View Full Version : Traffiking Lecture
I know some people who have attended this lecture.
They have informed me that the thrust of these lectures is that ALL escorts are trafficked and no single one is independent
ie there is only the appearance of independence with the girls being threatened in the background etc
Is this true?
57753
Rosalind Noble
30-03-12, 08:44
I know some people who have attended this lecture.
They have informed me that the thrust of these lectures is that ALL escorts are trafficked and no single one is independent
ie there is only the appearance of independence with the girls being threatened in the background etc
Is this true?
57753
HELL YEAH!!!!
The cats repeatedly threaten me with violence if I won't fund their catnip habit!!!!
Lucy Chambers
30-03-12, 08:51
I know some people who have attended this lecture.
They have informed me that the thrust of these lectures is that ALL escorts are trafficked and no single one is independent
ie there is only the appearance of independence with the girls being threatened in the background etc
Is this true?
57753
Well, you can't get funding for a problem unless you create a huge problem. There aren't actually that many Independents in Ireland though, i'm afraid to say. There is a blog by Independent escorts, reading through it would seem to refute the suggestions made.
storiesbehindtheredlight.wordpress.com
Curvaceous Kate
30-03-12, 09:16
One of the great things about coming over to Ireland is the lack of traffic. I love driving over there, so no I would say they were wrong. That's why I'm coming on the ferry next time for those lovely clear roads. I'm not a fan of those tolls mind, there are far too many of them.
This is actually something which annoys me, and it seems to be particular in the Northern understanding of the issue, and what's worse is that it seems to go unqualified in both media and academic coverage. At least during the edition of RTE Prime Time they did (at least twice) acknowledge that some girls do work by choice. This is the sort of stuff that would get you stamped as generalising and a downright exaggerator or scaremonger on any other issue, but it seems to be acceptable when it comes to this issue, yet a few weeks ago I, too, probably would have accepted it as gospel.
As has been pointed out, Irish independent escorts are quite rare, however I've reached the conclusion that either they've employed some of the best image people and psychologists from Hollywood to make themselves "appear independent" or they actually are, in fact, independent. I can't say for sure as I've yet to have my first indulgence with an escort.
Alyssa Jenkins
30-03-12, 09:38
I think its pretty clear to see who the real independents are in Ireland. How on earth would someone for example traffic me? What on earth would they threaten me with? I have a very open profile around on the web in porn films as well as travelling to many different countries with reviews on other well established sites? So how would that justify that question who on earth came all the way to New Zealand threatened me and forced me to make porn films and to travel to many exotic countries? I think that answers your question.
I must agree with Lucy's observation though yes this problem exists and there are not that many "real' independents in Ireland. I do hope that this can be sorted out somehow but going after independents saying we are forced to work is not the answer either however you do need to ask yourself a question. Which media is going to cause more mainstream attention: A picture of an independent escort who does'nt take drugs does'nt really drink alcohol much, comes from a fairly normal background no sign of abuse or a dysfunctional family and enjoys what she does and likes to maintain a certain lifestyle until such a time as she wants to do something else or the other version a drug addicted, alcoholic who has been abused and has been coerced and forced into being an escort?
yes there seems to be a growing media/public outcry on this issue in the North at present.Said lecture was attended by some work colleagues girls who were horrified by stories of beatings threats to families back home and threat of physical viloence to themsleves if for instance they got a poor review!!!
It seems exaggerated to me , I dont doubt there is trafficking but any of the girls I have met are advertised as independent and appear to be totally independent- they have careers , are students or just young mums with kids to feed back home
The only anomaly and this is a question for the escorts is why and how do you tour- why stay only a few days and then move on
How is your accomodation arranged
I have seen about 10 different girls in the same apartment over a period of a year say why not stay put?
yes there seems to be a growing media/public outcry on this issue in the North at present.Said lecture was attended by some work colleagues girls who were horrified by stories of beatings threats to families back home and threat of physical viloence to themsleves if for instance they got a poor review!!!
It seems exaggerated to me , I dont doubt there is trafficking but any of the girls I have met are advertised as independent and appear to be totally independent- they have careers , are students or just young mums with kids to feed back home
The only anomaly and this is a question for the escorts is why and how do you tour- why stay only a few days and then move on
How is your accomodation arranged
I have seen about 10 different girls in the same apartment over a period of a year say why not stay put?
I don't think it's really appropriate to ask how an escort makes her accommodation arrangements (independent or not). Escorts move around because they tend to tour anyway. We also have to remember not to confuse 'agency' with 'trafficking' because they are two separate issues, although sometimes they do go hand-in-hand, but not as often as people tend to think.
We are living in times where the media are 'attacking' the sex industry and unfortunately seem to be turning these terms into coined-phrases, in my opinion, trivialising the real-life horror cases that are actually out there.
The only anomaly and this is a question for the escorts is why and how do you tour- why stay only a few days and then move on
How is your accomodation arranged
I have seen about 10 different girls in the same apartment over a period of a year say why not stay put?
That's the one issue that has confused me in the past as well, but I'm content that the women involved are independent, so it's more a logistics related issue than anything else, and that's not of my concern.
What is of importance in this issue is choice.
Lucy Chambers
30-03-12, 10:17
yes there seems to be a growing media/public outcry on this issue in the North at present.Said lecture was attended by some work colleagues girls who were horrified by stories of beatings threats to families back home and threat of physical viloence to themsleves if for instance they got a poor review!!!
It seems exaggerated to me , I dont doubt there is trafficking but any of the girls I have met are advertised as independent and appear to be totally independent- they have careers , are students or just young mums with kids to feed back home
The only anomaly and this is a question for the escorts is why and how do you tour- why stay only a few days and then move on
How is your accomodation arranged
I have seen about 10 different girls in the same apartment over a period of a year say why not stay put?
I hate being stuck on one place, the only clear real selling point for this work for me is the ability to travel. Suffice to say I arrange my own accommodation and it is safe, as a client that is all you really need to know.
its good to see replies from who i consider to be obvious independent touring escorts (all english, irish origin).Having met several of these types over the last few years I am confident that they are genuinely independent and have a 'career' history elsewhere in the uk before coming to Ireland and as you know its no big deal to find loads of such adverts in England
As a punter it is important that I am happy that I am dealing with independents and test out in a devils advocate sort of way all the standard queries that may come into my mind
To hear from this lecture that the Police now monitor websites and posters incl reviewers means that one must exercise caution and be assured that any appointment is with a genuine independent
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 12:59
I have seen about 10 different girls in the same apartment over a period of a year say why not stay put?
I think I can answer this. It's very simple, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Clients are very naughty boys...though they should, by right, pick an escort and swear lifelong fealty, they usually prefer variety instead. :(
If you offer them variety, everybody is happier and/or makes more money. If they tend to use the same apartments that is probably for the exact same reason golfers, ornithologists and the common train spotter do that too. One of them has found an apartment that is suitable, and where she is left in peace - and word got around.
Would you prefer they all try new unknown places and wind up upsetting the neighbours because they turn out to have paper thin walls and be full of families with small children, or elderly people instead?
Clients are very naughty boys...though they should, by right, pick an escort and swear lifelong fealty, they usually prefer variety instead. :(
Couldn't resist, currently adding "fealty" to my list of everyday terms that I shall attempt to use wherever possible.
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any man, woman, foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject; that I will support and defend [INSERT ESCORT NAME] against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of her when required; that I will perform work of national importance under her direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
Sorry, I'll shut up now and go off and do something useful. :o
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 13:15
We also have to remember not to confuse 'agency' with 'trafficking' because they are two separate issues, although sometimes they do go hand-in-hand, but not as often as people tend to think.
Yes, one is a serious workers rights issue (50:50? COME ON that is NOT acceptable...and NO working escort in their right minds should be accepting it), the other is a very serious crime that combines abduction and rape and places the victim in mortal danger...and we need to turn the spotlight on that before people get the connotations of both horribly mixed up. :(
We are living in times where the media are 'attacking' the sex industry and unfortunately seem to be turning these terms into coined-phrases, in my opinion, trivialising the real-life horror cases that are actually out there.
Can't say enough about this myself...give people this idea that trafficking victims are perfectly ok except in that they are having too much paid sex (which f*cks them up in ways that being bankrupt, destitute, stuck in a dead end career, apparently does not :rolleyes:...when any real victims are living a nightmare easily comparable with a kidnapping victim.
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 13:16
Sorry, I'll shut up now and go off and do something useful. :o
But that was TERRIBLY useful. :)
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 13:18
To hear from this lecture that the Police now monitor websites and posters incl reviewers means that one must exercise caution and be assured that any appointment is with a genuine independent
It also means that they might start to LEARN something.
so what spooked me this morning and it does take a lot to spook me was the casual assumptions/conclusions of the ordinary lay person after attending a lecture on human trafficking by dept of justice, an mla and a police detective
the reality on the ground is a myriad of individual cases and circumstances but joe public tends to jump on the wagon after a bit of 'education' by respectable institutions -' all escorts are victims of human trafficking qed and I am feeding the demand and prolonging their misery by punting'
now if that were true please mrs mla, please mr policeman go and rescue the poor souls- you will find their contact details on this and several other websites- theres about 300 in dublin to round up and about say 100 in n ireland
its there in front of you phone number etc , in fact adult work lets you map to a post code
easiest bit of detective work in the world
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 15:09
Truth is Kingbee that the majority of people actually think most of the sex industry is made up to sell tabloids...one of my party tricks used be deflecting the attention of kids from Sunday World exposures involving their mothers...by convincing them that only VERY gullable people believe sex happens in massage parlours...it was easy, they were surrounded by group and cultural reinforcement.
AS SOON as someone they perceive to be "in authority" tells them something to the contrary they swallow it whole without any real basis for critical thinking, that's why we need a "counter culture"...
(HEY...IDEA...could we start getting some video up on youtube of our own interviews and documantaries? There MUST be videographers out there, I use know a top notch war correspondant who was invalided out and made a living from porn, there MUST be some 1st rate people out there who can help do this?).
Truth is Kingbee that the majority of people actually think most of the sex industry is made up to sell tabloids...one of my party tricks used be deflecting the attention of kids from Sunday World exposures involving their mothers...by convincing them that only VERY gullable people believe sex happens in massage parlours...it was easy, they were surrounded by group and cultural reinforcement.
AS SOON as someone they perceive to be "in authority" tells them something to the contrary they swallow it whole without any real basis for critical thinking, that's why we need a "counter culture"...
(HEY...IDEA...could we start getting some video up on youtube of our own interviews and documantaries? There MUST be videographers out there, I use know a top notch war correspondant who was invalided out and made a living from porn, there MUST be some 1st rate people out there who can help do this?).
The tabloids poking into the affairs of escorts has always been an issue it, but seems more prevalent at the moment since the viewing of the 'shocking' RTE documentary. These journalists are just like a group of young boys that have found a copy of 'Playboy', seen a woman's 'lady bits' for the first time and have an unhealthy fascination with it, sneaking around trying to push the boundaries to see more and more.
They treat the sex industry as if they are poking an insect with a stick to see what happens next. It's like they are obsessed with seeing the 'ladies of the night', and I would hazard a guess that on a psychological level, are probably indulging their repressed curiosities by masking their guilty thoughts with the shield of 'disgust' and 'outrage', when really they only want to see beyond the borders of approaching them to see what they have to offer :rolleyes:
Look chaps, let's get it out of your system. Either get on the blower in your own time and experience the normal, everyday world of the escort industry by booking an appointment with one of these escorts, or watch this video to see what happens if two adults just happen to consent to sexual intercourse during the time that the client has paid for:
http://www.youporn.com/watch/294706/real-escort-in-action/?from=search_full&pos=1
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 15:55
Samlad, the ONLY thing that shocked me about the RTE documentary is that people actually got PAID for that...I know I have said it before but I could have put together more "convincing" and "conclusive" footage with my handycam while doing the weekend grocery shop.
So, let's seize the bull by the horns and, given the availability of youtube, put our own (PG not XXXrated...but NICE TRY! :rollingeyes:...boys will be boys!) documentary together and upload.
We get to choose how to hide our own faces and voices (an IPHONE will do that properly these days), and use the same kind of format that is used to show mainstream issues before the watershed, because we will be redefining and industry and it's market.
The aim being to reshape public opinion enough to be able to do the *NEXT* documentary open face (not likely to get there, but AIM HIGH...last time around I wanted to change public opinion enough to be safe to broadcast under my own name...and I did it in tribute to Sinead Kelly after her death...that was 1998 and I AM STILL HERE).
Samlad, the ONLY thing that shocked me about the RTE documentary is that people actually got PAID for that...I know I have said it before but I could have put together more "convincing" and "conclusive" footage with my handycam while doing the weekend grocery shop.
So, let's seize the bull by the horns and, given the availability of youtube, put our own (PG not XXXrated...but NICE TRY! :rollingeyes:...boys will be boys!) documentary together and upload.
We get to choose how to hide our own faces and voices (an IPHONE will do that properly these days), and use the same kind of format that is used to show mainstream issues before the watershed, because we will be redefining and industry and it's market.
The aim being to reshape public opinion enough to be able to do the *NEXT* documentary open face (not likely to get there, but AIM HIGH...last time around I wanted to change public opinion enough to be safe to broadcast under my own name...and I did it in tribute to Sinead Kelly after her death...that was 1998 and I AM STILL HERE).
From memory ( the thread was locked and deleted ) Stephanie here came up with similar suggestions and similar enthusiasm. She was shouted down pretty quickly.:confused:
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 18:13
From memory ( the thread was locked and deleted ) Stephanie here came up with similar suggestions and similar enthusiasm. She was shouted down pretty quickly.:confused:
Well, apparently whatever the small, insignificant difference were they must have been the problem, because nobody seems to have any violent objections now (whether they will be volunteering or not later is a different matter).
Lucy Chambers
30-03-12, 19:25
From memory ( the thread was locked and deleted ) Stephanie here came up with similar suggestions and similar enthusiasm. She was shouted down pretty quickly.:confused:
As I remember it, she wasn't shouted down. It was pointed out that the public forum may not have been the best place for discussion of the matter, privacy and anonymity being key to any action taken by independent escorts. The thread was locked and deleted because it turned into a slagging and touting match, and wasnt fit for purpose.
La Belle, if you speak to English Alex I think she has some thoughts on this. I havent had much time to read through it but it is an excellent idea.
EnglishAlex
30-03-12, 19:52
As I remember it, she wasn't shouted down. It was pointed out that the public forum may not have been the best place for discussion of the matter, privacy and anonymity being key to any action taken by independent escorts. The thread was locked and deleted because it turned into a slagging and touting match, and wasnt fit for purpose.
La Belle, if you speak to English Alex I think she has some thoughts on this. I havent had much time to read through it but it is an excellent idea.
Yes Stephanie posted the suggestion in the wrong place. Independent escorts have to do this ourselves. No disrespect to ei but we all know the press jump on anything you do and drag up all kinds of shit that will not help our case at all.
Might I suggest that we stop discussing this here and talk about it in private instead. Some things do not need to be in the public arena until we're ready to put them there.
La belle my love, I know you're trying to help but earlier in the thread Lucy was vague about reasons for moving about etc as clients don't need to know every single detail of our work. I appreciate all that you do but in some instances we don't answer or we're vague as the clients here can be far too nosy.
Also, as we're continually in the news there are people here with alterior motives. This is the Internet and we should be taking people at face value. Too many fingers burned for me to be trusting every tom dick and harry who turns up claiming a sudden interest due to xyz but is far more informed than they make out.
Please everybody, can you think about these things before posting our business everywhere
EnglishAlex
30-03-12, 20:27
Yes Stephanie posted the suggestion in the wrong place. Independent escorts have to do this ourselves. No disrespect to ei but we all know the press jump on anything you do and drag up all kinds of shit that will not help our case at all.
Might I suggest that we stop discussing this here and talk about it in private instead. Some things do not need to be in the public arena until we're ready to put them there.
La belle my love, I know you're trying to help but earlier in the thread Lucy was vague about reasons for moving about etc as clients don't need to know every single detail of our work. I appreciate all that you do but in some instances we don't answer or we're vague as the clients here can be far too nosy.
Also, as we're continually in the news there are people here with alterior motives. This is the Internet and we should not be taking people at face value. Too many fingers burned for me to be trusting every tom dick and harry who turns up claiming a sudden interest due to xyz but is far more informed than they make out.
Please everybody, can you think about these things before posting our business everywhere
It was supposed to say we should not be taking people at face value!
LaBelleThatcher
30-03-12, 21:09
La belle my love, I know you're trying to help but earlier in the thread Lucy was vague about reasons for moving about etc as clients don't need to know every single detail of our work. I appreciate all that you do but in some instances we don't answer or we're vague as the clients here can be far too nosy.
I thought it was more that they were being "too dense" in this instance!
I am so sorry, it's not something I have ever even asked anyone about, I was just "guessing" what I assumed should be obvious common sense...I couldn't even understand why he couldn't see that for himself to be asking.
I hope that all these ambitions come to fruition, and that the independents do come together on the issues which are of concern to them. New media is certainly the way to get your message out, especially if it's not especially appealing to the mainstream media. I support any effort, public or private, and will gladly assist in any way.
EnglishAlex
31-03-12, 10:03
I thought it was more that they were being "too dense" in this instance!
I am so sorry, it's not something I have ever even asked anyone about, I was just "guessing" what I assumed should be obvious common sense...I couldn't even understand why he couldn't see that for himself to be asking.
No worries my sweet. I just think that if some people ask questions that they have no right to. Why should we have to justify moving about? Touring different places? It's none of the clients business why we move around, if they can't work it out for themselves then that's their lookout not ours.
Our job as far as the client goes is to be professional when they make an appoinment, be ready on time and have a great meeting with them. As far as 'why do you all use the same apartments' and 'why do you all move around so much', that's none of their business at all. If they can't guess then I for one wont be telling them exactly why, where and when. Nope. Quite frankly they should be minding their own business.
Peace ;) x
EnglishAlex
31-03-12, 10:05
I hope that all these ambitions come to fruition, and that the independents do come together on the issues which are of concern to them. New media is certainly the way to get your message out, especially if it's not especially appealing to the mainstream media. I support any effort, public or private, and will gladly assist in any way.
You need to back off. None of us know you and not one person can vouch for you either. If we need assistance then we'll ask people who we can TRUST for it.
You need to back off. None of us know you and not one person can vouch for you either. If we need assistance then we'll ask people who we can TRUST for it.
I've no problem with that, and it's what I intend to do. It's not my issue, it's an issue for those who actually are sex workers and I do respect that. I'm not trying to be invasive in any way or intervene upon anyone.
I simply comment on the issues on the public forum, and it's at each individuals discretion as to whether they place any importance upon what I say or not. Please don't take it the wrong way, I understand the position you're coming from and I only mean well, but I understand your reluctance to trust an obvious outsider who has not met anyone yet, and I do accept that within reason.
EnglishAlex
31-03-12, 11:07
I've no problem with that, and it's what I intend to do. It's not my issue, it's an issue for those who actually are sex workers and I do respect that. I'm not trying to be invasive in any way or intervene upon anyone.
I simply comment on the issues on the public forum, and it's at each individuals discretion as to whether they place any importance upon what I say or not. Please don't take it the wrong way, I understand the position you're coming from and I only mean well, but I understand your reluctance to trust an obvious outsider who has not met anyone yet, and I do accept that within reason.
Thank You for your understanding.
It's not that people haven't met you, I have online friends that I trust who I've never met and I'm not likely to meet. The problem is your unusual interest, for someone who's apparently new to this there's something about you. I trust my instincts 100% and they're going crazy where you're concerned. Maybe I'm wrong, I like being wrong about these things but only time will tell.
Nothing personal Banjaxed, I have to rely on my instincts as I'm sure you can appreciate.
Thank You for your understanding.
It's not that people haven't met you, I have online friends that I trust who I've never met and I'm not likely to meet. The problem is your unusual interest, for someone who's apparently new to this there's something about you. I trust my instincts 100% and they're going crazy where you're concerned. Maybe I'm wrong, I like being wrong about these things but only time will tell.
Nothing personal Banjaxed, I have to rely on my instincts as I'm sure you can appreciate.
No, I'm fine with that, I know with everything that is going on recently people don't know who to trust, and you're right to hold that view. If I was in you situation, I'd probably be the exact same.
I'm sorry if it makes you uneasy, I'm just constantly questioning things and tend to throw myself into things - the type of person you end up bumping into everywhere - volunteering with FLAC, at the march for the Save X Hospital campaign, at public meetings on any issue from water charges to European Union referenda. Initially I came here as a client, but I'm not in a position to actually book someone at the moment though my intentions in that regard are quite clear and so the next logical step was to discuss the issues with people as well as engaging in the usual forum banter. I appreciate it makes people nervous, which isn't my intention, and so I will respect your position and hold off from any more adverse discussion until I've met one of the girls.
Again, I understand your position and appreciate your directness. The one thing I can offer as any consolation is that Eileen (LaBelle) has my details, and anyone who knows and trusts her here can maybe receive some sort of vouch from her that might at least partially lay some doubts to rest. If there is any way I can help, I'm happy to come forward but trust is an issue and I'll respect that.
LaBelleThatcher
31-03-12, 12:14
It's none of the clients business why we move around, if they can't work it out for themselves then that's their lookout not ours.
That's me...co-dependent to the end...always trying to help and support the pathologically bewildered...and it doesn't REALLY help them you know. As long as I keep that up how will they EVER master simple logic and reasoning for themselves at all? ;)
Well, apparently whatever the small, insignificant difference were they must have been the problem, because nobody seems to have any violent objections now (whether they will be volunteering or not later is a different matter).
You are definitely long out of the business Eileen, nobody fucks with you now !! ;)