Abolitionist Stella Marr Exposed As A Fraud?????

[Half Man and Half Dildo]

Please God let this be true -



We just learned the true identity of Stella Marr. She apparently upset someone whom she knows and this person has shared that identity with a number of people who have subsequently made this information available to many others.

As we suspected all along, Stella is a fraud. The info we received about her is enough to validate this observation, and we are considering a lawsuit against her for slander and libel, although a public apology for her falsehoods would suffice.


Link to the story. (http://www.policeprostitutionandpolitics.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:stella-marr-her-blog-and-bs&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50)

It would be worthwhile keeping an eye on this to see how it develops and pasting it all over the net if it turns out to be true.

[Lucy Chambers]

I do hope anyone isnt stupid enough to do such a thing. We have seen many instances of ''real identities' exposed and we have all lined up to villify those responsible, the gutter press usually. These tactics have no place in any respectable debte or arena, and as such will only be seen as seeking to discredit those who disagree. As Stella Marr to my knowledge has never revealed the identity of anyone, real or not, one would wonder if these are the correct directions to take. I feel not.

This is an emotive issue. There is the option of acting with greater honour than those who seek to harm us. Leave these factions to burn themselves out.

[LaBelleThatcher]

It is true, I have seen the evidence for myself and it is conclusive and in forgotten corners of the public domain.

"Stella Marr", much like our home grown "professional survivors" has been using a totally fictitous pseudo identity as "evidence" with which to do a lot of damage to the sex industry and those who work in it while making a lot of personal profit.

That is called a "scam", and whoever feels more comfortable enabling it, nobody has the right to expect anyone else to sit back and enable it too.

"Stella Marr" has never even hesitated to do any harm she could to others, whether in general or to individuals. She is easily one of the nastiest cyber bullies I have ever seen and has made up some shameless and quite horrific lies about anyone who opposes her, and if she has never exposed anybody's identity that would simply be because she does not know anybody's identity to expose. Because her identity was unknown, nobody was able to seek the protection of, or redress under the law for her constant attacks and harassment.

There is no honour in offering your own throat to the wolf let alone in trying to demand that others do so as well.

[saoirsemac]

the is disgraceful eileen and low

u dnt out people its wrong

i dnt care wat side she on or what she said to u

but u dnt out people its completely wrong, and shame on you

u know sex workers keep private ur no better than a journo for sunday world

[LaBelleThatcher]

I do know "sex workers keep private" but it is very unlikely Stella Marr ever has been, or ever will be, a sex worker, she certainly is not one now, she has also chosen, of her own free will, to appear open faced on video. (Incidentally explaining her fundraising plans).

I do not care what she has said to me anymore than you do, she is just a vicious and manipulative person, but I most certainly *DO* care about the terrible lies she has told about other, much nicer, people than me, and the terrible harm she is coldbloodly trying to bring to all of us.

Nobody is obliged to enable anyone in that kind of abuse of others.

Finally, last time I checked, I was the sole arbiter of my own conscience, and I do not require any assistance with that task. By my conscience it is terribly wrong to enable a creature like Stella Marr in any way, and that is what I must abide by.

[LaBelleThatcher]

There you go, open faced, on camera, of her own free will (tweeted herself on twitter).

http://www.livestream.com/stoppornculture/video?clipId=pla_29034644-bde7-45c8-9888-b7cbbd5846d8&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

[Anna23]

And the picture in her avatar is who?

[LaBelleThatcher]

And the picture in her avatar is who?

Herself (probably not recently though)...she even uses some of the same pictures in her own name (maybe it was really someone using tineye that pinned her down?).

[Anna23]

Herself (probably not recently though)...she even uses some of the same pictures in her own name (maybe it was really someone using tineye that pinned her down?).

oK, now I'm perplexed. If she isn't out yet, why would she in her right mind put a pic of herself on the internet? To me this is equal to outing yourself. I mean anyone can recognize you any moment and that's all it takes. Something fishy here.

[Lucy Chambers]

It is true, I have seen the evidence for myself and it is conclusive and in forgotten corners of the public domain.

"Stella Marr", much like our home grown "professional survivors" has been using a totally fictitous pseudo identity as "evidence" with which to do a lot of damage to the sex industry and those who work in it while making a lot of personal profit.

That is called a "scam", and whoever feels more comfortable enabling it, nobody has the right to expect anyone else to sit back and enable it too.

"Stella Marr" has never even hesitated to do any harm she could to others, whether in general or to individuals. She is easily one of the nastiest cyber bullies I have ever seen and has made up some shameless and quite horrific lies about anyone who opposes her, and if she has never exposed anybody's identity that would simply be because she does not know anybody's identity to expose. Because her identity was unknown, nobody was able to seek the protection of, or redress under the law for her constant attacks and harassment.

There is no honour in offering your own throat to the wolf let alone in trying to demand that others do so as well.

Stella Marr has written a blog, its on the Internet for all to see. She claims to have been a trafficked sex worker and survivor. Best of British to her then. I dont care about her blog, I don't care what she has to say, I dont even care if its a scam. I do care about people using these sort of tactics. I feel it is wrong.

[LaBelleThatcher]

oK, now I'm perplexed. If she isn't out yet, why would she in her right mind put a pic of herself on the internet? To me this is equal to outing yourself. I mean anyone can recognize you any moment and that's all it takes. Something fishy here.

I always wondered about that...even before, because the photos looked real...but then maybe I thought America was so big it's different? Or maybe she was just too arrogant to realise people would see?

[LaBelleThatcher]

Stella Marr has written a blog, its on the Internet for all to see. She claims to have been a trafficked sex worker and survivor. Best of British to her then. I dont care about her blog, I don't care what she has to say, I dont even care if its a scam. I do care about people using these sort of tactics. I feel it is wrong.

Sorry, Lucy, I do not have to have my choices dictated by what *you* feel...but what *I* feel, end of.

[Lucy Chambers]

Sorry, Lucy, I do not have to have my choices dictated by what *you* feel...but what *I* feel, end of.

Jolly good. If you choose to make those choices then you do so alone.

[Banjaxed]

oK, now I'm perplexed. If she isn't out yet, why would she in her right mind put a pic of herself on the internet? To me this is equal to outing yourself. I mean anyone can recognize you any moment and that's all it takes. Something fishy here.

It's already been covered today on a number of US-based blogs on sex work (one well-known blogger in particular who really grabbed onto the story). It's clear that her trail was easy to follow, but that still doesn't make it right. I don't think anyone likes to have their character assassinated by an ad hominem attack, and it's therefore morally questionable.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Jolly good. If you choose to make those choices then you do so alone.

I make all my choices alone, always have, always will...don't you?

[LaBelleThatcher]

It's already been covered today on a number of US-based blogs on sex work (one well-known blogger in particular who really grabbed onto the story). It's clear that her trail was easy to follow, but that still doesn't make it right. I don't think anyone likes to have their character assassinated by an ad hominem attack, and it's therefore morally questionable.

...but it is perfectly ok for Stella Marr to assassinate characters at will and whip up a viral propaganda campaign aimed at making fame and fortune out of doing untold damage to innocent people?

I don't think so.

The people Stella Marr has chosen to damage for gain are entitled to avail of the full protection of civil law which they can only do if provided with her real ID. NOBODY has to lie down and accept abuse on that scale.

[Lucy Chambers]

...but it is perfectly ok for Stella Marr to assassinate characters at will and whip up a viral propaganda campaign aimed at making fame and fortune out of doing untold damage to innocent people?

I don't think so.

The people Stella Marr has chosen to damage for gain are entitled to avail of the full protection of civil law which they can only do if provided with her real ID. NOBODY has to lie down and accept abuse on that scale.

Yes, its fine. It was fine for Brooke Magnanti to make a fortune out of her supposedly real escorting experiences. I think that getting involved in this type of infighting is pointless. We are supposed to be against Criminalisation. Not online spats with religous organisations and supposed scammers.

[Lucy Chambers]

I make all my choices alone, always have, always will...don't you?

If thats the case then there is no place here for posts inviting others to out people on the net. I have said all I have to say on the subject.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Yes, its fine. It was fine for Brooke Magnanti to make a fortune out of her supposedly real escorting experiences. I think that getting involved in this type of infighting is pointless. We are supposed to be against Criminalisation. Not online spats with religous organisations and supposed scammers.

(Brooke Magnanti has not made a fortune, ask her yourself, she even just blogged about it from a writer's point of view. Most importantly, she harmed absolutely NO ONE)

The move to criminalise is a propaganda war, Stella Marr appointed herself as a key player in that. Do not ever underestimate the power of propaganda. Propaganda enabled the unchallenged extermination of 7 million Jews in Nazi Germany. You may not know anything about how all this really works but I do, and I have to act in terms of what I know about and understand, not what you do not.


If thats the case then there is no place here for posts inviting others to out people on the net. I have said all I have to say on the subject.

Oh? Have I been sleep posting here again? Please send me a link to where I posted here inviting anyone to *out* anyone on the net.

[Banjaxed]

...but it is perfectly ok for Stella Marr to assassinate characters at will and whip up a viral propaganda campaign aimed at making fame and fortune out of doing untold damage to innocent people?

I don't think so.

The people Stella Marr has chosen to damage for gain are entitled to avail of the full protection of civil law which they can only do if provided with her real ID. NOBODY has to lie down and accept abuse on that scale.

We've been through this before.

As far as her posts on certain individuals were concerned, it was from publicly available information. It was a legitimate concern that those involved had criminal convictions for various offences yet they saw fit to take leadership roles within particular organisations. That was her personal concern and opinion, and it's up to each individual as to how much they feel it should matter (i.e.: by taking into account all the circumstances, was the charge justified or was it police harassment).

Absolutely, but recourse to the law is fully available for those who wish to seek it, both in terms of both criminal and civil. There are people deliberately better placed to decide on the necessity of granting access to a person's identity for a reason. What Maggie McNeill and others have obtained is hearsay and circumstantial evidence, and they have no intention of pursuing legal action because it wouldn't stand up (defence of truth, honest opinion, etc.), they simply want to shame someone into submission. That's undermining the rule of law.

It's a akin to an opposition TD using parliamentary privilege to falsely and maliciously allege the Minister is unfit to have an opinion on prostitution law reform because he frequents prostitutes. Damage done, whether true or not, and there's no recourse to law.

[Anna23]

So is Stella a former sex worker or not? And can this be proven in any way?

Because as far as I'm concerned, if she was a sex worker, then she shouldn't be outed but if she wasn't, then why not? She is publicly active so I think it would be naive for anyone to expect that her identity will stay forever hidden.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Absolutely, but recourse to the law is fully available for those who wish to seek it, both in terms of both criminal and civil.


Not under civil law which is what would apply here.

I am intrigued by your ability to read the minds of Maggie McNeill and others...have you ever considered doing this for a living on TV?

[Lucy Chambers]

(Brooke Magnanti has not made a fortune, ask her yourself, she even just blogged about it from a writer's point of view. Most importantly, she harmed absolutely NO ONE)

The move to criminalise is a propaganda war, Stella Marr appointed herself as a key player in that. Do not ever underestimate the power of propaganda. Propaganda enabled the unchallenged extermination of 7 million Jews in Nazi Germany. You may not know anything about how all this really works but I do, and I have to act in terms of what I know about and understand, not what you do not.



Oh? Have I been sleep posting here again? Please send me a link to where I posted here inviting anyone to *out* anyone on the net.



I didnt say you did. The OP did.

[Banjaxed]

Not under civil law which is what would apply here.

I am intrigued by your ability to read the minds of Maggie McNeill and others...have you ever considered doing this for a living on TV?

You simply seek a court order for the specific purpose in whatever jurisdiction you wish. In many US jurisdictions you can actually file against an anonymous individual. Here or the UK, you would most likely have to commence a proceeding against the hosting provider (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405553,00.asp) (Facebook, Wordpress, etc.).

Anyway this is a little bit pointless, you know my opinion on this already. I'll just have to agree to disagree.

[LaBelleThatcher]

So is Stella a former sex worker or not? And can this be proven in any way?

As far as I know there are actually a couple of American lawyers working on that, and, to date, it is looking almost certain that she could not have been a sex worker for as long as she claims.



Because as far as I'm concerned, if she was a sex worker, then she shouldn't be outed but if she wasn't, then why not? She is publicly active so I think it would be naive for anyone to expect that her identity will stay forever hidden.

Totally...it could all even be a publicity stunt that originates from Stella herself.

I don't think anyone really wants to *out* her, they just want her to cut out the filthy tactics and lies. Now her ID is available, she has to abide by the law in terms of slander, libel and defamation.

I can see how utterly ruthless and unscrupulous she is...and I would happily *out* her in a heartbeat, for which I make no apology (I am sure she would do exactly the same, and far worse to me without pausing for thought, she is a very nasty piece of work)...except that there would be certain to be innocent family members as co-lateral damage and I hate creating co-lateral damage, particularly when it is avoidable.

[LaBelleThatcher]

You simply seek a court order for the specific purpose in whatever jurisdiction you wish. In many US jurisdictions you can actually file against an anonymous individual.

Not realistically, according to anybody's lawyer (several have been involved all along)...and it is impossible to rule or enforce a ruling without an identity.



Here or the UK, you would most likely have to commence a proceeding against the hosting provider (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405553,00.asp) (Facebook, Wordpress, etc.).

Which would literally take years and tens, if not hundreds of thousands, always assuming provider had her ID at all. Now she can just be slapped with an injunction any time she get out of hand.

Simples.

[LaBelleThatcher]

I didnt say you did. The OP did.

I am so glad we cleared that up, although I would not have read the OP that way either...

[LaBelleThatcher]

...and if ye would only expend a tenth of the energy on actually DOING something to fight criminalisation that ye are happy to spend on giving aid and comfort to the likes of Stella Marr we would be home and dry already...

[Banjaxed]

Not realistically, according to anybody's lawyer (several have been involved all along)...and it is impossible to rule or enforce a ruling without an identity.
Duh...obviously. According to the legal interwebz, It's simply done during the preliminary stage, an order will be granted if the complaint can withstand summary judgment by the trial judge. Then you get your access, and an identity which to resume the action against.

Which would literally take years and tens, if not hundreds of thousands, always assuming provider had her ID at all. Now she can just be slapped with an injunction any time she get out of hand.

Simples.

Indeed, but it works and is the only system with checks and balances to insure that you don't unjustly ruin someone's life due to not liking what opinions they hold. Internet vigilante.

Anyway, it's not my fight. It's been done. I don't particularly agree with it, and know you wouldn't if you were the one being exposed.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Anyway, it's not my fight. It's been done. I don't particularly agree with it, and know you wouldn't if you were the one being exposed.

Aren't you forgetting one tiny little thing?

I do not *do* the things Stella Marr does...now or ever.

I do not make things up.

I do not ask for, nor would I accept, donations.

I will gain absolutely nothing from any of this and it will probably cost me a great deal.

I accept that my ID will eventually be blown anyway.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Anna23]

As far as I know there are actually a couple of American lawyers working on that, and, to date, it is looking almost certain that she could not have been a sex worker for as long as she claims.



Totally...it could all even be a publicity stunt that originates from Stella herself.

I don't think anyone really wants to *out* her, they just want her to cut out the filthy tactics and lies. Now her ID is available, she has to abide by the law in terms of slander, libel and defamation.

I can see how utterly ruthless and unscrupulous she is...and I would happily *out* her in a heartbeat, for which I make no apology (I am sure she would do exactly the same, and far worse to me without pausing for thought, she is a very nasty piece of work)...except that there would be certain to be innocent family members as co-lateral damage and I hate creating co-lateral damage, particularly when it is avoidable.

Thats what crossed my mind actually. I wonder if thats the case then where are they going with this? Maybe just a tactic to gain more compassion or to cover some tracks?

[LaBelleThatcher]

Thats what crossed my mind actually. I wonder if thats the case then where are they going with this? Maybe just a tactic to gain more compassion or to cover some tracks?

Sounds about right to me...or it may be time to drop the masks anyway, and she gets more mileage out of doing that this way?

It is ALL about tactics...absolutely cold blooded stuff.

[Anna23]

Sounds about right to me...or it may be time to drop the masks anyway, and she gets more mileage out of doing that this way?

It is ALL about tactics...absolutely cold blooded stuff.


Of course it is and will always be as long as you have a money driven agenda to push. This isn't a case of one woman blogging for making her heart feel lighter. This is indeed nothing else but self serving propaganda. There is no doubt about it.

[LaBelleThatcher]

[/B]

Of course it is and will always be as long as you have a money driven agenda to push. This isn't a case of one woman blogging for making her heart feel lighter. This is indeed nothing else but self serving propaganda. There is no doubt about it.

Thank heavens it is not only me who sees this!

[Anna23]

Thank heavens it is not only me who sees this!

Unfortunately, we all have our hidden agendas of which we might not are even aware of...

[Half Man and Half Dildo]

I would like to clarify what I actually meant by saying "pasting it all over the net if it turns out to be true."

In hindsight I phrased that very badly indeed as it does not convey my true intention which was only (if proven to be true) show up Ruhama. I was NOT suggesting that she be outed and her real name and photos be plastered all over the net.

In future I'll be more careful with my choice of words.

Sorry :(

[doodlebug]

Duh...obviously. According to the legal interwebz, It's simply done during the preliminary stage, an order will be granted if the complaint can withstand summary judgment by the trial judge. Then you get your access, and an identity which to resume the action against.


Indeed, but it works and is the only system with checks and balances to insure that you don't unjustly ruin someone's life due to not liking what opinions they hold. Internet vigilante.

Anyway, it's not my fight. It's been done. I don't particularly agree with it, and know you wouldn't if you were the one being exposed.

Forgive me going off topic, but poppycock, the law is no safeguard with checks and balances unless you have money to access it. Indeed in this country the laws of privilege have been used to defame people purely because their views were unwelcome.

[Lucy Chambers]

I would like to clarify what I actually meant by saying "pasting it all over the net if it turns out to be true."

In hindsight I phrased that very badly indeed as it does not convey my true intention which was only (if proven to be true) show up Ruhama. I was NOT suggesting that she be outed and her real name and photos be plastered all over the net.

In future I'll be more careful with my choice of words.

Sorry :(

Thanks for clearing that up :)

[Disco Biscuit]

Stella Who?

[LaBelleThatcher]

Stella Who?

There is always one :rolleyes:

...nobody you know pet ;)

[Disco Biscuit]

There is always one :rolleyes:

...nobody you know pet ;)

Why the big long Yawnfest then? :D

[LaBelleThatcher]

Why the big long Yawnfest then? :D

Because some silly people like to pretend you are not the epicentre of the universe sometimes pet. *rolleyes:

[Disco Biscuit]

Because some silly people like to pretend you are not the epicentre of the universe sometimes pet. *rolleyes:

Still dont get it, still not interested :D

You aint doing a great job selling this thread to me LBT.

Let me break it down for ya:

-Who is this woman?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What can she do for me?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What way is she gonna effect me or my life?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-By knowing her will I become rich and famous?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-Has a film or book been done on her?
-Does she have nudie pics?

[LaBelleThatcher]

Still dont get it, still not interested :D

You aint doing a great job selling this thread to me LBT.

Let me break it down for ya:

-Who is this woman?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What can she do for me?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What way is she gonna effect me or my life?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-By knowing her will I become rich and famous?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-Has a film or book been done on her?
-Does she have nudie pics?

No dear, she doesn't seem to have any nudie pics (see: https://www.google.ie/search?q=stella+marr+nudie+pics&hl=en&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zy37T9u0HZGyhAfg35jXBg&ved=0CEUQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=699#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=%22stella+marr%22+%22nudie+pics%22&oq=%22stella+marr%22+%22nudie+pics%22&gs_l=img.12...4244.12015.0.14625.4.3.0.1.0.0.128.362.0j3.3.0...0.0.RVbQJq8eESE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7333a0e378787e24&biw=1280&bih=699 ) ...perhaps you just accidentally wandered into the wrong sort of thread for you? ;)

[Disco Biscuit]

No dear, she doesn't seem to have any nudie pics (see: https://www.google.ie/search?q=stella+marr+nudie+pics&hl=en&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zy37T9u0HZGyhAfg35jXBg&ved=0CEUQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=699#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=%22stella+marr%22+%22nudie+pics%22&oq=%22stella+marr%22+%22nudie+pics%22&gs_l=img.12...4244.12015.0.14625.4.3.0.1.0.0.128.362.0j3.3.0...0.0.RVbQJq8eESE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7333a0e378787e24&biw=1280&bih=699 ) ...perhaps you just accidentally wandered into the wrong sort of thread for you? ;)

Im pretty sure Im in the right place :)

Hey, you know what LBT?

If you rearrange the abreeviated form of your username, its BLT? :D

[the traveller]

Stella Who?

Good to see you on this side of the fence DB. Don't forget to put in your submission!!

[Disco Biscuit]

Good to see you on this side of the fence DB. Don't forget to put in your submission!!

LBT wont tell me who she is?

[the traveller]

LBT wont tell me who she is?

That's what google's for DB.(stop sampling the goods DB )

[Disco Biscuit]

That's what google's for DB.(stop sampling the goods DB )

Heh heh :D

[LaBelleThatcher]

Good to see you on this side of the fence DB. Don't forget to put in your submission!!

Good grief...don't put ideas in his head...feck knows what he will submit! ;)

[Disco Biscuit]

Good grief...don't put ideas in his head...feck knows what he will submit! ;)

Its cool BLT, I dont need to, I got a few guards, a district court judge and a county councillor (with aspirations of the dail) in my backpocket, im cushty and if that dont work, I have plenty of dirt on them that can persuade them otherwise ;)

[max california]

Still dont get it, still not interested :D

You aint doing a great job selling this thread to me LBT.

Let me break it down for ya:

-Who is this woman?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What can she do for me?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-What way is she gonna effect me or my life?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-By knowing her will I become rich and famous?
-Does she have nudie pics?
-Has a film or book been done on her?
-Does she have nudie pics?

Doesn't like people exchanging sex for money
No
Help stop you exchanging your hard earned for time and companionship
No
See two
No
Probably not
No,
Don't know
No
:D

[Disco Biscuit]

Doesn't like people exchanging sex for money
No
Help stop you exchanging your hard earned for time and companionship
No
See two
No
Probably not
No,
Don't know
No
:D

Max my man, you never fail to deliver :D

[Banjaxed]

Forgive me going off topic, but poppycock, the law is no safeguard with checks and balances unless you have money to access it. Indeed in this country the laws of privilege have been used to defame people purely because their views were unwelcome.

I was operating from a position of indoctrinated, theoretical, optimism. An imperfect system exists, it's better than no system (in my opinion) and the widening of access is, thankfully, going to continue in the future.

Great to see the citizens of General Chat are entering this oft neglected desmesne. I imagine it's another thank-you owed to Lady Chambers. :)

[Disco Biscuit]

I was operating from a position of indoctrinated, theoretical, optimism. An imperfect system exists, it's better than no system (in my opinion) and the widening of access is, thankfully, going to continue in the future.

Great to see the citizens of General Chat are entering this oft neglected desmesne. I imagine it's another thank-you owed to Lady Chambers. :)

To whom do you refer Sir Banjaxed of the law dissertation?

[LaBelleThatcher]

I was operating from a position of indoctrinated, theoretical, optimism. An imperfect system exists, it's better than no system (in my opinion) and the widening of access is, thankfully, going to continue in the future.

Great to see the citizens of General Chat are entering this oft neglected desmesne. I imagine it's another thank-you owed to Lady Chambers. :)

Banjaxed...ye really ARE an incorrigible little bolix...in a loving, caring way, of course. :p

[doodlebug]

I was operating from a position of indoctrinated, theoretical, optimism. An imperfect system exists, it's better than no system (in my opinion) and the widening of access is, thankfully, going to continue in the future.

Great to see the citizens of General Chat are entering this oft neglected desmesne. I imagine it's another thank-you owed to Lady Chambers. :)

No thanks necessary to anybody for my presence here, if you bother to look I am a regular poster in this section. Glad you agree it is imperfect, perhaps then you will cease espousing its virtues until a greater degree of perfection is achieved.

On the general point, I am not in favour of outing, however, I did not see LBT suggest we should be outing anyone. In the spiiders web of this industry and lobbying it is very difficult sometimes to see the wood for the trees.

I believe in free speech for all sides but I also believe in equality so lets keep that in mind whatever actions we are contemplating.

[LaBelleThatcher]

No thanks necessary to anybody for my presence here, if you bother to look I am a regular poster in this section. Glad you agree it is imperfect, perhaps then you will cease espousing its virtues until a greater degree of perfection is achieved.

On the general point, I am not in favour of outing, however, I did not see LBT suggest we should be outing anyone. In the spiiders web of this industry and lobbying it is very difficult sometimes to see the wood for the trees.

I believe in free speech for all sides but I also believe in equality so lets keep that in mind whatever actions we are contemplating.

You picked me up sorta right there Doodles...I am an "expose the fraud, not the fraudster" kinda gal...up to the point where it becomes a felony anyway...then, frankly, screw you!

Professional survivors like "Stella" are producing themselves as evidence in favour of taking away the livelihood of every lady here and punishing ever man here.

Typing that out, I realise just how crazy and wrong that is even on face value, one person's experiences and reactions should *never* dictate the futures of other people with totally different feelings and reactions, that is absurd. For instance, I am not gay, and once came close to being, effectively, date raped by a woman with devastating consequences to my psych and sexuality, does this mean we need to put Katherine Zappone in jail?

Of course not.

But I digress. When a professional survivor like Stella produce themselves as evidence and it turns out they are not who they claim to be it invalidates the only "evidence" they have.

Let me give you a simple example. Supposing, for argument's sake, "FreeIrishWoman" turns out to be someone who is not 39, but, in fact, 44, all her claims to have been a 15 year old, working in the sex industry in 1991 go out of the window. It doesn't matter a hoot what her name, address, or visa card number is...but if her DOB is significantly earlier than 1975 it proves her whole story is one big lie.

It is also not as if the professional survivors are genuine people with a different point of view. They haven't got a rational argument or perspective to present (I am traumatised so you must be coerced out of sex work does not hold any kind of water) so they constantly lie, manipulate and bully to try and browbeat, abuse or discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them, and they are absolutely ruthless and unscrupulous about it. I have sat here and watched them do it.

Hardly surprising when you think about it. They are fighting to be able to impose their will on other people's lives and choices, only bullies want that. (I am fighting for other people to have the freedom to make their own choices, a very different attitude indeed.)

I do not care what they fire at me, when I signed up for this I knew I could expect to reap a whirlwind of vicious abuse from the same people who present themselves as "the good guys". I have been here before, I know exactly how vicious, unscrupulous and toxic they really are, and if I did not know I would never back down in the face of it then I would have saved myself a lot of trouble and stayed out.

But they are throwing the same kind of personal abuse, and worse, at a lot of other people. I believe the victims of their abuse are entitled to every assistance in using civil law, as it is intended, to protect themselves from those abuses whenever possible.

Just knowing that she is now in a position where legal action can easily be taken against her acts as a significant deterrent to "Stella Marr" in terms of abuse she had no right to throw around in the first place. She may be giving out a lot of bluster, but the bullying and personal abuse of individuals has suddenly dropped off a cliff, and her best shot suddenly comes down to accusing people of being "rich and famous", and all because the power she had to abuse people with impunity has been taken away from her.

I would not be in favour of revealing "Stella Marr's" real name not for her sake, she has shown me what a vicious, selfish, spiteful and unscrupulous person she is, over and over again, to the extent that, if I am honest, I genuinely could not care less if she lives or dies, and I am not good at pretending otherwise. But, throw a pebble in a pond and you never know where the ripples will go. If you expose her name, you expose her whole family, not only to the fallout from her scam, but also to any, more direct, false accusations she has chosen to make in the course of it.

That would not be fair.

[Anna23]

{Let me give you a simple example. Supposing, for argument's sake, "FreeIrishWoman" turns out to be someone who is not 39, but, in fact, 44, all her claims to have been a 15 year old, working in the sex industry in 1991 go out of the window. It doesn't matter a hoot what her name, address, or visa card number is...but if her DOB is significantly earlier than 1975 it proves her whole story is one big lie. }

I'm not sure this argument can stand as if I was posing as a "survivor" I'd probably slightly change insignificant data to prevent being identified ie. DOB. Of course in case of Stella who uses her own pictures and videos on the web I doubt she would be smart enough to think of such details.

[Banjaxed]

To whom do you refer Sir Banjaxed of the law dissertation?
Those posters rarely seen in this desmesne, of course.


Banjaxed...ye really ARE an incorrigible little bolix...in a loving, caring way, of course. :p
Why thank you! I believe that's the nicest compliment I've received since the 2nd day of June 2012.


No thanks necessary to anybody for my presence here, if you bother to look I am a regular poster in this section. Glad you agree it is imperfect, perhaps then you will cease espousing its virtues until a greater degree of perfection is achieved.

On the general point, I am not in favour of outing, however, I did not see LBT suggest we should be outing anyone. In the spiiders web of this industry and lobbying it is very difficult sometimes to see the wood for the trees.

I believe in free speech for all sides but I also believe in equality so lets keep that in mind whatever actions we are contemplating.
I wasn't referring to you, Sir Doodles, just some of the others who are rarer sights around here, but are indeed incredibly welcome.

Perhaps I should, but the theory behind it is like magic to me, a revolutionary concept even, providing an arena where the little person can actually win sometimes. Anyway, LBT will kick my ass if I digress anymore from the topic.

[LaBelleThatcher]

{Let me give you a simple example. Supposing, for argument's sake, "FreeIrishWoman" turns out to be someone who is not 39, but, in fact, 44, all her claims to have been a 15 year old, working in the sex industry in 1991 go out of the window. It doesn't matter a hoot what her name, address, or visa card number is...but if her DOB is significantly earlier than 1975 it proves her whole story is one big lie. }

I'm not sure this argument can stand as if I was posing as a "survivor" I'd probably slightly change insignificant data to prevent being identified ie. DOB. Of course in case of Stella who uses her own pictures and videos on the web I doubt she would be smart enough to think of such details.

It doesn't stand in every instance, but it stands in that one. She is offering herself as evidence of the existence of underage sex workers during the decriminalised period. If she was, in fact, 20 in the year she claims she began working, she is no longer evidence of underage sex workers at that time...and if she claims she, in fact, began working in 1986 but change that to avoid identification the whole chronology of everything else she says comes apart at the seams completely. (I thought it through inside out before choosing it as an example)

As an eye witness, I know she is making most, if not all of the things she says up, but I cannot hand you my eyes as evidence. However, if her date of birth is 5 years earlier than she claims it is compelling evidence against her.

Her name, however, would be of no earthly use at all.

As, conversely, Stella Marr's exact date of birth, in different circumstances, has no bearing at all on anything.

[TheseBootsNoLongerWalk]

Before I comment on this post I would like to make a few things very clear. First, I am an ex escort, secondly, I have never had a run in with anyone on this site and when I was working in Ireland got on well with all members of management that I dealt with. Finally, I am hiding my true identity by all means possible as will be made clear in my post.

What I would like to say concerns the public outing of a former escort by another former escort and using this site as a conduit to do so.

I have read and re-read the argument put forward by La Belle Thatcher for doing so and all I can say is "Shame on you". If someone feels aggrieved by what Stella Mar has said online then they can contact a solicitor and easily get her details through court orders from websites and internet service providers. What you are doing is nothing but a hate campaign.

Now that I have got that off my chest I would like to address Patricia, her staff and all the posters on these forums, why do you sit back and let this happen? If it wasn't for the silent majority and passive bystanders in 1930's Germany so many lives would of been saved, you people are doing the exact same but on a much smaller scale (and with obviously less consequences, but with consequences non the less). Escort-Ireland is meant to be a place that champions escorts both past and present, we are meant to feel safe in our own surroundings not getting attacked, no matter what we've done.

Patrica, as an ex escort how can you sit back and use what you've built and own, to become a place of ill repute, pardon the pun ;) No matter what Stella Mar has done or gets accused of doing this is not the place to by outing escorts. From what I see La Belle Thatcher has thought long and hard about what she posted both here and on Twitter and I can see from her history that this is not the first person she has done this too and nor will it be the last.

She has imposed self bans in the past but due to an outcry from posters has always returned when things settle down, but this surely is the last straw and can not be allowed to happen. Who knows what side she will take in the future as she was once anti E-I or so I gathered from her website (I may be wrong but all her old posts seem to be deleted).

Can we please hear from someone with some authority on this as this thread has run to 10 pages and not once has an owner, manager or moderator called for this to be stopped.

Eileen, I also would like to say argue with me all you want but I will not be logging back in to this account and your words will fall on deaf ears so to speak, I have said what I felt needed to be said and feel better for doing so.

Finally, I would ask that this account does not get banned as to do so will only fuel the madcap suspicions of the likes of Ruhama and the many trolls who think people don't get a fair say on Escort Ireland.

Links to Eileen Langs twitter posts about this:
http://twitter.com/LangEileen/status/220334081672613888
http://twitter.com/LangEileen/status/220334327093927938

[LaBelleThatcher]

*chuckles*

Frankly, "TheseBootsNoLongerWalk" the only "hate campaign" around here is *yours*...and I bet I know who you are, and why you are doing it too ;)

[Patricia]

Dear TheseBootsNoLongerWalk,



What I would like to say concerns the public outing of a former escort by another former escort and using this site as a conduit to do so.

I'm aware of Stellamarrgate.

I don't consider it a story of LaBelleThatcher outing StellaMarr on this website.

If you would like to engage with me, please stop trying to twist this into something it isn't.

Pat x

[Patricia]

Eileen, I also would like to say argue with me all you want but I will not be logging back in to this account and your words will fall on deaf ears so to speak, I have said what I felt needed to be said and feel better for doing so.

Finally, I would ask that this account does not get banned as to do so will only fuel the madcap suspicions of the likes of Ruhama and the many trolls who think people don't get a fair say on Escort Ireland.


You will not be logging back into this account but you ask that you are not banned so you can have your fair say?

I'm not sure what your purpose in coming here was, but if you want to debate this, I'm here.

Less passionate references to Nazi Germany and more facts would be super.

[ChiefHandker]

I find it baffling the way this thread has continued for 7 pages, especially given that OP posted a URL linking a former sex worker to her identity, screenshots and all. That stuff is never allowed here and people have been banned for posting less, so why then has this not been edited and removed yet? or does it not suit to apply the rules when it concerns somebody on the other side of the debate?

And sorry LaBelleThatcher, I don't know how you can defend this stuff. LaBelle who on more than one occasion intimated the intent to reveal DublinCallGirl's identity, because *you* didn't believe she was genuine. And then a few weeks later DID "accidentally" out DCG on journal.ie. How does one accidentally type read and submit the wrong name anyway, it isn't the same as verbally saying the wrong name.


You know Pat, the ONLY thing preventing me from "outing" her, and how far from a normal, healthy sex worker she is was that I would be ashamed to be seen to do that while you have all held to the code of silence despite every sick, twisted thing she has said...
It is so unfair it makes me want to...better not say it...


if I see the slightest chance of them succeeding in that I will expose her E-I ID, her real fetishist solicitations and the whole great big lie without turning a hair

Here's the thread in the aftermath.
https://www.escort-ireland.com/boards/threads/91356-I-can-t-have-anyone-else-get-the-blame-for-my-error



Great and now we have this thread flirting with the idea of outing another former sex worker and tweets such as:


The real identity of @stellamarr is now privately available to anyone who needs to take legal action to prevent her from harming them...

I would happily *out* her in a heartbeat, for which I make no apology





It is true, I have seen the evidence for myself and it is conclusive and in forgotten corners of the public domain.
"Stella Marr", much like our home grown "professional survivors" has been using a totally fictitous pseudo identity as "evidence" with which to do a lot of damage to the sex industry and those who work in it while making a lot of personal profit.



I do know "sex workers keep private" but it is very unlikely Stella Marr ever has been, or ever will be, a sex worker, she certainly is not one now

So which is it? Is she totally ficticious or not? I don't care what this woman has been saying to her followers, that's her affair.
The fact that you say it is "very unlikely" that she was ever a sex worker means you are not certain. So why then do you deem a thread outing a possible former sex worker as acceptable?


Alls i'll say is these types of tactics set a worrying precedent and should be left to rag newspapers and the like. Lie down with dogs and you'll end up with fleas.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Ah cop yourself on!

I slipped up and addressed DCG by her anonymous E-I username...that is hardly "outing" anyone.

...and if it showed her up for a malicious fantasist then MAYBE that is more her own fault for *being* one?

If you don't like it, tough...because I do *not* enable abusers and liars for anyone, not even if they have a loaded gun in their hands.

...and I do not see one, single, solitary thing that anyone can do about that.

:)

[Patricia]

ChiefHanker, the StellaMarr situation is something that is going on in America, it is not the case that StellaMarr has been outed by LaBelleThatcher. Nor did LaBelleThatcher out DCG.

I am not a fan of people outing escorts. I would have thought that was pretty clear.

Regards LaBelleThatcher's opinions on this subject, I think you are presenting a rather twisted view of all this, but, in any event, I am not the thought police. We have rules on E-I. By all means let us know where you feel rules have been broken and we need to take action, and we will look into it, but I am not policing you finding fault in LaBelleThatcher's opinions. We have quite enough rules without bringing more in to control what thoughts are and are not acceptable here!

I've looked at the StellaMarr issue. I am not seeing that it is a case that StellaMarr was outed on this website by a user of this website. It seems a rather different kettle of fish to me.

My goodness though, I had no idea you cared so much about the privacy rights of escorts. I look forward to you contributing to threads on this topic in the future, as I've not noticed you having any interest in this subject before. We certainly do have some very serious issues with Irish media violating the privacy of Irish escorts, do you care to stand against that, or are you only interested in this American case with the smallest of links to Ireland?

[Anna23]

Ah cop yourself on!

I slipped up and addressed DCG by her anonymous E-I username...that is hardly "outing" anyone.

...and if it showed her up for a malicious fantasist then MAYBE that is more her own fault for *being* one?

If you don't like it, tough...because I do *not* enable abusers and liars for anyone, not even if they have a loaded gun in their hands.

...and I do not see one, single, solitary thing that anyone can do about that.

:)

Thats what I call integrity:D

[LaBelleThatcher]

Thats what I call integrity:D

Ah thank you Anna, most people just call it "being a bolshi bitch" tbh. :D

[Anna23]

Ah thank you Anna, most people just call it "being a bolshi bitch" tbh. :D

Ok, integrity with a slightly extremist streak that hints on possibly pathological obsession but hey, where would we be without people like you:D

[LaBelleThatcher]

Ok, integrity with a slightly extremist streak that hints on possibly pathological obsession but hey, where would we be without people like you:D

Pathological you say? REALLY?
:D:o:D

That's the NICEST thing anyone EVER said.

[Anna23]

Pathological you say? REALLY?
:D:o:D

That's the NICEST thing anyone EVER said.

Eh, who cares about them labels anyway:D:o

[Lucy Chambers]

Ah cop yourself on!

I slipped up and addressed DCG by her anonymous E-I username...that is hardly "outing" anyone.

...and if it showed her up for a malicious fantasist then MAYBE that is more her own fault for *being* one?

If you don't like it, tough...because I do *not* enable abusers and liars for anyone, not even if they have a loaded gun in their hands.

...and I do not see one, single, solitary thing that anyone can do about that.

:)

Actually, its tantamount to the same thing. As if she saw clients, and saw them at home, they would very likely know who she was or at least where she was. Also she never mentioned EI on her blog or elsewhere, she referenced posts her as anyone is free to do. So why does she deserve that? As to being a fantasist, again, that is your opinion. All of us use pseudonyms online. If you feel that not enabling someone means taking away their right to privacy, then there is little else to say.

This thread isnt fit for purpose anymore. Its kind of pointless too, the womans name is all over the Internet. Well played, whoever thought that one up.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Actually, its tantamount to the same thing. As if she saw clients, and saw that at home, they would very likely know who she was. Also she never mentioned EI on her blog or elsewhere, she referenced posts her as anyone is free to do. So why does she deserve that? As to being a fantasist, again, that is your opinion. All of us use pseudonyms here. If you feel that not enabling someone means taking away their right to privacy, then there is little else to say.


Don't be ridiculous.

The nature of her posts here is totally different to the impression she tries to give in her blog, in fact, not opinion.

"Right to privacy" and "Right to deceive" are two very different things, and frankly, there is no such thing as the second.

[Lucy Chambers]

Don't be ridiculous.

The nature of her posts here is totally different to the impression she tries to give in her blog, in fact, not opinion.

"Right to privacy" and "Right to deceive" are two very different things, and frankly, there is no such thing as the second.


I didnt think I would need to explain that ladies use this form for advertising and promotion purposes. If they indeed posted here, I very much doubt that the style from the blog would have had the desired effect, or infact in any way reflected their true feeling on things.

I also note that she is classed as being deceptive, can I ask how you know this? Were any of us there? Can any of us know how someone might perceive and feel about one thing? I am sorry but I will defend anyones right to free speech,not just those who agree with my ideals.

Lastly, do not be rude. I am an active prostitute. I do know a little about these things.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Lucy,

Are you sure you want to do your best to derail potential submissions to the department of Justice consultation?

I ask, because, if you do, you should really go and find out what Ruhama are prepared to offer you in return for doing that first...I should hate to think you were missing out by jumping the gun. I would say taking me out of the picture (which *is* what you are trying to do, isn't it?) would be worth a great deal to them, so don't sell it cheap.

:)

[Lucy Chambers]

Lucy,

Are you sure you want to do your best to derail potential submissions to the department of Justice consultation?

I ask, because, if you do, you should really go and find out what Ruhama are prepared to offer you in return for doing that first...I should hate to think you were missing out by jumping the gun. I would say taking me out of the picture (which *is* what you are trying to do, isn't it?) would be worth a great deal to them, so don't sell it cheap.

:)

I beg your pardon?

Ok. I give up. You now think I want you out of the picture, because I disagree with you. If only life was that simple. This has nothing to do with you as a person or poster. I would say the same things to anyone who made these posts. I have the greatest of respect for your work in this campaign, but I have my own opinions on these issues and clearly, you cannot see why. So I shall say no more, baseless mudslinging seems to be the order of the day and on these issues it will not help. All I can say is that the comments you made above say far more about you than I. Good evening.

[Rosalind Noble]

I have one major concern with this thread and the reasons it exists.

ALL of the users of this site use pseudonyms, escorts, clients and staff. We all have separate lives away from this virtual world. By suggesting that it is acceptable to out someone's reallife details because they may or may not be a faking/exaggerating/outright lying based on supposition with no hard facts other than belief and internet chinese whispers opens all of us up to exposure by any one who thinks we deserve it.

Please don't start using the techniques we deplore when used by the press and by the abolitionists. Just think what pain is caused when a girl has her details emblazoned across the press or when a client has to go home and face his family when he has been exposed to judgement. I thought this was a forum where we could all be safe to discuss, debate and disagree, with no fear or shame.

Outing the enemy just invites any enemy to out us in return. Once the floodgates are opened we can never put that water back.

LaBelle I have read many of your posts and agreed with some, been ambivalent about others and disagreed with some too. But this worries me. It suggests that dirty tricks are fine as long as it's the good guys using them. But everyone on every side of this debate believes themselves to be the good guys. If Stella Marr is a scam artist then she should be outed by evidence not by belief. And that evidence should be open to scrutiny.

Technology has made the world small, but it is not that small. What impact does Stella Marr have on the escort scene in Ireland? Is she really such a threat to us here? Why is it so vital that an American who campaigns in the US should be outed so vehemently in Ireland? Even if the information is available online, should a supportive community really be joining in the mob of villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches?

[LaBelleThatcher]

I beg your pardon?

Ok. I give up. You now think I want you out of the picture, because I disagree with you.

No, you want me out of the picture because I won't take orders from you and and you can't get anything "on" me to use as leverage.

Well Lucy, I just don't get into those stupid, cruel, little power games, here or anywhere. I cannot see the point in them.

I am who I am, and I put far more thought into all aspects of what is right and what is wrong, *before* I act than the vast majority of people ever do, and by the time I choose to act I am certain I have made the best decision, so there is nothing in me for you to play on there.

That leaves you three choices:

You can play to the gallery for effect
You can come up with some cunning strategy to get me banned or cyberbullied out of here
You can let it drop


Choice is yours.

I will go on being me, and doing what I know to be right until someone finally finds a way to put me down.

That is the way it is, and it is not negotiable

[Lucy Chambers]

No, you want me out of the picture because I won't take orders from you and and you can't get anything "on" me to use as leverage.

Well Lucy, I just don't get into those stupid, cruel, little power games, here or anywhere. I cannot see the point in them.

I am who I am, and I put far more thought into all aspects of what is right and what is wrong, *before* I act than the vast majority of people ever do, and by the time I choose to act I am certain I have made the best decision, so there is nothing in me for you to play on there.

That leaves you three choices:

You can play to the gallery for effect
You can come up with some cunning strategy to get me banned or cyberbullied out of here
You can let it drop


Choice is yours.

I will go on being me, and doing what I know to be right until someone finally finds a way to put me down.

That is the way it is, and it is not negotiable

Once again.

I dont think it is right to out anyone on the Internet, despite what they may say or do.


I don't think it was right to disclose an ID for a woman who writes a blog detailing her darkest days in the sex industry.


If you cannot see that is what I am saying, then look at this. I have merely disagreed with you on the above points. You have then made your last two posts filled with innuendo and misrepresentation about my character and motives. Is this what happens when you dont like what someone has to say?

I feel this is an impasse. I wish you good luck with your endeavours.

[saoirsemac]

No, you want me out of the picture because I won't take orders from you and and you can't get anything "on" me to use as leverage.

Well Lucy, I just don't get into those stupid, cruel, little power games, here or anywhere. I cannot see the point in them.

I am who I am, and I put far more thought into all aspects of what is right and what is wrong, *before* I act than the vast majority of people ever do, and by the time I choose to act I am certain I have made the best decision, so there is nothing in me for you to play on there.

That leaves you three choices:

You can play to the gallery for effect
You can come up with some cunning strategy to get me banned or cyberbullied out of here
You can let it drop


Choice is yours.

I will go on being me, and doing what I know to be right until someone finally finds a way to put me down.

That is the way it is, and it is not negotiable



with all do respect this is not the streets eileen and we are not street workers

maybe doing shitty fucking things to other girls is fine there

but u will find the escorts tend to stick together, when u go on site after site u go on about things like street work we all arent
the vast majorty of us aint


and lastly ur comment to lucy is showing how poor ur judgement is when your upset, if lucy coinsiding with them

enda kenny the number one contact for talbian

get a grip eileen, ur not always right and this game may have the same fudemental rules form u day, but its played much differently

[LaBelleThatcher]

with all do respect this is not the streets eileen and we are not street workers

maybe doing shitty fucking things to other girls is fine there

but u will find the escorts tend to stick together, when u go on site after site u go on about things like street work we all arent
the vast majorty of us aint


and lastly ur comment to lucy is showing how poor ur judgement is when your upset, if lucy coinsiding with them

enda kenny the number one contact for talbian

get a grip eileen, ur not always right and this game may have the same fudemental rules form u day, but its played much differently

Saoirse,

Please, you mistake me, I am not upset at all, I am just a bit disgusted by the pair of you and your silly games right now.

[Lucy Chambers]

Saoirse,

Please, you mistake me, I am not upset at all, I am just a bit disgusted by the pair of you and your silly games right now.

Defending the right to privacy will never be a silly game. I am disgusted that you so readily turn on those you purport to defend. Nor am I upset, merely validated. I am very bemused that any debate could be led here, but here we are.

[saoirsemac]

Saoirse,

Please, you mistake me, I am not upset at all, I am just a bit disgusted by the pair of you and your silly games right now.


an opinion is a silly game? form two working indie escorts? o sorry i didnt realise this was the eileen show

u made an absurd and untrue remark about lucy who doing nothing but disagreeing with ur method to out an ex sex worker

how ever u do it, its wrong

and that something i believe

hardly a game,thats what ur playing with someone life by outing them

u claim to speak for us u know as much ruhuma knows, u go on about this and that

well love it aint the 90's


and lucy or i are very much entitled to our opinions at least we can pull our heads out of asses and know right form wrong

[Lucy Chambers]

It looks as though we have reached a point where we cannot go on.

All I really have to say is this. Every single person is here because we are anonymous. We all have our own views, our own faults, our own opinions. How would you feel tomorrow if someone found you messed up and linked your facebook page to your ID? How would you feel if your name, your husbands name, your date of birth was being thrown up and scrutinised? Oh, its fine to say it might be a scam and she is hurting us. Is it fine to do that? Is it fine to act in a manner that can hurt whole families, jobs, lives, just because they have an agenda? If so run off and find the name for every nun and do gooder in Ruhama. Spend your life proving them liars. Burn yourself out on a pyre of righteousness. This woman, Stella Marr, all she did was write something that jars with the norm. Maybe its all a lie, who knows? I leave that type of wonder to the press. DCG, I know is real. So all of that is a moot point.


Or not. Put your case across clearly, respectfully and most of all, be above reproach. Be the person you wish you could oppose. Anything else is hypocritical. I am out of this debate, I am completely alienated by what I have seen and heard now. I think you will find most will be.

[Patricia]

Oh dear, clearly I have some reading to do...

[Patricia]

Clearly a conversation about a situation in America has provoked strong feelings here.

I'll repeat it again. If StellaMarr was "outed", this was done in America by Americans. This is not an Irish situation.

In regard to here, it has always been E-I policy that outing escorts is wrong, and this will continue to be E-I policy.

I don't want to come down with a tough moderation hammer here. But this thread has become unpleasant and nonconstructive, and I think everyone has said enough now, so I am going to close it.