Corrupt YES to Lisbon campaign

I couldn't believe my eyes when the president of the EU (who incidentally was elected president for the second term last week even though no EU citizen voted him in) came to Ireland t o deliver €15 Million from the EU crises fund. How fucking convenient that this has come just 2 weeks before the vote.

€15 Million is like beads to the natives.

It works out at a measly €6500 for every Dell worker for whom it is supposed to help.

Lets say our property debt is 90 billion.

To put that property debt and that 15 million into perspective.

If you owed €90,000 that would be the equivilent of your mate giving you €15 towards it.

The YES camp say we need Europe, we are stronger with Europe.

I say if Europe wants to help us then they need to put their hands in their deep pockets and give us more than a chicken feed insult to buy our votes.

vote no.....

Vote Yes Yes Yes!

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Originally Posted by MET-RX

Vote Yes Yes Yes!

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Why yes ?

Do you want to lose more jobs to Eastern Europe ?

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Originally Posted by Smarty

I couldn't believe my eyes when the president of the EU (who incidentally was elected president for the second term last week even though no EU citizen voted him in) came to Ireland t o deliver €15 Million from the EU crises fund. How fucking convenient that this has come just 2 weeks before the vote.

€15 Million is like beads to the natives.

It works out at a measly €6500 for every Dell worker for whom it is supposed to help.

Lets say our property debt is 90 billion.

To put that property debt and that 15 million into perspective.

If you owed €90,000 that would be the equivilent of your mate giving you €15 towards it.

The YES camp say we need Europe, we are stronger with Europe.

I say if Europe wants to help us then they need to put their hands in their deep pockets and give us more than a chicken feed insult to buy our votes.

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are manipulating the polls to make it look like more ppl are going to vote YES.I said it before and im saying it again.Anybody that voted NO last time who votes YEs this time ,has no self respect and has given into scare tactics.

Vote NO!
Westside

Voting Yes will save us being asked to vote again!:eek:

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Originally Posted by MET-RX

Voting Yes will save us being asked to vote again!:eek:

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but we can always vote NO next time.

Westside.

Nothing about the lies from the NO side I notice. Coir (whoever they are) would have us believe that the minimum wage could drop to €1.84 if the Lisbon Treaty is passed. UTTER BULLSHIT. There is nothing in the Lisbon Treaty to force any Government to set a rate for the minimum wage. This is just one of the many lies being perpetrated by the NO side.

And incidentally, what were the UKIP doing over here during the week so?. If you slag off the President of the European Commission for interfering, surely to be consistent you should condemn the UKIP for interfering too?????

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Originally Posted by *Superman

Nothing about the lies from the NO side I notice. Coir (whoever they are) would have us believe that the minimum wage could drop to €1.84 if the Lisbon Treaty is passed. UTTER BULLSHIT. There is nothing in the Lisbon Treaty to force any Government to set a rate for the minimum wage. This is just one of the many lies being perpetrated by the NO side.

And incidentally, what were the UKIP doing over here during the week so?. If you slag off the President of the European Commission for interfering, surely to be consistent you should condemn the UKIP for interfering too?????

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I think the point about the minimum rate needs to be elaborated, it is not that they would force a drop in our minimum wage but the European court of law upheld cases in both Switzerland and France the right of a company to hire staff from another member state and pay them that member states minimum wage and not that of the country they are working in and if the treaty is passed it would give EU law extra powers to impose the same decision should companies here try it again, (irish ferries wasn't it??)

It took nearly 1000 years to gain independence and 90 to fuck it away

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Originally Posted by kieree

It took nearly 1000 years to gain independence and 90 to fuck it away

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But that's scare tactics by the no camp........

Lisbon has nothing to do with our independence.......

To use Irish patriots to try and influence a vote about Lisbon is an absolute disgrace.........

Give people the facts, provide them with the information and then let them decide........

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Originally Posted by luther

But that's scare tactics by the no camp........

Lisbon has nothing to do with our independence.......

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According to lisbon we strengthen our voice in EU but we actually lose independance because we will have such a small say in EU.In other words we will have a stronger voice in EU but at the expense of controlling our own affairs.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by luther

To use Irish patriots to try and influence a vote about Lisbon is an absolute disgrace.........

Give people the facts, provide them with the information and then let them decide........

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Luther?The gov gave the facts to the ppl and the ppl did decide and voted NO.The lowest scare tactic of all is a statement followed by silence.

We need Europe?Well someoen tell us why.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

According to lisbon we strengthen our voice in EU but we actually lose independance because we will have such a small say in EU.In other words we will have a stronger voice in EU but at the expense of controlling our own affairs.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

Luther?The gov gave the facts to the ppl and the ppl did decide and voted NO.The lowest scare tactic of all is a statement followed by silence.

We need Europe?Well someoen tell us why.

Westside.

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Our independence that as Kieree says took us almost 1000 years to gain was gained from Britain........

Nothing to do with Lisbon.........

And West, I'm not saying that we should vote on this again. I've made it clear before that I don't this should be happening...........

What I don't agree with is using the memory of the patriots of 1916 to gain a vote in either direction. Employing that the martyrs would be turning in their graves having given their lives in the countries struggle for independence and to saying a yes vote would be throwing it away.......

That BS of the highest order........

I'm not saying people should vote in either direction but it has nothing to do with the 1916 rising.....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9uLYZ7QkaY...bon+Poster.jpg

Where ever there are politics there will be lies. That we can count on.
To much scare tactics and not enough facts on both sides.

Sadly this goverment has shown nothing but contempt for the people of this Country by not abiding by our desion first time around.

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Originally Posted by luther

Our independence that as Kieree says took us almost 1000 years to gain was gained from Britain........

Nothing to do with Lisbon.........

And West, I'm not saying that we should vote on this again. I've made it clear before that I don't this should be happening...........

What I don't agree with is using the memory of the patriots of 1916 to gain a vote in either direction. Employing that the martyrs would be turning in their graves having given their lives in the countries struggle for independence and to saying a yes vote would be throwing it away.......

That BS of the highest order........

I'm not saying people should vote in either direction but it has nothing to do with the 1916 rising.....

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Luther, while I see your point.

My opinion is as follows, yes it took 800 years and a lot of bloodshed to get the British out but we have had a silent invasion by the EU.

Under EU law it is illegal to give a job to an Irishman in this country ahead of any other citizen in the EU. Therefore a Pole who has had no family connection with Ireland can come to Ireland and take up a Job ahead of an Irish person.
And in practice what has happened is that a young foreign person who is willing to work every hour god sends, for a lesser rate than his Irish counterpart.

The Irish person may be middle aged and have a family to support here. They need a minimum amount of income to survive, they cannot compete with the younger foreigner who is prepared to share an apartment for 2 to 3 years with another 10 people save every penny and return to Warsaw or whereever and buy a gaff mortage free for 40 to 50K with what they have saved in Ireland.
Meanwhile the Irish guy ends up on the dole.

You would wonder what the 1916 heros gave their precious life for

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Originally Posted by *Superman

Nothing about the lies from the NO side I notice. Coir (whoever they are) would have us believe that the minimum wage could drop to €1.84 if the Lisbon Treaty is passed. UTTER BULLSHIT. There is nothing in the Lisbon Treaty to force any Government to set a rate for the minimum wage. This is just one of the many lies being perpetrated by the NO side.

And incidentally, what were the UKIP doing over here during the week so?. If you slag off the President of the European Commission for interfering, surely to be consistent you should condemn the UKIP for interfering too?????

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Unless you have been asleep for the last 2 years you will have noticed that a lot of our jobs have been moving overseas, its a no brainer that the minimum wage here will be reduced, as Ireland needs to compete with the cheaper EU economies this will reduce even further.

A least Coir is a bunch of Irish people.

On the yes camp we have Pat Cox a former passanger of the EU gravy train and current employed by big business as a lobbiest, we also have an American company Intel plouging cash into the yes campaign. Also IBEC. Heres a funny thing RTE is a member of IBEC yet it is supposed to be neutral on this issue.

As regards the UKIP party if you ever read any of their data it would give you a different angle on the EU and you would not see them as the all benificial organisation that the Yes camp would paint them out

Firstly the 1916 'martyrs' were a bunch of arrogant, romantic idiots.

Throw away our Independence. The Independence that gave us the chance to be ruled and represented and shafted by the likes of Haughey,Ahern - Lowry, Burke, P Flynn. Irishmen yes Good guys - no fucking way.

Throw away your nationalism boys - its the last vestige of racism that still exists.


I would gladly be ruled by martians if they could guarantee a job and a good health service. End of Story.

EU trying to buy our vote ? Good. Mine goes to the highest bidder.

Thers nothing worse than a misguided idealist.

It has to be NO. Ireland is not there to be bought.

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Originally Posted by espensen

It has to be NO. Ireland is not there to be bought.

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What the hell is wrong with being bought. We all have our price.

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Luther, while I see your point.

My opinion is as follows, yes it took 800 years and a lot of bloodshed to get the British out but we have had a silent invasion by the EU.

Under EU law it is illegal to give a job to an Irishman in this country ahead of any other citizen in the EU. Therefore a Pole who has had no family connection with Ireland can come to Ireland and take up a Job ahead of an Irish person.
And in practice what has happened is that a young foreign person who is willing to work every hour god sends, for a lesser rate than his Irish counterpart.

The Irish person may be middle aged and have a family to support here. They need a minimum amount of income to survive, they cannot compete with the younger foreigner who is prepared to share an apartment for 2 to 3 years with another 10 people save every penny and return to Warsaw or whereever and buy a gaff mortage free for 40 to 50K with what they have saved in Ireland.
Meanwhile the Irish guy ends up on the dole.

You would wonder what the 1916 heros gave their precious life for

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The Pole coming to Ireland for work and to better his standard of living is no different to the Irish person going to Britain, North America, Australia, New Zealand etc. for similar reasons. We did it for generations stretching back to before the famine even.

Does anybody wish to contemplate what this island would look like now if we had'nt had the safety valve of emigration available to us.

On the other hand, with 40 to 50 million squashed onto this island, there would have been no need for 1916...........we would have invaded the neighbouring island long ago. Just imagine, if you will, HM The Queen presenting the Sam Maguire Cup in front of 100,000 fans in Wembley Stadium and speaking in a broad Kerry accent.

Tiocfaidh ar la. :D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Luther, while I see your point.

My opinion is as follows, yes it took 800 years and a lot of bloodshed to get the British out but we have had a silent invasion by the EU.

Under EU law it is illegal to give a job to an Irishman in this country ahead of any other citizen in the EU. Therefore a Pole who has had no family connection with Ireland can come to Ireland and take up a Job ahead of an Irish person.
And in practice what has happened is that a young foreign person who is willing to work every hour god sends, for a lesser rate than his Irish counterpart.

The Irish person may be middle aged and have a family to support here. They need a minimum amount of income to survive, they cannot compete with the younger foreigner who is prepared to share an apartment for 2 to 3 years with another 10 people save every penny and return to Warsaw or whereever and buy a gaff mortage free for 40 to 50K with what they have saved in Ireland.
Meanwhile the Irish guy ends up on the dole.

You would wonder what the 1916 heros gave their precious life for

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disturbing but excellent post Ireland has simply lost its identity...:mad:

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Originally Posted by experienced punter

disturbing but excellent post Ireland has simply lost its identity...:mad:

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why we ever left the commonwealth is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

The Pole coming to Ireland for work and to better his standard of living is no different to the Irish person going to Britain, North America, Australia, New Zealand etc. for similar reasons. We did it for generations stretching back to before the famine even.

Does anybody wish to contemplate what this island would look like now if we had'nt had the safety valve of emigration available to us.

On the other hand, with 40 to 50 million squashed onto this island, there would have been no need for 1916...........we would have invaded the neighbouring island long ago. Just imagine, if you will, HM The Queen presenting the Sam Maguire Cup in front of 100,000 fans in Wembley Stadium and speaking in a broad Kerry accent.

Tiocfaidh ar la. :D:D:D

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i was at the Airport last night to meet someone there.It was a late flight and several flighhts came in.We had flights from all around relly but all were quiet except one,from Poland.It was packed.Lots of ppl came to meet the ppl that arrived and they arrived with a bag or so and small ones at that.The got the impression they were just coming back after being home for the weekend,back to continue to claim welfare,just back from buying cheap stuff back home.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

i was at the Airport last night to meet someone there.It was a late flight and several flighhts came in.We had flights from all around relly but all were quiet except one,from Poland.It was packed.Lots of ppl came to meet the ppl that arrived and they arrived with a bag or so and small ones at that.The got the impression they were just coming back after being home for the weekend,back to continue to claim welfare,just back from buying cheap stuff back home.

Westside.

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And no doubt there were tearful scenes in Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw,Bydgoszcz and Gdansk airports as parents said goodbye to their sons and daughters.

I remember RTE in their news programs showing similar scenes from Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock airports in the 1980s and 1990s.

Lest we forget brothers and sisters.

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Originally Posted by carlos marvado

And no doubt there were tearful scenes in Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw,Bydgoszcz and Gdansk airports as parents said goodbye to their sons and daughters.

I remember RTE in their news programs showing similar scenes from Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock airports in the 1980s and 1990s.

Lest we forget brothers and sisters.

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Thats the sort of rational analysis that leads to trouble. Whatever happened to personal abuse.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

i was at the Airport last night to meet someone there.It was a late flight and several flighhts came in.We had flights from all around relly but all were quiet except one,from Poland.It was packed.Lots of ppl came to meet the ppl that arrived and they arrived with a bag or so and small ones at that.The got the impression they were just coming back after being home for the weekend,back to continue to claim welfare,just back from buying cheap stuff back home.

Westside.

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Yep a friend who has a few shops employing almost 100% Polish told me this has been going on for 2yrs
the Polish freely admit this to him they all have a flyer too ''how to screw your employer in Ireland'' :rolleyes:cheap flights over there to work back here to sign on theres been a big clampdown recently too late eh?
telling it like it is:cool:

I'm a bit wary of anything that The Libertas founder supports-supposely he's a known, nasty, dodgy con-artist-asK any Albanian about the Pyramid scheme that leveled Albanian back in the 80's-the country's people and governemnt with backrurpt as a result of buying stocks in a company he
headed.

Since he's saying NO, I'd vote YES

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Luther, while I see your point.

My opinion is as follows, yes it took 800 years and a lot of bloodshed to get the British out but we have had a silent invasion by the EU.

Under EU law it is illegal to give a job to an Irishman in this country ahead of any other citizen in the EU. Therefore a Pole who has had no family connection with Ireland can come to Ireland and take up a Job ahead of an Irish person.
And in practice what has happened is that a young foreign person who is willing to work every hour god sends, for a lesser rate than his Irish counterpart.

The Irish person may be middle aged and have a family to support here. They need a minimum amount of income to survive, they cannot compete with the younger foreigner who is prepared to share an apartment for 2 to 3 years with another 10 people save every penny and return to Warsaw or whereever and buy a gaff mortage free for 40 to 50K with what they have saved in Ireland.
Meanwhile the Irish guy ends up on the dole.

You would wonder what the 1916 heros gave their precious life for

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But in fairness, we're not being invaded by Europe, we chose to become part of a community........and were damn glad of it at times........

Now of course I see your points about jobs etc. but we can't pick and choose which parts we like and don't like and at which times it suits us....... it's a package deal.........

It's not the taking the jobs that worries me so much, it's the fraudulent availing of the benefits.....

Like it of not, that were here to fill a gap in the employment sector that some, not all, but some Irish people were to lazy or snobby to do.......... they felt it was beneath them......... I've seen this first hand.......

The Irish filled this gap in many countries around the world, both legally and illegally........

It's now come back to bite many in the ass........

Of course it's not the ideal situation, and of course employers would like to support it's own country men, will all due respect to non nationals employed here, but what are they to do??? Replace the non national with an Irish person that wouldn't take the job a few years ago???

Anyway Smarty, I do see your points...........oh for an ideal world...........

But I'm not debating the yes/no thing, but I think it was wrong to use 1916 as a tactic........that's all......

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Originally Posted by Smarty

Unless you have been asleep for the last 2 years you will have noticed that a lot of our jobs have been moving overseas, its a no brainer that the minimum wage here will be reduced, as Ireland needs to compete with the cheaper EU economies this will reduce even further.

out

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If the minimum wage is ever reduced (and I doubt that it will) it will be the IRISH GOVERNMENT reacting to market forces that will change it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty as Coir are claiming. The EU cannot force our Government to lower it and this will remain the case if the Treaty is passed. That's a fact.

In relation to the discussion about jobs when we joined the EU there were 1 million at work in this
country now there are 2 millon working.Nobody will convince me that we would have this level of employment without the EU ,as then our only main market was the UK.In actual fact instead of
giving up the Independence we fought for by being in the EU we would still be ruled by the UK
not by being directly occupied by them but by being economically beholden to them

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Originally Posted by ber

In relation to the discussion about jobs when we joined the EU there were 1 million at work in this
country now there are 2 millon working.Nobody will convince me that we would have this level of employment without the EU ,as then our only main market was the UK.In actual fact instead of
giving up the Independence we fought for by being in the EU we would still be ruled by the UK
not by being directly occupied by them but by being economically beholden to them

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while it may be true that more employment came along with the EU its the distribution of that employment that is questionable.Before EU you will find that most of those employed were employed in domestic industry whereas now its in foreign investment which has dwindled lately leading to the mess we are in.We have fucked up our domestic industry and have grown to rely on foreign industry.While foreign investment is welcome, to bring it in at the expense of our own domestic industry is a disaster.

We are becoming overly realiant on others to control our economy and by voting Lisbon we will be even more realiant on others to control out economy.Its human nature to look after ourselves.The larger powers of the EU will call the shots to suit themselves and not us.

The Irish gov need to focus on Ireland and Irish industry.Jesus we are a small open economy in a strategically advantagous location and we are in a recession with our banking system in shit.That doesnt make sense at all and can only come about with neglect and focus in the wrong areas.

Westside.

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Originally Posted by *Superman

If the minimum wage is ever reduced (and I doubt that it will) it will be the IRISH GOVERNMENT reacting to market forces that will change it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty as Coir are claiming. The EU cannot force our Government to lower it and this will remain the case if the Treaty is passed. That's a fact.

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but whats stopping the European parliament bringing about legislation to do this sort of thing and the crowd running this country would vote for it too.

the only reason the politicians of this country want Lisbon is because its a bigger gravy train for them.Its not about the Irish ppl ,its about them and their power and pockets.

history will show this,
Westside.

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Originally Posted by ber

In relation to the discussion about jobs when we joined the EU there were 1 million at work in this
country now there are 2 millon working.Nobody will convince me that we would have this level of employment without the EU ,as then our only main market was the UK.In actual fact instead of
giving up the Independence we fought for by being in the EU we would still be ruled by the UK
not by being directly occupied by them but by being economically beholden to them

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I would prefer to have a million jobs, than have 2 million and be in the economic shit that we are in at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Westsidex

but whats stopping the European parliament bringing about legislation to do this sort of thing and the crowd running this country would vote for it too.

the only reason the politicians of this country want Lisbon is because its a bigger gravy train for them.Its not about the Irish ppl ,its about them and their power and pockets.

history will show this,
Westside.

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The European Parliament cannot force the Irish Government to change the minimum wage at the moment, and this will remain the case if the Lisbon Treaty is passed. For any group to claim otherwise is a lie. Simple as that.

If we vote YES we can blame the government for not getting us out of recession. If we vote NO, every time something goes wrong we will be told its because we voted no to lisbon. :p:p

Nationalism's a load of shite. We'd have been much better off economically by staying within the Commonwealth. Just cross the border and see their roads for one thing!

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Originally Posted by MET-RX

If we vote YES we can blame the government for not getting us out of recession. If we vote NO, every time something goes wrong we will be told its because we voted no to lisbon. :p:p

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That's an excellent point.

That one alone would nearly persuade me to vote yes