09, 12:43
Patricia

The E-I Bad Clients List

Hi,

Following the great Good and Bad Clients list fiasco, we have looked at our our own policies towards these issues.

First of all I would like to say that I strongly dissaprove of the way a number of ladies ran a good and bad clients list. I think it was done totally irrisponsibly.

I don't think most of the ladies involved meant any harm, I think they were just trying to keep themselves safe, and that is very understandable, but the way it was done was not acceptable.

Lots of clients had had their privacy violated here big time, and that was very wrong.

However, we have to move on from this, and I favour moving on in a constructive manner.

From this we have learnt that ladies are very concerned about their safety for good reason and that is a valid concern amongst ladies that isn't being helped by the fact nobody is running a proper bad clients system in Ireland.

So, we have decided to set up a proper bad clients system for Irish escorts. It is something we have held off doing for a long time, because it is a complex issue legally, but I've paid for legal advice on the issues recently, and I believe we can and should do it.

Our new bad clients list system is still in development and our plans are not all set in stone yet, but we do have plans, and I would like feedback on them if anyone has any comments.

These are our plans:

(1) Our bad clients system will be available free of charge to any E-I advertiser (not just ladies, also males, agencies etc).

(2) After E-I advertisers leave, they will still have access for a set period, e.g. a month, but once that month has passed if they haven't been working in that timeframe access will be withdrawn.

(3) Our system will cover bad clients only. Good clients will not be put on the list. Also, we are not considering "timewasters" and the like bad clients. When we say bad clients we mean clients that have attacked ladies, threatened ladies, robbed ladies etc, i.e. clients that are a danger to all escorts, not clients that are simply considered a bit weird, timewasting, or simply "always leave bad reviews".

(4) Our bad clients list will ask reporting ladies for detailed information about the bad client, i.e. details of what happened, physical description, phone number, car numberplate etc, as much info as they can provide.

(5) We will not publish full real names, phone numbers or numberplates, addresses etc of bad clients in the bad client reports that are made available to escorts. E.g. With phone numbers only the last 5 digits will be published.

(6) Escorts will be able to access our bad clients list at any time via a username and password. It will be a secure area of this site. Ladies will also be able to choose to have bad client reports emailed to them automatically. We may even let ladies get text message alerts of bad clients, it depends on whether we can get a good SMS service running at a reasonable cost, we are still checking this out.

(7) Our bad clients system and the way it works will be openly known. Though only E-I advertisers will have access to it, what it is and how it works will not be a secret.

(8) We will be seeking to cooperate with the police and other organisations, eg. rape crisis centres, regards this list. Such orgaisations will be invited by us to have access to the data.

The above plans are still quite rough around the edges but these are our current plans and I would appreciate feedback from anyone who thinks they can provide suggestions.

Thank you

Pat x
07-03-09, 13:53
WWLhad

I commend your efforts Pat, I really do, but I think you are stepping out into dodgy territory with this. The reasons for putting somebody on a list like this would need to be very severe indeed.
Also a list like this is open to abuse with escorts making spiteful claims against people they have minor disagreements with, so hopefully you'll see a way past that.
07-03-09, 14:23
Patricia

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWLhad

I commend your efforts Pat, I really do, but I think you are stepping out into dodgy territory with this. The reasons for putting somebody on a list like this would need to be very severe indeed.
Also a list like this is open to abuse with escorts making spiteful claims against people they have minor disagreements with, so hopefully you'll see a way past that.

There are a lot of difficult issues, but I've been looking around the world literally and in countries like Australia for example, there are successful and established schemes for running bad client lists that seem to really work.

I'm still learning about other schemes and taking legal advice, but it seems to me others are doing it in a responsible way and therfore it appears it can work.

We have to also bear in mind that the fact is - escorts are very worried about their safety for good reason. And recent incidents like the recent lists fiasco are somewhat a result of their not being any properly run bad client schemes, are they not?
07-03-09, 15:18
pats bodyguard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

There are a lot of difficult issues, but I've been looking around the world literally and in countries like Australia for example, there are successful and established schemes for running bad client lists that seem to really work.

I'm still learning about other schemes and taking legal advice, but it seems to me others are doing it in a responsible way and therfore it appears it can work.

We have to also bear in mind that the fact is - escorts are very worried about their safety for good reason. And recent incidents like the recent lists fiasco are somewhat a result of their not being any properly run bad client schemes, are they not?

you,d have to consider too, about your own list being hacked, copied and used for some other purpose and how that is prevented..
07-03-09, 18:07
ninebythree

My only worry , would be that u have to clarify ,what exactly a bad client is .
Because as was shown on the other list , a bad client was some one writes bad reviews in one instance.

And remember , the other list started out from a bad client list:D:D

nbt
07-03-09, 19:22
annasavicha

PSML This is still going on :D
07-03-09, 20:51
luther

Quote:

Originally Posted by annasavicha

PSML This is still going on :D

Anna, Particia is trying to make a sugggestion about how to make things safer for all the girls here, including you!!!

I'm surprised you find it so funny..............
07-03-09, 21:27
thehighwayman

The bad client list should just be of violent and dangerous people. And also thieves. I agree the likes of timewasters and bad reviewers shouldn't be on it. The only problem is how easy it is to get a new sim card and change your username on escort websites.
07-03-09, 21:28
Stewie

Quote:

Originally Posted by luther

Anna, Particia is trying to make a sugggestion about how to make things safer for all the girls here, including you!!!

I'm surprised you find it so funny..............

I think Anna's point is that what is the value of such a list in reality. A sim card costs 10 euro anyone who was attacking girls is unlikely to continue to ring girls from the same phone. That said it is possible and if it saves one girl then it is worthwhile.

But the reality is if girls stop answering his calls he will buy a new sim.

Of course the real benefit might be in showing a pattern and allowing gardai to see incidences that girls may not have reported to them and possibly allowing gardai to build a case against someone that otherwise would have relied on the word of one girl.
07-03-09, 21:32
WTF

Sweetie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

Hi,

Following the great Good and Bad Clients list fiasco, we have looked at our our own policies towards these issues.

First of all I would like to say that I strongly dissaprove of the way a number of ladies ran a good and bad clients list. I think it was done totally irrisponsibly.

I don't think most of the ladies involved meant any harm, I think they were just trying to keep themselves safe, and that is very understandable, but the way it was done was not acceptable.

Lots of clients had had their privacy violated here big time, and that was very wrong.

However, we have to move on from this, and I favour moving on in a constructive manner.

From this we have learnt that ladies are very concerned about their safety for good reason and that is a valid concern amongst ladies that isn't being helped by the fact nobody is running a proper bad clients system in Ireland.

So, we have decided to set up a proper bad clients system for Irish escorts. It is something we have held off doing for a long time, because it is a complex issue legally, but I've paid for legal advice on the issues recently, and I believe we can and should do it.

Our new bad clients list system is still in development and our plans are not all set in stone yet, but we do have plans, and I would like feedback on them if anyone has any comments.

These are our plans:

(1) Our bad clients system will be available free of charge to any E-I advertiser (not just ladies, also males, agencies etc).

(2) After E-I advertisers leave, they will still have access for a set period, e.g. a month, but once that month has passed if they haven't been working in that timeframe access will be withdrawn.

(3) Our system will cover bad clients only. Good clients will not be put on the list. Also, we are not considering "timewasters" and the like bad clients. When we say bad clients we mean clients that have attacked ladies, threatened ladies, robbed ladies etc, i.e. clients that are a danger to all escorts, not clients that are simply considered a bit weird, timewasting, or simply "always leave bad reviews".

(4) Our bad clients list will ask reporting ladies for detailed information about the bad client, i.e. details of what happened, physical description, phone number, car numberplate etc, as much info as they can provide.

(5) We will not publish full real names, phone numbers or numberplates, addresses etc of bad clients in the bad client reports that are made available to escorts. E.g. With phone numbers only the last 5 digits will be published.

(6) Escorts will be able to access our bad clients list at any time via a username and password. It will be a secure area of this site. Ladies will also be able to choose to have bad client reports emailed to them automatically. We may even let ladies get text message alerts of bad clients, it depends on whether we can get a good SMS service running at a reasonable cost, we are still checking this out.

(7) Our bad clients system and the way it works will be openly known. Though only E-I advertisers will have access to it, what it is and how it works will not be a secret.

(8) We will be seeking to cooperate with the police and other organisations, eg. rape crisis centres, regards this list. Such orgaisations will be invited by us to have access to the data.

The above plans are still quite rough around the edges but these are our current plans and I would appreciate feedback from anyone who thinks they can provide suggestions.

Thank you

Pat x

you already have the private escorts forum.
07-03-09, 21:39
ninebythree

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

you already have the private escorts forum.

yeah but a couple of clients have access to that :D:D

nbt
07-03-09, 21:49
leothelion

phone numbers

I totally agree with a bad client list. And, sure you can change your phone number but if you read Patricia's post. Lots of details will be taken not just a clients phone number. Car reg, description of person. And if an escort really wants to go the whole way camera footage. Remember bad clients are not just a danger to escorts but a danger to society in general; escorts are just an easy target. These cowards should be named and shamed.
07-03-09, 23:09
damron

Why Anna is oblivious.

Anna has a list as long as your arm.
Clients she has seen a thousand times.
She knows them and she is safe Thank God.I remember her posting no new clients.
What worries me is the girls starting out in the
business.Lets face it.With so many peeople facing unemployment
don't tell me more and more women won't turn to escorting,
They are on their OWN.Nobody to help them except those that
could exploit them.No escort wants to share her patch with somebody
starting out.The competition is going to become fierce.Guys with less
and less money will look for the cheaper rates.The mobile phone at
least offers them some protection but they need more than that.
Well done Pat,just make sure of your legal ground.
Cheers
Dam
08-03-09, 12:36
Patricia

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats bodyguard

you,d have to consider too, about your own list being hacked, copied and used for some other purpose and how that is prevented..

Of course, we would put proper security measures in place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninebythree

My only worry , would be that u have to clarify ,what exactly a bad client is .
Because as was shown on the other list , a bad client was some one writes bad reviews in one instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehighwayman

The bad client list should just be of violent and dangerous people. And also thieves. I agree the likes of timewasters and bad reviewers shouldn't be on it.

Yes, agree with you both here. "bad clients" would only be the violent and dangerous

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehighwayman

The only problem is how easy it is to get a new sim card and change your username on escort websites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

I think Anna's point is that what is the value of such a list in reality. A sim card costs 10 euro anyone who was attacking girls is unlikely to continue to ring girls from the same phone. That said it is possible and if it saves one girl then it is worthwhile.

But the reality is if girls stop answering his calls he will buy a new sim.

Of course the real benefit might be in showing a pattern and allowing gardai to see incidences that girls may not have reported to them and possibly allowing gardai to build a case against someone that otherwise would have relied on the word of one girl.

These are very valid points and yes, of course bad clients can buy new sim cards as often as they like, but not all do, and also a partial phone number is not the only way to identify a dangerous client either. By collecting detailed info on attacks etc, we can share details of how the bad clients out there operate, their tricks, traits and habits etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

you already have the private escorts forum.

Yes, but that's just a private forum for ladies where warnings about bad clients are sometimes shared. It is not a dedicated bad clients system where we'd take full details of each incident and share that info with all other escorts by email/SMS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninebythree

yeah but a couple of clients have access to that :D:D

nbt

And so long as escorts give out their usernames and passwords to clients that will continue I'm afraid. Though, that said, we are going to be getting stricter about locking people out quite soon after they've finished advertising.

Pat x