View Full Version : ruhama in the journal.ie
IrishSarah
21-05-12, 11:42
http://www.thejournal.ie/women-sell-sex-because-they-have-to-says-new-campaign-451428-May2012/
just incase anyone hasn't seen it!
:)
sarah
Thanks Sarah, it makes interesting reading indeed.
Ruhama are obviously pushing the point that escort (or prostitution) isn't a viable career choice, however it is obvious that they aren't really covering all bases . I doubt Ruhama would be willing to publish the success stories from some of our escort advertisers that have done very well out of their careers. :rolleyes:
Thank you Sarah.
Here's an excerpt from the article:
Ruhama provides a unique front line service to women affected by prostitution and sex trafficking and Benson said its approach “is holistic and completely non-judgemental”. “Ruhama aims to create options which empower women to make real choices, through a range of services including: one to one support, education, counselling, personal development, and support to access residency and housing.”
From all Ruhamma have done and said - it is very clear that there are extremely judgemental of any woman who makes the choice to work as an escort. Their dogma is that no woman in her right mind could ever make the choice to become an escort willingly.
LaBelle's blog outlines the other side of choice. http://www.stop-the-lights.com/
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 13:51
i agree with wat they are saying to a point
i wudnt be doing this if i didnt have too of course, yes
but u see if i like many others had the luck of winning the lotto wudnt we all give up our jobs?
like i dnt have to be an escort, i cud be on the dole. or i cud find another job move anyway
but
this to me is viable option, good income i get to stay in ireland, pay my education etc
yes dangerous job but ive no issue with it tbh, wat about working in shop u cud be held at gun point, and making a fuck lot less money
there judgement is based on the fact, they truly cannot believe women can enjoy sex, outside of a relationship or marraige
fair enough alot escorts can think like that too,
this is just a job for us, u simple must be more opened minded sexual espically, liking sex also helps greatly
wat ruhuma wnt talk about, is the women who made successful careers form this, why? we go againist the image they want to protray, they know about us indeed they do, they choose not to see us
i agree with wat they are saying to a point
i wudnt be doing this if i didnt have too of course, yes
but u see if i like many others had the luck of winning the lotto wudnt we all give up our jobs?
like i dnt have to be an escort, i cud be on the dole. or i cud find another job move anyway
but
this to me is viable option, good income i get to stay in ireland, pay my education etc
yes dangerous job but ive no issue with it tbh, wat about working in shop u cud be held at gun point, and making a fuck lot less money
there judgement is based on the fact, they truly cannot believe women can enjoy sex, outside of a relationship or marraige
fair enough alot escorts can think like that too,
this is just a job for us, u simple must be more opened minded sexual espically, liking sex also helps greatly
wat ruhuma wnt talk about, is the women who made successful careers form this, why? we go againist the image they want to protray, they know about us indeed they do, they choose not to see us
No one wants to grow up to work in McDonalds but some are forced to do so as thats all they can find
Should they be rescued (Im sure they earn less than an escort)
I love when they say , no little girl dreams of becomming a prostitute
Im sure most little girls dont dream of being a nuclear physist or a moleculer scientist
Most little girls dream of being a princess (And unless they are from royalty theres no chance of that happening unless they marry a prince. )
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 14:14
No one wants to grow up to work in McDonalds but some are forced to do so as thats all they can find
Should they be rescued (Im sure they earn less than an escort)
I love when they say , no little girl dreams of becomming a prostitute
Im sure most little girls dont dream of being a nuclear physist or a moleculer scientist
Most little girls dream of being a princess (And unless they are from royalty theres no chance of that happening unless they marry a prince. )
see now ur worse, for that sterotype i knew little girls who wanted to scientist, i wanted to be well wnt be saying that but wasnt a princess, i knew not one litte girl like that, we wanted to doctors nurses teachers vets etc or hairdressers
and yes i didnt think i was going to be an escort but looking back even in my teenage years, i had clicked something pretty fast men want sex, they often dnt care with who, sex equals a tool for me to use.... that a love of casual safe sex
i kinda took to this like a duck to water, making money of my skills works for me,
same as when i worked anywhere i got jobs and made money off my skills and personailty work ethic etc
my point its just a job, and ruhuma need to realise that not everyone is a victim,
i rather fuck an eighty year old man calling him daddy for 100e for 30min, and not like he last that
than work in macdonalds for mininum age but thats just me, not every girl can be an escort
like not every person cud be a nurse doctor vet teacher etc, how many teacher have mental breakdowns form been in the worng job, nurses and doctors who get prebscibtion drug addiction
how many men are in armys police force where they work in dangerous occupations out of need not want?
give me a break there stats are a joke the ideals are a joke the goverment wud be better letting escorts have an union and let the voice of prostition be a sex worker, not a bible basher!
those who dont know shudnt teach nor preach
how can they talk to real victims, if anything, id imagine they wud make u worse, telling u how wrong prostition is etc
when the girl needs to other stand it wasnt for you and not your fault in the case of entering willing
prostition can be used like drugs, in abusive way to hide pay change who u are etc, but that can happen in any walk of life
the people who are abused and walk away for this abused, where often or not victims before they set out, and if u keep blaming hooking for ur problems without addressing what really went wrong, well u will just find another way to punish urself, tbh maybe post traumatic stress form this is ur new punishment....
coz if ur not cut out u get out fast, but if ur not cut out and looking to be a victim u find u stay, sounds harsh but when u get down to it its true, life has victims and surivours,
the women i know who work as escorts are surivours do wat u gotta do
or there victims who will always seek punishment
women who are forced is a different matter of course,
see now ur worse, for that sterotype i knew little girls who wanted to scientist, i wanted to be well wnt be saying that but wasnt a princess, i knew not one litte girl like that, we wanted to doctors nurses teachers vets etc or hairdressers
and yes i didnt think i was going to be an escort but looking back even in my teenage years, i had clicked something pretty fast men want sex, they often dnt care with who, sex equals a tool for me to use.... that a love of casual safe sex
i kinda took to this like a duck to water, making money of my skills works for me,
same as when i worked anywhere i got jobs and made money off my skills and personailty work ethic etc
my point its just a job, and ruhuma need to realise that not everyone is a victim,
i rather fuck an eighty year old man calling him daddy for 100e for 30min, and not like he last that
than work in macdonalds for mininum age but thats just me, not every girl can be an escort
like not every person cud be a nurse doctor vet teacher etc, how many teacher have mental breakdowns form been in the worng job, nurses and doctors who get prebscibtion drug addiction
how many men are in armys police force where they work in dangerous occupations out of need not want?
give me a break there stats are a joke the ideals are a joke the goverment wud be better letting escorts have an union and let the voice of prostition be a sex worker, not a bible basher!
those who dont know shudnt teach nor preach
how can they talk to real victims, if anything, id imagine they wud make u worse, telling u how wrong prostition is etc
when the girl needs to other stand it wasnt for you and not your fault in the case of entering willing
prostition can be used like drugs, in abusive way to hide pay change who u are etc, but that can happen in any walk of life
the people who are abused and walk away for this abused, where often or not victims before they set out, and if u keep blaming hooking for ur problems without addressing what really went wrong, well u will just find another way to punish urself, tbh maybe post traumatic stress form this is ur new punishment....
coz if ur not cut out u get out fast, but if ur not cut out and looking to be a victim u find u stay, sounds harsh but when u get down to it its true, life has victims and surivours,
the women i know who work as escorts are surivours do wat u gotta do
or there victims who will always seek punishment
women who are forced is a different matter of course,
Yes Sao I was generalising, like Ruhama themselves (see how easy it is)
You are right though, It could be said that you have a specific skill set that you have to practice and hone so you can give an excellent service to your client base.
Yes as it was said before Ruhama should not tar every escort as a victim
We as a society dont view every nun or priest as a sexual predator
Of course the stats a re a joke
If anyone came forward ti challenge those facts they would be accused of aiding the trafrficking an exploitation of women. Most people in society see sex work as tabboo and will beieve whatever the mainstream media depict
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 14:27
just read the comments dear fucking jesus
this poverty shit ffs, we have a dole system here a fairly fucking good one tbh
they way they precieve prossies like some kinda crack head whore, who sells herself for her fix and hostel
ok i cant spell as im dysleix but im well educated, and i cud get a job maybe not in ireland but i wud elsewhere handy enu
how am i fucking victim making wat i do? freely without giving a cut only to the taxman?
give me strength
i wish i had nothing to loose and my family knew about this, and i cud shout about this more
but i cant,
heather made a point on a thread before saying its a shame ''we feel we cant show our faces'' well isnt we dont show them becasue of the stigma attached
to be outted as a hooker ur branded for life
ruhuma named after new begins, yet support the outting of escort in the case of public intreast
how is that a new beginning? coz once ur branded u wil never run form this
i am not ashamed of been an escort, but society are
remember salem, u cud have an arguement with someone and if loosing u cud shout witch witch witch, and the towns folk wud gather for the burning and trail,
so anytimes we try to stand up, they accuss us of been pimp pretending, and they can do that, fear and reiligon and lack of understanding will allow it
just read the comments dear fucking jesus
this poverty shit ffs, we have a dole system here a fairly fucking good one tbh
they way they precieve prossies like some kinda crack head whore, who sells herself for her fix and hostel
ok i cant spell as im dysleix but im well educated, and i cud get a job maybe not in ireland but i wud elsewhere handy enu
how am i fucking victim making wat i do? freely without giving a cut only to the taxman?
give me strength
i wish i had nothing to loose and my family knew about this, and i cud shout about this more
but i cant,
heather made a point on a thread before saying its a shame ''we feel we cant show our faces'' well isnt we dont show them becasue of the stigma attached
to be outted as a hooker ur branded for life
ruhuma named after new begins, yet support the outting of escort in the case of public intreast
how is that a new beginning? coz once ur branded u wil never run form this
i am not ashamed of been an escort, but society are
Cant you see Sao You are being sexualy exploited for money
You are not in control of your own desires anymore
You should be at home under your husbands control chained to the kitchen and at his beck and call
I do agree if your branded a hooker your a stigmatised pariah in society
and why? because you rent a service .
Sexy Sandy 69
21-05-12, 14:35
It's interesting that Ruhuma state that the sex industry doesn't get the indepth discussion that it requires, that's probably because nobody in Ruhuma or the media is interested in hearing the other side of the sex industry arguement. Just for the record & incase someone from Ruhuma is reading this forum, we are educated, we are working of our own free will, we are not trafficked, we are working independently & we dont need 'rescuing'.
Busty Sandy x
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 14:38
has any of the know indie poster on ei
as we know ruhuma reads this btw way hi :wave:
ever been contacted by them for a better understanding who better to ask but us
but they rather mary o connor form thurles housewife and wife to seanie for 50 years take on it, coz she goes to mass every sunday and does wat she told like a good little catholic lapdog, that that generation was
as i said keep folk in the dark its better for them
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 14:40
Cant you see Sao You are being sexualy exploited for money
You are not in control of your own desires anymore
You should be at home under your husbands control chained to the kitchen and at his beck and call
I do agree if your branded a hooker your a stigmatised pariah in society
and why? because you rent a service .
no darling its coz i choose to sell sex,
the catholic church ran this country no condoms no birth control no abortions u got married or pregnent say goodbye to ur job why?
why also is there no women high up in the church?
it will be and always be about the want and need to have control of women
has any of the know indie poster on ei
as we know ruhuma reads this btw way hi :wave:
ever been contacted by them for a better understanding who better to ask but us
but they rather mary o connor form thurles housewife and wife to seanie for 50 years take on it, coz she goes to mass every sunday and does wat she told like a good little catholic lapdog, that that generation was
as i said keep folk in the dark its better for them
Put it this way , if there isnt enough damsels in distress, funding tends to diminish
We are now in a heavy recession , Unless there is an epidemic of sexworkers being abused trafficked an exploited there is a chance for theur funding to be cut
Expect a sharp rise if all of the above before the next budget takes place
no darling its coz i choose to sell sex,
the catholic church ran this country no condoms no birth control no abortions u got married or pregnent say goodbye to ur job why?
why also is there no women high up in the church?
it will be and always be about the want and need to have control of women
What, a woman with a choice, in modern Catholic Ireland? I will not stand for this kind of thinking
Back to the kitchen with you wench
saoirsemac
21-05-12, 14:49
What, a woman with a choice, in modern Catholic Ireland? I will not stand for this kind of thinking
Back to the kitchen with you wench
im putting on the kettle want a cuppa
eh tis always about money, and they must keep there nice salaries in a country who went form boom to bust on the back of greed, why no one in the goverement isnt like em ya,
how do they get there stats? i persume they survey escorts?
i havent been asked any other girls?
id be happy to parcipatate
im putting on the kettle want a cuppa
eh tis always about money, and they must keep there nice salaries in a country who went form boom to bust on the back of greed, why no one in the goverement isnt like em ya,
how do they get there stats? i persume they survey escorts?
i havent been asked any other girls?
id be happy to parcipatate
I think you and other indies would skew their results .
I wonder if Vincent Brown would chair a debate bewteen Ruhama and the SWAI . (Id have a feeling Mrs Benson or Rowley wouldnt appear on forum where their stats figures and ethos would be challenged) Im sure they will stick to their own biased media forums. Much safer and easier to remind people that all sex workers are drug riddled victims
LaBelleThatcher
21-05-12, 16:35
this poverty shit ffs, we have a dole system here a fairly fucking good one tbh
Loving most of your comments Saoirse :D
But I have to pick up on this, simply because we MUST not become what we should be opposing and invalidate everybody who isn't in the same position as us.
There is a good welfare system, and, at this point, it covers most people pretty well, but it is far from watertight. I fell through the holes in the system (can I take a raincheck on explaining exactly why for now? It's complicated stuff in my case) and wound up, literally, with no way to survive and sustain a tolerable quality of life apart from sex work. I am not suited to it, hated it...you name it...BUT...if you took sex work away, that's it, there was nothing else...
...and, one worse, I am not unique in that. Life can be tough and nasty that way.
There certainly are women making a living out of sex work because they have to, not because they want to, but that certainly doesn't mean taking their income away (as Ruhama spend most of their income campaigning to do) is, in any way, "best for them". Just because I needed to get out of sex work so badly, doesn't mean it would do me any good to be indoctrinated with their "Black is white, roight?" ideology telling me that "all clients are rapists"...I couldn't cope with that...
I actually had a taste of it once, calling round, in about 1994, looking for some kind of advice/help/counselling to overcome the effects of childhood (non-sexual) abuse. I got as far as "Rape Crisis" they gave me a few numbers for private counsellors, then I mentioned I had been a sex worker...she POUNCED on that really aggressively and informed me that *THEY* would counsel me for free instead, because I had neen sexually abused...we wound up having a shouting row about it over the phone, with me trying to insist I had *NEVER* been sexually abused, and the problem had nothing to do with sex, and she yelling at me that I was in denial!
I wrote her off as a nutter, made a written complaint to Rape Crisis (this was around the time of a lot of "false memory" controversies)...and warned people off "Rape Crisis since.
Leave it to your imagination how healthy it would be to be "counselled" and "helped" from a perspective like Ruhama's even if you desperately needed to get out of sex work...as I did...
Also, have you any idea how their affiliate organisation operate? Sonas housing, for example, have more personally invasive rules and regulations than an open prison. Leaving aside how morally wrong that really is, not everybody can tolerate that level of dysfunctional micromanagement. Some people crack up "because" of "help" like that.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is, sex work is a business, like any other, some people choose it freely, some are forced into it by circumstances, but the only way to know about that is to ask them, and if they say the answer is "none of your business", then accept, the answer is none of your business.
Nobody needs to know the answer anyway...shouldn't we be aiming for a society where NOBODY has to do anything that causes them distress for a living out of financial desperation? Not just sex work?
Of course, for anyone who wants to make a good salary and career out of the NGO circuit, we are the lowest hanging fruit of all...because they keep us SO stigmatised and so misrepresented that we CANNOT AFFORD TO STAND UP TO THEM IN PUBLIC.
They go into schools and misinform young people, who shouldn't have to be hearing about this stuff at all, about us...they KNOW we cannot fight back...it is EASY to crucify us (and, by the way, our families), because all they have to do is tell everyone it is "for our own good", just like the laundries. They know we cannot afford to show them up for the liars they are.
LaBelleThatcher
21-05-12, 16:48
I think you and other indies would skew their results .
I wonder if Vincent Brown would chair a debate bewteen Ruhama and the SWAI .
Sadly Doozer, SWAI are pretty much as bad as Ruhama...it's really an NGO turf war over funding. SWAI don't want any real sex workers getting in the way or queering the pitch for their agenda either.
The way things actually work, in the murky world of the Voluntary and Community sector, with or without law reform, the Goverment are cutting back on funding unless it provides concrete services, resources and projects for the target group. Due to other precedents, individualisation (and a measure of common sense) there is no justification in giving an acutely biased NGO sector a monopoly on service provision for a specific target group, not without an available alternative...and then there was SWAI...
As for where Ruhama get their stats, Pat dug out a beautiful example a few weeks ago:
http://epubs.rcsi.ie/psycholrep/10/
Ruhama told them not to bother the women, and offered 8 members of staff (including volunteers and one man) to guesstimate on their behalf...with results that might be hilarious if it were not so serious a subject.
LaBelleThatcher
21-05-12, 17:21
http://www.thejournal.ie/women-sell-sex-because-they-have-to-says-new-campaign-451428-May2012/
just incase anyone hasn't seen it!
:)
sarah
Are you Sarah Benson? Because, if so, I think you should be here to ask questions not make announcements.
:)
Jack in the Box
27-05-12, 22:32
What a waste of space Ruhama are!! The same with the Immigrant Council of Ireland. Does everybody who buys clothes cause forced labour of people making clothes? Cutting the funds of Ruhama was the best thing that ever happened. They are just a blight on society. I think that it is important for all the sex workers who use this site to come forward and state that they are not being exploited. This will send a powerful message to people like Ruhama.
wexfordboyo
28-05-12, 01:02
I had a look at their site for the laugh. They want people to use this photo as their facebook profile picture:
http://www.ruhama.ie/easyedit/files/campaignimageforsocialmedia.jpg
"Women sell sex because they have to, not because they want to"
Good point by Ruhuma there you might think. Until you think about it for 5 seconds and think that the only reason anyone sells anything in the world is because they have to, not because they want to. The only reason about 99.999% of the worlds population go to work is because they have to. How many peoples alarms go off at 7am and they think "great, work today, nothing in the world I'd rather do today"?
LaBelleThatcher
28-05-12, 07:53
What a waste of space Ruhama are!! The same with the Immigrant Council of Ireland. Does everybody who buys clothes cause forced labour of people making clothes? Cutting the funds of Ruhama was the best thing that ever happened. They are just a blight on society. I think that it is important for all the sex workers who use this site to come forward and state that they are not being exploited. This will send a powerful message to people like Ruhama.
I think the people here make it plain that they are not being exploited every time they say anything...perhaps they should take it a little further and actually state:
Whether they wish to be involved with Ruhama?
Whether they feel their views are being represented by Ruhama?
I had a look at their site for the laugh. They want people to use this photo as their facebook profile picture:
http://www.ruhama.ie/easyedit/files/campaignimageforsocialmedia.jpg
"Women sell sex because they have to, not because they want to"
Good point by Ruhuma there you might think. Until you think about it for 5 seconds and think that the only reason anyone sells anything in the world is because they have to, not because they want to. The only reason about 99.999% of the worlds population go to work is because they have to. How many peoples alarms go off at 7am and they think "great, work today, nothing in the world I'd rather do today"?
I am glad to see you state the obvious in black and white...but what I really want to know is:
If they sell sex because they have to, how is that an argument for taking their market away? Strikes me as more like an argument for leaving their market alone unless you can find a way to expand it!
If somebody really *has* to do something, on which planet does it get to be fair game to make that harder for them?
As for the image...has anyone else noticed that the image on their "FreeIrishWoman" blog is just another, very professional (probably very expensive) approach to the same concept?
The level of blatant deceit they get away with astounds me. Leave aside, for a minute, how people in general feel about sex work and the sex industry, how ON EARTH, does is go on being acceptable to go on pouring public funds into that while essential children's services are being cut? That is just bizarre...
If it means that much to them let the trustee Religious Orders (Good Shepherd and Daughters of Charity) fund it. After all they still refuse to compensate or even apologise to the victims of their Magdalene Laundries and the state is having to pick up the tab for the damage they did there too.
LaBelleThatcher
28-05-12, 09:59
Let me just add something that just unnerved me, if the recession gets any deeper, this is an example of what Ruhama are happy to consciously wish on the lives of the women that, by their own admission, *have to sell sex*:
http://www.rt.com/news/greece-double-suicide-crisis-136/
I am SO TIRED of safe, privileged, D4 wannabe brats trying to take it upon themselves to dictate the lives of real people who have to live in the real world instead of their charmed lives.
Look at the sh*t they pile on E-I and Pat as a way of life?
Yet whatever else, you may be very sure nobody around here will ever do anything to push anyone into the kind of absolute desperation Ruhama are working towards.
Jack in the Box
04-06-12, 21:25
I think the people here make it plain that they are not being exploited every time they say anything...perhaps they should take it a little further and actually state:
Whether they wish to be involved with Ruhama?
Whether they feel their views are being represented by Ruhama?
I am glad to see you state the obvious in black and white...but what I really want to know is:
If they sell sex because they have to, how is that an argument for taking their market away? Strikes me as more like an argument for leaving their market alone unless you can find a way to expand it!
If somebody really *has* to do something, on which planet does it get to be fair game to make that harder for them?
As for the image...has anyone else noticed that the image on their "FreeIrishWoman" blog is just another, very professional (probably very expensive) approach to the same concept?
The level of blatant deceit they get away with astounds me. Leave aside, for a minute, how people in general feel about sex work and the sex industry, how ON EARTH, does is go on being acceptable to go on pouring public funds into that while essential children's services are being cut? That is just bizarre...
If it means that much to them let the trustee Religious Orders (Good Shepherd and Daughters of Charity) fund it. After all they still refuse to compensate or even apologise to the victims of their Magdalene Laundries and the state is having to pick up the tab for the damage they did there too.
LaBelleThatcher.
Maybe a sort of petition could be organised. If for arguments sake 100 sex workers endorsed a statement saying that they are their own boss in their work, are against criminalisation and do not support Ruhama's position this would be something that could not be ignored. At the moment Ruhama and co. are trying to make out that number of escorts that choose to do their own thing is like the amount of power used up in copper wires.