Why is this illegal [Archive] - Escort Ireland Community

LaBelleThatcher

20-03-12, 21:29

Martin41

20-03-12, 21:48

What a completely stupid misinformed idiot journalist.
Bloody lunatic/ religious/ assholes with nothing better to do than completely misrepresent facts

Banjaxed

20-03-12, 21:55

I don't think it's "illegal", as in criminal per se.

The article is simply hearsay ("claims") as opposed to actually stating that any action other than a search (on the basis of powers conferred from existing human trafficking legislation) was carried out. As for the hotel, the guest is engaged in a contractual relationship with the hotel and I'm sure that they can end that relationship at any time should they wish to to breach of some terms which were either express or implied in the booking (i.e.: immoral activity).

I'll have to double check what the situation is down here in relation to searching hotel rooms, I'd imagine a search warrant would still be required and came across a similar scenario recently but can't for the life of me remember the outcome.

kingbee

20-03-12, 22:18

LaBelleThatcher

20-03-12, 22:29

What a completely stupid misinformed idiot journalist.
Bloody lunatic/ religious/ assholes with nothing better to do than completely misrepresent facts

Don't hold back on account of us ladies Martin - say what you really think ;)

I wonder...is there any chance at all that the lady in question is around?

If so, would she have the courage to speak out and state what her position is? Even if she had to create a new ID to do it?

Or give a statement to E-I staff to preserve her privacy? Last time I checked the best antidote to a load of BS was the truth.

Banjaxed

20-03-12, 22:31

so its more of an embarrasment simply for escort and client - he has done nothing wrong(visiting a hotel guest) she 'immoral activity' - i guess this covers all those married men having affairs with their mistresses!!! bonking away on thir dirty weekends

sex happens in a hotel

running a business from your room - well how many sales reps entertain customers in hotels too

its all a bit grey but i guess the hotel reserves the right to chuck anyone out- escorts, rock stars, drunk violent people etc

cant see any criminal angle for a truly genuine single independent

Exactly, I don't believe there is or was any criminal liability in this case, and if it were to be replayed down here I don't think it would do so either. What this sounds to me is the type of coverage all local newspapers do every once in a while to stir up feelings about some dark underworld on people's doorsteps while usually the opposite is true.

While you're on the hotel property, you're basically a visitor, you've permission to be there within the terms of the booking (read contract) and there's certain terms either expressly wrote in the small print or implied. So they reserve the right to refuse business or to terminate your visitor status, at which point you become a trespasser. It's more from an civil liability perspective at that point and into duty of care, etc., etc. under Occupiers Liability.

So to me, it sounds like another incident of wasted and misdirected police resources like the ones which the London Metropolitan Police and their elite SCD9 (trafficking unit) are being condemned for (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/19/met-police-sex-trafficking-investigations-criticised?newsfeed=true)by an expert group set up by their own Mayor, due to their random raiding of escorts and some brothels due to baseless "suspicions" of human trafficking.

And for every waste or misdirection of scarce resources, you can be sure someone else is getting away free.

Morpheus

21-03-12, 00:19

as someone who has visited single independent escorts in Hotels (albeit Belfast) I dont understand why such a fuss - perhaps because its such a small town etc but as far as I understand Escorts are perfectly entitled to rent rooms in Hotels!!

http://www.midulstermail.co.uk/news/local/travelling-prostitutes-have-rented-rooms-in-cookstown-1-3626427

:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::an gryfire:

Forget about legality....did the reporter even read his own article?????????:headache:

The report clearly states that the escort was ENGLISH. Poor girl was obviously evicted or asked to leave -which goes to show the unfairness of the system, given that escorts are treated with disdain, but I digress.....

The rest of the article jumps straight to trafficked women linking this lady with trafficked women!!!!!

Hello!!!!!!! The escort was English!!!!! She doesn't need to be trafficked into Northern Ireland which last time I checked was still part of Britain!!!!!

It just goes to show how the media is determined to equate escorts with trafficked women!!!!!!!! I am beyond mad!!!!!:mad:

ladiesman217

21-03-12, 00:27

Well there's some more fine evidence (like we really needed more) that clearly shows that neanderthals are still alive and well..... It really amazes me how morons like this imbecile immediately assume all escorts are trafficked/forced/etc. The same thinking that stops them from realizing that probably the best way to cut trafficking is to legalise and regulate the entire industry, and in doing so make it safer for those who work in the industry. Course said people actually believe that they can permanently eliminate the oldest profession in the world. Pfft no wonder the world's economy (ours especially) is fucked.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 00:47

The rest of the article jumps straight to trafficked women linking this lady with trafficked women!!!!!

Ruhama put it on their Facebook page with this comment:

Detective Superintendent Philip Marshall at a Mid Ulster evnt last week said that the issue of human trafficking and prostitution was very much present in County Tyrone. “We have carried out investigations into human trafficking and prostitution in Co Tyrone within the last twelve to eighteen months. Recently we have carried out searches in a number of locations across Northern Ireland, including Dungannon and Cookstown.” He added: “Prostitution is here in County Tyrone. It is organised crime and huge criminal benefit is being made from this in Tyrone.”

Now that is the truth bent a long way past breaking point, at least by implication.

If you have to bend the truth like that to make your point then YOU HAVE NO POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE. :angryfire::angryfire:

I am seriously veering towards the belief that the whole "trafficking" issue is just BS and hot air to further an agenda, and TO HELL with how many people that agenda harms. If the facts don't fit, pretend they did fit anyway and chance it most people will never check.

Prickly

21-03-12, 04:26

I've come to the conclusion that pressure groups are using trafficking as a means to demonise and shock people into turning against prostitution. Concerned that not everybody shares their personal moral outrage they take what is a very serious issue and try to convince all and sundry that all escorts are trafficked.
Of course the problem is people get used to it and eventually stop caring. And who suffers? Those women who are genuinely trafficked. Legalise independent escorts. Give them boundaries within which to operate and free up the police, etc to investigate real trafficking.
People who try to impose their religous or moral beliefs on others should not be allowed to get involved in making legislation.
I believe trafficking does happen - but the witch burning moral crusaders aren't going to stop it by their methods.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 10:27

I found something interesting out today.

Google are slowly compiling a news archive going all the way back to 1992...doesn't seem complete yet, as in, only certain time periods are available for certain phrases, but the briefest of glances found me these two little gems:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0505/trafficking.html
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/nuns-launch-ad-highlight-sex-trafficking

In the first they are arguing with garda claims I mention the second more because of this little gem that made my blood run cold:

''We also legislate for things we may not be able to police a lot but the legislation is a means of educating people that its wrong. They are buying a commodity that is part of a criminal underworld, up until now they were acting with impunity.''

The "commodity" referred to? Ladies, that would be *YOU*. :angryfire:

...and that is no red top twisting words, it is "The Irish Catholic".

doodlebug

21-03-12, 11:46

I found something interesting out today.

Google are slowly compiling a news archive going all the way back to 1992...doesn't seem complete yet, as in, only certain time periods are available for certain phrases, but the briefest of glances found me these two little gems:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0505/trafficking.html
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/nuns-launch-ad-highlight-sex-trafficking

In the first they are arguing with garda claims I mention the second more because of this little gem that made my blood run cold:

The "commodity" referred to? Ladies, that would be *YOU*. :angryfire:

...and that is no red top twisting words, it is "The Irish Catholic".

Telling indeed, an attitude that harks back to the "good old days' of the Magdalene laundries and clerical abuse!!!!

Anna23

21-03-12, 11:53

:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::an gryfire:

Forget about legality....did the reporter even read his own article?????????:headache:

The report clearly states that the escort was ENGLISH. Poor girl was obviously evicted or asked to leave -which goes to show the unfairness of the system, given that escorts are treated with disdain, but I digress.....

The rest of the article jumps straight to trafficked women linking this lady with trafficked women!!!!!

Hello!!!!!!! The escort was English!!!!! She doesn't need to be trafficked into Northern Ireland which last time I checked was still part of Britain!!!!!

It just goes to show how the media is determined to equate escorts with trafficked women!!!!!!!! I am beyond mad!!!!!:mad:

Yeah, that's what I found most hilarious about it. A BRITISH woman checking HERSELF into a BRITISH hotel and they speak about trafficking.
I'm becoming bit lost from all this propaganda re what trafficking does exactly mean. Doesnt it something to do with crossing borders ilegally and being forced to work and exploited for profit?

BTw paying tax makes me feel forced to work and severely exploited. We should do smthg about that.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 12:25

Yeah, that's what I found most hilarious about it. A BRITISH woman checking HERSELF into a BRITISH hotel and they speak about trafficking.

...the penny just dropped here on that! :o

I'm becoming bit lost from all this propaganda re what trafficking does exactly mean. Doesnt it something to do with crossing borders ilegally and being forced to work and exploited for profit?

Banjaxed dug out the legal definition in the 2008 act:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0008/sec0001.html#sec1

“trafficks” means, in relation to a person (including a child)—

(a) procures, recruits, transports or harbours the person, or
(i) transfers the person to,
(ii) places the person in the custody, care or charge, or under the control, of, or
(iii) otherwise delivers the person to,
another person,
(b) causes a person to enter or leave the State or to travel within the State,
(c) takes custody of a person or takes a person—
(i) into one’s care or charge, or
(ii) under one’s control,
or

(d) provides the person with accommodation or employment.

Now THAT is SCARY broad...technically, if one of ye touring ladies is stuck and asks me to come and get you from the airport, I will be trafficking.

But, better yet...it would appeared (unless m'learned friend, Banjaxed has anything to say to the contrary?) that the Law has even neglected to specify that the person in question be a foreign national or resident :eek::o:eek:...

BTw paying tax makes me feel forced to work and severely exploited. We should do smthg about that.

True, always hated "the state as pimp" and had to be physically restrained to prevent me storming into the Police in Germany and laying a formal complaint of "living off immoral earnings" (still on statute there at the time) against the German Government for it...

BUT...

If you restrict that to the sex industry it will only cause bitterness and resentment in the wider society...so better campaign for everyone else too. :D

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 12:29

Telling indeed, an attitude that harks back to the "good old days' of the Magdalene laundries and clerical abuse!!!!

I just could not BELIEVE that wording...and while I am sure it wasn't deliberate, the type of language we automatically choose speaks volumes about how we really feel...

kingbee

21-03-12, 13:37

based on the definition of trafficking above ironically a girl who arranges and stays in a hotel is the safest option!!!

are landlords traffickers? even if unwittingly

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 14:11

based on the definition of trafficking above ironically a girl who arranges and stays in a hotel is the safest option!!!

are landlords traffickers? even if unwittingly

Based on the above definition as soon as ANYONE checks into a hotel the hotel can be accused of "trafficking" as far as I can see.

It is the kind of legislation that can be used to harass just about anyone, but in terms of conviction for real, serious abuses a half decent barrister could get a fleet of slaveships under full sail out through it.

"Unwittingly" being one of the keys to the gates, because, of course "mens rea" of "ill intent" is the greater part of criminal law.

This gets even worse later, as the consent of the trafficked person is considered no defence:

4.— (1) A person (in this section referred to as the “trafficker”) who trafficks another person (in this section referred to as the “trafficked person”), other than a child or a person to whom subsection (3) applies, for the purposes of the exploitation of the trafficked person shall be guilty of an offence if, in or for the purpose of trafficking the trafficked person, the trafficker—

(a) coerced, threatened, abducted or otherwise used force against the trafficked person,

(b) deceived or committed a fraud against the trafficked person,

(c) abused his or her authority or took advantage of the vulnerability of the trafficked person to such extent as to cause the trafficked person to have had no real and acceptable alternative but to submit to being trafficked,

(d) coerced, threatened or otherwise used force against any person in whose care or charge, or under whose control, the trafficked person was for the time being, in order to compel that person to permit the trafficker to traffick the trafficked person, or

(e) made any payment to, or conferred any right, interest or other benefit on, any person in whose care or charge, or under whose control, the trafficked person was for the time being, in exchange for that person permitting the trafficker to traffick the trafficked person.

(2) In proceedings for an offence under this section it shall not be a defence for the defendant to show that the person in respect of whom the offence was committed consented to the commission of any of the acts of which the offence consists.

So, it would seem that your your awareness of consent is could be irrelevant - you would be nicked anyway. Beyond that, ridiculously, the definitions are so broad as to make it impossible to define "unwitting" in any context, asa result, I think a landlord could be deemed guilty of trafficking, through harbouring, just about anyone who isn't a squatter.

It is insanely worded legislation and the more you try to apply it the more insane it looks.

carlos marvado

21-03-12, 14:48

I trust that the definition of "trafficks" is a bit tighter than the below quoted piece from the 2008 Act (in bold). If it is not qualified any further, than quite a large number of people are guilty:

Originally Posted by S.1, CL(Human Trafficking) Act 2008

“trafficks” means, in relation to a person (including a child)—

(a) procures, recruits, transports or harbours the person, or

All employers, recruitment agencies, transport companies, taxis, hotels, guesthouses, B&B owners, landlords and guest families are guilty.

(i) transfers the person to,

transport companies, taxi drivers, the prison service etc. are guilty.

(ii) places the person in the custody, care or charge, or under the control, of, or

The judiciary, the gardai, the prison service, the HSE are all guilty.

(iii) otherwise delivers the person to,
another person,

Again all the transport companies and taxi drivers, and also those who give lifts are guilty.

(b) causes a person to enter or leave the State or to travel within the State,

Any employer who requires of their staff that they travel either within Ireland or abroad on business is guilty.

(c) takes custody of a person or takes a person—
(i) into one’s care or charge, or
(ii) under one’s control,
or

That the judiciary, gardai, prison service, HSE f**ked again. Boarding schools might also be up shits creek here, as would foster parents and adoptive parents.

(d) provides the person with accommodation or employment.

This has been dealth with before and is just getting repetitive at this stage.

In conclusion, I can draw two possible conclusions from the above. Firstly, either somebody has left out key phrases such as "for the purposes of forced prostitution" or "for the purposes of forced labour" and words such as "coercion", "false prentences" etc, etc, etc. Alternatively, this is an ingenious scheme to solve the state's financial problems by criminalising vast sections of the population and screwing them with a new "criminal tax", while at the same time solving the unemployment problem by putting 450,000 people (give or take a few thousand behind bars).

Meanwhile thousands will be forced under the threat of destitution to embark on a life of prostituting themselves in order to make ends meet. If the English are known as a nation of shopkeepers, we'll soon be known as a nation of traffickers and prostitutes. The saints and scholars must have all emigrated it would seem.

But don't be depressed my friends, in 2016 we will get to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the event that set this whole wonderful train of events in motion. I can't f**king wait for the reenactment of P.H. Pearse reading the proclamation from in front of the G.P.O.:

"Irish traffickers and Irish prostitutes:

In the name of Sodom and Gomorrah and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of debauchery, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her genitalia and gags for a good shagging........." :D

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 15:34

I trust that the definition of "trafficks" is a bit tighter than the below quoted piece from the 2008 Act (in bold). If it is not qualified any further, than quite a large number of people are guilty:

Banjaxed and I have gone over it, and we can't find any further qualification (I only realised this morning that it doesn't even seem to specify "foreign national" )

In conclusion, I can draw two possible conclusions from the above. Firstly, either somebody has left out key phrases such as "for the purposes of forced prostitution" or "for the purposes of forced labour" and words such as "coercion", "false prentences" etc, etc, etc. Alternatively, this is an ingenious scheme to solve the state's financial problems by criminalising vast sections of the population and screwing them with a new "criminal tax", while at the same time solving the unemployment problem by putting 450,000 people (give or take a few thousand behind bars).

On the surface that would seem a viable explanation, except, why so many expensive prison sentences when we could have lucrative fines instead?

Meanwhile thousands will be forced under the threat of destitution to embark on a life of prostituting themselves in order to make ends meet. If the English are known as a nation of shopkeepers, we'll soon be known as a nation of traffickers and prostitutes. The saints and scholars must have all emigrated it would seem.

Ah but at least they will have to go abroad to do that...because even without the Swedish model, nobody will be able to afford to pay them.

But don't be depressed my friends, in 2016 we will get to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the event that set this whole wonderful train of events in motion. I can't f**king wait for the reenactment of P.H. Pearse reading the proclamation from in front of the G.P.O.:

"Irish traffickers and Irish prostitutes:

In the name of Sodom and Gomorrah and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of debauchery, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her genitalia and gags for a good shagging........." :D

:D:D:D

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 18:10

Trafficking doesn't have to take place outside the country, even RTE's recent Prime Time hatchet job noted that trafficking includes the transport of people within the State.

The Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 is simply the transposition of an international protocol into domestic law, so it's quite possible that the expansive terminology and definitions have little to do with the draftsmen in Leinster House but more with the people who composed the international protocol, usually a wishy-washy political instrument to push an agenda.

There seems to be a dearth of case law involving the Act at present, as much of those who are alleged to have been found involved in human trafficking in the South are charged under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993, usually with offences ranging from brothel keeping to organising or profiting from prostitution, as opposed to any specific trafficking offence.

In my reading of the Act I haven't saw anything which limits the defintion too much. The issue of mens rea will arise, as with all criminal offences, but that can be Intent, or more worringly Recklessness. However knowledge and belief does play a significant part in the subjective nature of Irish criminal law, so it's likely that a court would require that in order to prevent an injustice.

The "knowledge and belief" is currently only contained in s.4(4) of the Act, which deals with a punter who importunes an trafficked person for the purposes of sex, but is is explicitly confined to that section.

Anna23

21-03-12, 18:58

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 19:11

Well, if that is the definition of trafficking, then there is bit more mess in the law to clean up then I thought. Lets scrape the whole system and start fresh.

And yes, I was speaking in general about work when I said that existence of the taxman makes me feel forced to work more and exploited as escorting isn't my only job.

If there were more people thinking like me, we could just all at once refuse paying tax and stop voting and the system would colapse and something more meaningfull and sustainable could be built. But people are so fucking blind and stupid and in fact happy with the way it is.

Well, as a wise lecturer once put it to me, the problems inherent in the system are the same ones that give us (future graduates) a job. So in effect, those that call for change are like turkeys who vote for Christmas, in certain respects, especially those who want to close loopholes.

Anna23

21-03-12, 19:41

Well, as a wise lecturer once put it to me, the problems inherent in the system are the same ones that give us (future graduates) a job. So in effect, those that call for change are like turkeys who vote for Christmas, in certain respects, especially those who want to close loopholes.

...said someone who can think only within the given consensus. Where are all the people who can think outside the box?

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 19:52

...said someone who can think only within the given consensus. Where are all the people who can think outside the box?

God only knows, but most people can only think inside the box and from my experience, that's all the whole area of academia does to you, places you ever deeper within your chosen box.

I still retain some idealism, but as Eileen will know from my discussions with her, in the last couple of years it's slowly being replaced with a not so nice tasting cynicism as the majority seem to be unwilling to stand up.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 20:02

In my reading of the Act I haven't saw anything which limits the defintion too much. The issue of mens rea will arise, as with all criminal offences, but that can be Intent, or more worringly Recklessness. However knowledge and belief does play a significant part in the subjective nature of Irish criminal law, so it's likely that a court would require that in order to prevent an injustice.

The "knowledge and belief" is currently only contained in s.4(4) of the Act, which deals with a punter who importunes an trafficked person for the purposes of sex, but is is explicitly confined to that section.

But mens rea and knowledge and belief of what offence? Because I think the current act has everything apart from hiding in a hole in the ground refusing to come out covered...

:o

Anna23

21-03-12, 20:04

God only knows, but most people can only think inside the box and from my experience, that's all the whole area of academia does to you, places you ever deeper within your chosen box.

Well, that is what the current school system serves for. I prefer self education.

I still retain some idealism, but as Eileen will know from my discussions with her, in the last couple of years it's slowly being replaced with a not so nice tasting cynicism as the majority seem to be unwilling to stand up.

Cynics are optimists as they believe that no matter how bad things are, they could always be better.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 20:29

If there were more people thinking like me, we could just all at once refuse paying tax and stop voting and the system would colapse and something more meaningfull and sustainable could be built. But people are so fucking blind and stupid and in fact happy with the way it is.

I still retain some idealism, but as Eileen will know from my discussions with her, in the last couple of years it's slowly being replaced with a not so nice tasting cynicism as the majority seem to be unwilling to stand up.

I try to tell myself, truly I do, that it is all my nasty, dirty cynical imagination...and then something else rises up and belts me in the forehead...

JUST LOOK at what Pat dug out this afternoon...

Honestly, when, in the late 90s, I adopted the meme:
"If your problem does not fit our available solutions, take a number and one that does will be allocated to you in due course" I genuinely thought it was just a figure of speech...

...apparently not :(

...and you know the worst part?

Even if the system did collapse, what was put in it's place would likely be as bad. It usually is.

midnightcaller

21-03-12, 21:22

Lets scrape the whole system and start fresh.

And yes, I was speaking in general about work when I said that existence of the taxman makes me feel forced to work more and exploited as escorting isn't my only job.

If there were more people thinking like me, we could just all at once refuse paying tax and stop voting and the system would colapse and something more meaningfull and sustainable could be built. But people are so fucking blind and stupid and in fact happy with the way it is.

Look Up "The Venus Project"

Down with the system as it is now, we need to much and have to much.We can live of the earth and don't need fosil fuels, Technology is the key.

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 21:26

But mens rea and knowledge and belief of what offence? Because I think the current act has everything apart from hiding in a hole in the ground refusing to come out covered...

:o

But that's the problem, it has so much covered that it seems to be difficult to serious convictions. So far I think there have only bee two cases, which weren't reported, and they ended with suspended sentences which is never a good sign.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 21:43

But that's the problem, it has so much covered that it seems to be difficult to serious convictions. So far I think there have only bee two cases, which weren't reported, and they ended with suspended sentences which is never a good sign.

I know...how can the guards investigate and charge without a clearer definition than that?

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 21:48

I know...how can the guards investigate and charge without a clearer definition than that?
In Sweden I read that they are working on changing their existing trafficking legislation because they only seem to have convicted about 10 people in the number of years it's existed. Complicated legislation prevents prosecution, and no prosecuting counsel is going to go all out on something that could drop on it's face.

So, as is pointed out in one article from 2011, the number of reports and, most importantly, convictions seems to be at odds with Ruhama and ICI figures. Their answer only seems to be "well it's very hard to detect" :confused:

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 22:17

In Sweden I read that they are working on changing their existing trafficking legislation because they only seem to have convicted about 10 people in the number of years it's existed. Complicated legislation prevents prosecution, and no prosecuting counsel is going to go all out on something that could drop on it's face.

So, as is pointed out in one article from 2011, the number of reports and, most importantly, convictions seems to be at odds with Ruhama and ICI figures. Their answer only seems to be "well it's very hard to detect" :confused:

It makes me so angry...

I am *NOT* someone who doesn't care about real abuse and real victims of coercion...I have put my own time, money and safety down rescuing real victims...who couldn't be dragged near Ruhama in chains BTW...not that I would do that to anyone...

But you will never save the real victims with unscrupulous propaganda aimed at whipping up a witchhunt in the opposite direction, for a hypocritical, self serving agenda wrapped up in a callous, irrational, fad ideology everyone will be embarassed about in 10 years time.

:hitwithrock:

Anna23

21-03-12, 22:29

I try to tell myself, truly I do, that it is all my nasty, dirty cynical imagination...and then something else rises up and belts me in the forehead...

JUST LOOK at what Pat dug out this afternoon...

Honestly, when, in the late 90s, I adopted the meme:
"If your problem does not fit our available solutions, take a number and one that does will be allocated to you in due course" I genuinely thought it was just a figure of speech...

...apparently not :(

...and you know the worst part?

Even if the system did collapse, what was put in it's place would likely be as bad. It usually is.

...thats why i believe it is non-sense when people speak of chalenging one system and replacing it with another one. It will end up in a same way no matter what because same types of people will be looking to lead and as we all know, humans didnt evolve that much since the time of the cave man. We are still ruled by the same emotions like animals without reason.

Who needs a system anyway? Only those who cannot think for themselves. We need to empower people. Thats what needs to be done now. And how do you empower people? By loving them, letting them know that it is ok to be who they truly are, that they are worthy just as they are. That will eradicate the neediness, greed, fear and the need for someone else to tell us how to live. And you know where is the best place to start? By yourself. If you are capable of feeling this towards yourself, you will be capable of transmitting it to others and you will be more accepting of who they are and what they do.
Then there will be abundance and happiness for everyone because people want different things. Its not like there isnt enough for all. Then everyone will be able happily do what they were born to do because they wont be forced to work for some silly system and within the confines of it. So far we are bred as cattle by our schoolsystem, we are forced to acept values of the society that have little to do with our own and we give up our whole lives for those false values. It's too late when most people realise this on the death bed.
I say fuck the system. Do more of what you love and start now.

LaBelleThatcher

21-03-12, 23:38

...thats why i believe it is non-sense when people speak of chalenging one system and replacing it with another one. It will end up in a same way no matter what because same types of people will be looking to lead and as we all know, humans didnt evolve that much since the time of the cave man. We are still ruled by the same emotions like animals without reason.

Who needs a system anyway? Only those who cannot think for themselves. We need to empower people. Thats what needs to be done now. And how do you empower people? By loving them, letting them know that it is ok to be who they truly are, that they are worthy just as they are. That will eradicate the neediness, greed, fear and the need for someone else to tell us how to live. And you know where is the best place to start? By yourself. If you are capable of feeling this towards yourself, you will be capable of transmitting it to others and you will be more accepting of who they are and what they do.
Then there will be abundance and happiness for everyone because people want different things. Its not like there isnt enough for all. Then everyone will be able happily do what they were born to do because they wont be forced to work for some silly system and within the confines of it. So far we are bred as cattle by our schoolsystem, we are forced to acept values of the society that have little to do with our own and we give up our whole lives for those false values. It's too late when most people realise this on the death bed.
I say fuck the system. Do more of what you love and start now.

Ana, there are times I wish we could appoint you as god in place of the jerk I am told we are stuck with...because if you had the power it WOULD work that way... :)

Banjaxed

21-03-12, 23:40

Ana, when sometimes I wish we could appoint you as god in place of the jerk I am told we are stuck with...because if you had the power it WOULD work that way... :)

I rather like the system to be honest, if only because I've spent ages trying to figure it out.

Anna23

22-03-12, 09:08

Ana, there are times I wish we could appoint you as god in place of the jerk I am told we are stuck with...because if you had the power it WOULD work that way... :)

God is inside every one of us. We really just need to start from ourselves. Thats all that is needed.

Anna23

22-03-12, 09:11

I rather like the system to be honest, if only because I've spent ages trying to figure it out.

People like you are the ones preventing any positive change. The truth is that most people do happily accept systems otherwise we wouldnt be in this shit now.
I don't blame them. I do also prefer false sense of the familiar security over freedom (sometimes).

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 09:33

People like you are the ones preventing any positive change. The truth is that most people do happily accept systems otherwise we wouldnt be in this shit now.
I don't blame them. I do also prefer false sense of the familiar security over freedom (sometimes).

I imagine like all people who start off looking for some change, I'll eventually buy into the system and become a devout guardian of it. As we were always told, if you don't want to be part of society subject to the rule of law, taxation and public order than you can always go off and do something else, but "where?" is the unanswered question.

Anna23

22-03-12, 10:18

Skeletor

22-03-12, 11:28

ksteve

22-03-12, 13:42

UKHeather

22-03-12, 13:47

Whilst a hotel may turn a blind eye to the odd escort staying with them, I think you will find that no hotel wants it known that it is happy to accomodate escorts and their clients.It's not good for the long term business and reputation of the hotel. There was a hotel in Dublin which until fairly recently was a mecca for escorts, so much so that even clients stopped going there !! :D
My hotel bill for one week in Dublin was often around the 1100 Euro mark. For 3 years, they welcomed me with a smile and a room upgrade.

ksteve

22-03-12, 13:59

My hotel bill for one week in Dublin was often around the 1100 Euro mark. For 3 years, they welcomed me with a smile and a room upgrade.

Indeed and I know of other excellent examples of this. But try sitting down with the management and negotiating a rate on behalf of all touring E-I escorts to Dublin and the smile mightn't be so wide !! ;)

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 14:32

People like you are the ones preventing any positive change. The truth is that most people do happily accept systems otherwise we wouldnt be in this shit now.
I don't blame them. I do also prefer false sense of the familiar security over freedom (sometimes).

That is brutally honest insight Anna...for me it it not so much that I won't settle down, sell out and become part of it as that I *CAN'T* for some weird reason I lack the ability to turn a blind eye.

Whenever something is very wrong all I can see are the people who will be harmed by it...and I njust cannot go along...even though I know there is no end to it, whatever you do.

Maybe that is because I would not know what a sense of security felt like anyway, even if it was delivered to my door clearly labelled?

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 14:38

I imagine like all people who start off looking for some change, I'll eventually buy into the system and become a devout guardian of it. As we were always told, if you don't want to be part of society subject to the rule of law, taxation and public order than you can always go off and do something else, but "where?" is the unanswered question.

...only within yourself or within your dreams I suppose?

More scary honesty...

But there is always a way tip tip the balance ever so slightly so the world is just a tiny bit better...you just can't ever fix the whole mess of vicious circles within vicious circles...

Most of the time the people who abuse the system at terrible cost to others are just as trapped as their victims...because the minute they stop abusing the system they will become a victim too.

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 14:41

Indeed and I know of other excellent examples of this. But try sitting down with the management and negotiating a rate on behalf of all touring E-I escorts to Dublin and the smile mightn't be so wide !! ;)

Just because they would be breaking the law if they did that.

No other real reason, though, of course, there bis always one...absent cop on, who gets the bright idea that nobody will suspect a touring escort in a small family orientated hotel...:rolleyes:

Cassandra

22-03-12, 16:42

What a completely stupid misinformed idiot journalist.
Bloody lunatic/ religious/ ######## with nothing better to do than completely misrepresent facts

Here Here!
And if I may hijack your sentiment refer not to this incident alone but all mainstream journalists and say , tis for to be sure (lol) that these jack-a-napes know the deal but hey you know what? Sex is bad, so are women and so are the men who see e'm. I mean gooddamn the woman not afraid to take her sexuality-in full drive-by the horns and make profit by it. Nevermind Men may make use of their strength,which is their gift yet us girls can't make use a what our very own mama gave us? Goddam it lads. this pisses me off.

doodlebug

22-03-12, 16:51

Here Here!
And if I may hijack your sentiment refer not to this incident alone but all mainstream journalists and say , tis for to be sure (lol) that these jack-a-napes know the deal but hey you know what? Sex is bad, so are women and so are the men who see e'm. I mean gooddamn the woman not afraid to take her sexuality-in full drive-by the horns and make profit by it. Nevermind Men may make use of their strength,which is their gift yet us girls can't make use a what our very own mama gave us? Goddam it lads. this pisses me off.

I think, that both you, run the risk of shooting the messenger. Journalism of itself is not bad, and indeed there are some very good journalists out there. I do agree it rarely if ever gives a balanced view on the sex industry, however, I would argue that journalists merely serve up what the larger sections of society and their employers want....in this case it is societys' shock at women empowering themselves through sex!!!!!

To hijack the "reduce the demand" theory, if society did not read and want to read what mainstream journalists write then newspapers and other media would cease to exist.

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 16:53

Here Here!
And if I may hijack your sentiment refer not to this incident alone but all mainstream journalists and say , tis for to be sure (lol) that these jack-a-napes know the deal but hey you know what? Sex is bad, so are women and so are the men who see e'm. I mean gooddamn the woman not afraid to take her sexuality-in full drive-by the horns and make profit by it. Nevermind Men may make use of their strength,which is their gift yet us girls can't make use a what our very own mama gave us? Goddam it lads. this pisses me off.

That is a very primitive truth Bailey, guys will always have physical strength we do not, we have sexual power to compensate, that is just fair.

(and besides, see how much use all those muscles and testosterone are if they drive us to put poison in the their tea :P)

ksteve

22-03-12, 18:06

Just because they would be breaking the law if they did that.

No other real reason, though, of course, there bis always one...absent cop on, who gets the bright idea that nobody will suspect a touring escort in a small family orientated hotel...:rolleyes:

Do you think Eileen , if the law permitted management to fill their hotels with prostitutes , that they would jump at the chance ?

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 18:25

Do you think Eileen , if the law permitted management to fill their hotels with prostitutes , that they would jump at the chance ?

Can't speak for Eileen, but I'd definitely know some smaller hotels that would be glad for the custom and it would be a huge jump for them since that's what they tend to get anyway, though I can't say how many are punts or affairs or perhaps even both!

In 2009, there were at least an over supply of 15,000 rooms (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1111/hotels.html) that could not be filled in Irish hotels. Last year a number of ghost hotels are boarded up, and even some of the nicest hotels in the country are gone into receivership. So I think they'd be glad of any custom, provided it attracts the right clientele.

Of course there are some hotels with a name and atmosphere to uphold, and I'd imagine they wouldn't be too pleased with escorts widely frequenting their facilities, but I'd say they are rare.

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 18:46

I think, that both you, run the risk of shooting the messenger. Journalism of itself is not bad, and indeed there are some very good journalists out there. I do agree it rarely if ever gives a balanced view on the sex industry, however, I would argue that journalists merely serve up what the larger sections of society and their employers want....in this case it is societys' shock at women empowering themselves through sex!!!!!

To hijack the "reduce the demand" theory, if society did not read and want to read what mainstream journalists write then newspapers and other media would cease to exist.

Ah, but from another view point, the media shape opinion, there is actually an whole science to doing that (it's not random, or spontaneous at all) to a far greater extent, journalists serve up what their employers want...we need them on board really. Not as hard as it might sound, the sex industry is "filler" material in the media (except for the Sunday World where they use "national and international news" as filler instead)...

...and yes, compared to the '90s (when the mainstream media couldn't get enough of sex worker voices) the media *IS* gagging the sex industry, and it shows.

When you have a problem like that, the first thing you look for is a way to change it. :)

ksteve

22-03-12, 18:48

Can't speak for Eileen, but I'd definitely know some smaller hotels that would be glad for the custom and it would be a huge jump for them since that's what they tend to get anyway, though I can't say how many are punts or affairs or perhaps even both!

In 2009, there were at least an over supply of 15,000 rooms (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1111/hotels.html) that could not be filled in Irish hotels. Last year a number of ghost hotels are boarded up, and even some of the nicest hotels in the country are gone into receivership. So I think they'd be glad of any custom, provided it attracts the right clientele.

Of course there are some hotels with a name and atmosphere to uphold, and I'd imagine they wouldn't be too pleased with escorts widely frequenting their facilities, but I'd say they are rare.

Rare ! Ok, that's an interesting take.

Certainly Irish hotels in general are very anxious to increase room occupancy in their hotels and I remember another poster here thought that legalising prostitution would be great for tourism. :)

I see that the Irish Hotels Federation have appointed a new President,Michael Vaughan ( http://www.ihf.ie/press/documents/documents/120703newpresident.htm ). Maybe he could get the Federation to lend its support to the pro-prostitution campaign ? :p

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 18:48

When you have a problem like that, the first thing you look for is a way to change it. :)

Free appointments for anyone with a NUJ membership card? :confused:

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 18:50

Rare ! Ok, that's an interesting take.

Certainly Irish hotels in general are very anxious to increase room occupancy in their hotels and I remember another poster here thought that legalising prostitution would be great for tourism. :)

I see that the Irish Hotels Federation have appointed a new President,Michael Vaughan ( http://www.ihf.ie/press/documents/documents/120703newpresident.htm ). Maybe he could get the Federation to lend its support to the pro-prostitution campaign ? :p

Ah now, you know what I mean. I mean they're willing in a "nod and wink" way, if it's a public declaration you want in support for the campaign then you'll be waiting!

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 18:52

Do you think Eileen , if the law permitted management to fill their hotels with prostitutes , that they would jump at the chance ?

Unless they SPECIFICALLY target a family market I reckon there are a lot of hotels who would be DELIGHTED if it was legal.

While it is not it is not as simple as a moral issue, there all kinds of indemnity issues - you name it...

Take that away and you have a market of reliable, regular, female guests...who are often on fairly predictable schedules that can be booked well in advance - they are a hotelier's dream come true. :D

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 18:55

Free appointments for anyone with a NUJ membership card? :confused:

I was thinking more along the lines of "happy, satisfied media baron" photos from existing appointments...

Or would that be - WRONG? :o:confused::o

ksteve

22-03-12, 18:57

Ah now, you know what I mean. I mean they're willing in a "nod and wink" way, if it's a public declaration you want in support for the campaign then you'll be waiting!

I'm sure Mr.Vaughan could take the Minister aside over a couple of pints and well-- you know like, off the record-- give him the old ' nod and wink ' like ! ;);)

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 18:59

I was thinking more along the lines of "happy, satisfied media baron" photos from existing appointments...

Or would that be - WRONG? :o:confused::o

I'm sure Mr.Vaughan could take the Minister aside over a couple of pints and well-- you know like, off the record-- give him the old ' nod and wink ' like ! ;);)

See Eileen's idea above.

Just find out who the Minister frequents in his spare time. I know if I was pulling down €120,000+ unlimited unvouched expenses where I'd be.

ksteve

22-03-12, 19:03

Free appointments for anyone with a NUJ membership card? :confused:

You're ahead of the posse here BJ !! Not fair on the girls though to have to foot the whole bill so to speak. Target a few influential journos and the lads here can contribute to the fees. No overnights mind, just a short dinner date,maybe the early bird menu ! We're all in this together, right ?

ksteve

22-03-12, 19:08

See Eileen's idea above.

Just find out who the Minister frequents in his spare time. I know if I was pulling down €120,000+ unlimited unvouched expenses where I'd be.

What about the whole 'discretion ' ethics.;) Is this not a bit unprofessional like-- below the belt . No, surely there would be no support for threatenning to 'out ' a fellow punter ? :D

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 19:23

What about the whole 'discretion ' ethics.;) Is this not a bit unprofessional like-- below the belt . No, surely there would be no support for threatenning to 'out ' a fellow punter ? :D

Well I can tell you now, you have more chance of getting the Pope to break the seal of confessional on a live satellite TV link than getting any self respecting hooker to out a client (the people who kiss and tell in the tabloids are called "WAGS" whatever they say...they are NOT real hookers, in fact, I wouldn't swear they were even people).

ksteve

22-03-12, 19:35

Banjaxed

22-03-12, 19:52

Well I can tell you now, you have more chance of getting the Pope to break the seal of confessional on a live satellite TV link than getting any self respecting hooker to out a client (the people who kiss and tell in the tabloids are called "WAGS" whatever they say...they are NOT real hookers, in fact, I wouldn't swear they were even people).

Jaysus they wouldn't want to if they knew what's good for them :D Certainly repeat business would be the last of their worries. Discretion is a must, it's not optional. I'd expect the same level of discretion from someone else as I'd show to them, otherwise there would be huge problems for everyone.

Edit: Actually this sounds like a whole other thread idea: what would you do if you were outed? At present I'd actually probably admit it and I enjoyed every millisecond of you, and **** you very much for asking.

LaBelleThatcher

22-03-12, 20:21

Gawd, they sound really awful, whatever they are ?:eek:

Just PRAY you never come across Posh Spice in a dark alley on night and find out FOR SURE. :(

carlos marvado

22-03-12, 21:19

Just PRAY you never come across Posh Spice in a dark alley on night and find out FOR SURE. :(

Is she a bit of a goer then.........nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I

:D

UKHeather

22-03-12, 21:28

Indeed and I know of other excellent examples of this. But try sitting down with the management and negotiating a rate on behalf of all touring E-I escorts to Dublin and the smile mightn't be so wide !! ;)
That's not a scenario which was being discussed is it?
Hotels where anybody stays regularly are open to giving a corporate rate.
Some hotels are escort friendly inasmuch as if you are quiet and discreet they leave you to it. Unfortunately, some ladies like to swan around and make their activities a little too obvious.

Curvaceous Kate

22-03-12, 23:35

Do you think Eileen , if the law permitted management to fill their hotels with prostitutes , that they would jump at the chance ?

They shouldn't have to be worrying about it. Their priority should be towards running their hotel well and making a profit. As long as the person using the room is respectful and does not annoy their immediate neighbours by keeping them up all night there is no problem. In fact who is to say that someone visiting, may not be impressed with the hotel and the room and not use it themselves or recommend it to friends?

What happens behind closed doors, as long as it is with consenting adults should matter to no one but the people involved!!!!!

carlos marvado

23-03-12, 00:47

They shouldn't have to be worrying about it. Their priority should be towards running their hotel well and making a profit. As long as the person using the room is respectful and does not annoy their immediate neighbours by keeping them up all night there is no problem. In fact who is to say that someone visiting, may not be impressed with the hotel and the room and not use it themselves or recommend it to friends?

What happens behind closed doors, as long as it is with consenting adults should matter to no one but the people involved!!!!!

In theory yes, but if they were trying to position themselves as a family friendly hotel for family leisure breaks, kids club etc., they might not be to pleased if their hotel gained a reputation for certain other activities. Like if Joe and Josephine Blogs and the two kids had their family room next door to Double D Dolly and she was going at with her clients rather loudly from sunrise until sunset, they might feel awkward trying to explain to the kids what was going on next door, particularly if they would too young to understand about the birds and the bees. :D

UKHeather

23-03-12, 01:20

Curvaceous Kate

23-03-12, 01:40

In theory yes, but if they were trying to position themselves as a family friendly hotel for family leisure breaks, kids club etc., they might not be to pleased if their hotel gained a reputation for certain other activities. Like if Joe and Josephine Blogs and the two kids had their family room next door to Double D Dolly and she was going at with her clients rather loudly from sunrise until sunset, they might feel awkward trying to explain to the kids what was going on next door, particularly if they would too young to understand about the birds and the bees. :D

Read my lips Carlos lol. As long as they do not disturb the neighbours!!!! Anyone who is being a pain in the arse and an unreasonable time of night that prevents others from sleeping should be cautioned politely and if they persist asked to leave the next day. Considering an Escort worth her salt would be discrete and not want to draw attention to herself, she should be able to work within a hotel without having a beacon over her head saying 'I'm a prostitute!'.

We are like any other paying guest and as someone who is a frequenter of Escorts, I'm surprised you have not yet worked out that we are just normal people providing a service. (Well most of us).

carlos marvado

23-03-12, 02:43

Read my lips Carlos lol. As long as they do not disturb the neighbours!!!! Anyone who is being a pain in the arse and an unreasonable time of night that prevents others from sleeping should be cautioned politely and if they persist asked to leave the next day. Considering an Escort worth her salt would be discrete and not want to draw attention to herself, she should be able to work within a hotel without having a beacon over her head saying 'I'm a prostitute!'.

We are like any other paying guest and as someone who is a frequenter of Escorts, I'm surprised you have not yet worked out that we are just normal people providing a service. (Well most of us).

Ah yes, I'm well aware that escorts are normal people, but even normal people can get very exuberant when in the throws of passion. I remember one lady in the UK got served with an ASBO some time back. Seemingly herself and the boyfriend/husband were at it at all hours of the day and night and the neighbours had difficulty getting to sleep with her dulcet tones.

I speak from personal experience here. I once babysat for a friend who is in the same line of work as your good self. She and another friend headed off to a club and brought two men back to the apartment at some ungodly hour. At that stage I went to one bedroom in the hope of getting a good nights sleep but lo and behold, one couple started shagging in the bedroom to the right of me while the other couple started shagging in the living room to the left of me........and these two ladies were of the vocal variety. It was like an orgy in stereo. Now I'm an open minded individual, but I was really looking forward to a good night's sleep on that occasion.

So ladies, when you're shagging away with great gusto, have some consideration.........it could be me in the room next door, and God knows, I need my beauty sleep. :D

Curvaceous Kate

23-03-12, 07:32

Sounds to me like they were not working on that occasion and as such did not have their professional heads on, but were enjoying the experience for themselves.

I have to admit I can be vocal, so could be accused of being a little hypocritical, but that is why I don't take bookings after 9pm when I'm at a hotel. Hotels tend to be pretty empty during the day time, as most people are there to be in the location and not at the hotel, so it's not such a problem.

We do have brains though Carlos and we are capable of making these kind of choices, so we don't disturb the peace. Even then you have to be fairly careful, as the chamber maid will get suspicious if they see a succession of men coming in and out of your room.

ksteve

23-03-12, 08:35

That's not a scenario which was being discussed is it?
Hotels where anybody stays regularly are open to giving a corporate rate.
Some hotels are escort friendly inasmuch as if you are quiet and discreet they leave you to it. Unfortunately, some ladies like to swan around and make their activities a little too obvious.

Well yes it is. There is defeninitely a body of opinion here that believes most hotels would welcome business from escorts. I used my extreme scenario merely to illustrate the point that I didnt believe that it would be policy of hotel management to encourage renting rooms to multiple escorts. They might be happy enough to 'turn a blind eye ' and facilitate the odd discreet lady but that is a very different proposition to deliberately providing an accomodative policy for prostitution. Many clients prefer not to visit escorts in hotels for the very reason that they fear hotel mamagement do not approve.
It actually would be interesting to get a read on this from the IHF, though I'd bet the enquiry would be politely ignored.

Curvaceous Kate

23-03-12, 09:31

Well yes it is. There is defeninitely a body of opinion here that believes most hotels would welcome business from escorts. I used my extreme scenario merely to illustrate the point that I didnt believe that it would be policy of hotel management to encourage renting rooms to multiple escorts. They might be happy enough to 'turn a blind eye ' and facilitate the odd discreet lady but that is a very different proposition to deliberately providing an accomodative policy for prostitution. Many clients prefer not to visit escorts in hotels for the very reason that they fear hotel mamagement do not approve.
It actually would be interesting to get a read on this from the IHF, though I'd bet the enquiry would be politely ignored.

I don't really understand ksteve. I mean by saying this you are yet again singling us out. Hotels provide accomodation for anyone who needs it. Business men, people on holiday, people commuting, people just tired etc Surely an Escort using a room should be no different to any of these? As long as they book a room for use of 2 people and pay like everyone else and respect the property it should not have any impact at all. It should not even be a case of showing a blind eye and to be frank, I would not want to go to a hotel that actively encourages Escorts, as I don't want to be in an overly saturated population, otherwise I would be working in a brothel or parlour, which I do not.

This to me is the problem. Why can't people just accept Escorting as a normal job, with normal people doing the job in normal situations? Even if it was legal I would assume discretion is needed, as no one likes to have sex thrown in their face at inappropriate times and likely many men using Escorts while still married etc. It would still be done behind closed doors and in private and I still think it would be a job that not everyone could do, because it will still be a job that is very intimate and requires a lot of self control and professionalism.

That's my tuppence worth at any rate.

ksteve

23-03-12, 13:11

I don't really understand ksteve. I mean by saying this you are yet again singling us out. Hotels provide accomodation for anyone who needs it. Business men, people on holiday, people commuting, people just tired etc Surely an Escort using a room should be no different to any of these? As long as they book a room for use of 2 people and pay like everyone else and respect the property it should not have any impact at all. It should not even be a case of showing a blind eye and to be frank, I would not want to go to a hotel that actively encourages Escorts, as I don't want to be in an overly saturated population, otherwise I would be working in a brothel or parlour, which I do not.

This to me is the problem. Why can't people just accept Escorting as a normal job, with normal people doing the job in normal situations? Even if it was legal I would assume discretion is needed, as no one likes to have sex thrown in their face at inappropriate times and likely many men using Escorts while still married etc. It would still be done behind closed doors and in private and I still think it would be a job that not everyone could do, because it will still be a job that is very intimate and requires a lot of self control and professionalism.

That's my tuppence worth at any rate.

Hi Kate.:)

me " singling you out " --- " again " ?? :D I dont know where you get this from ?:confused:

Personally, I have no difficulty whatsoever with the idea of visiting an escort in a hotel. I have even done a few recently ! :p

Curvaceous Kate

23-03-12, 13:18

Hi Kate.:)

me " singling you out " --- " again " ?? :D I dont know where you get this from ?:confused:

Personally, I have no difficulty whatsoever with the idea of visiting an escort in a hotel. I have even done a few recently ! :p

Grrrr it's just as well I like you young Steve!!!! You know what I mean, you are talking about Escorts like they are different to any other clientelle who use the hotels, but we're not.

You woudn't have the conversation of... 'I can't imagine hotels encouraging farmers to their hotels, as they all smell of manure!' or 'I can't imagine hotels encouraging couples to their hotels, as they might row all night and keep up the neighbours!'.

See what I'm getting at? Anyone can be a bad client, or a bad guest or a bad employee, but don't assume due to the job that Escorts conduct their business any differently to anyone else when they stay at a hotel. On the surface they are no different, they blend in (or the ones that care do). If we become too obvious then we are not able to work, so why would we want to be obvious? Remember, the hotel room is not free, we have made an investment and like any other business person, we want to protect our investment and that also includes the reputation of the place we work at.

ksteve

23-03-12, 19:17

Grrrr it's just as well I like you young Steve!!!! You know what I mean, you are talking about Escorts like they are different to any other clientelle who use the hotels, but we're not.

You woudn't have the conversation of... 'I can't imagine hotels encouraging farmers to their hotels, as they all smell of manure!' or 'I can't imagine hotels encouraging couples to their hotels, as they might row all night and keep up the neighbours!'.

See what I'm getting at? Anyone can be a bad client, or a bad guest or a bad employee, but don't assume due to the job that Escorts conduct their business any differently to anyone else when they stay at a hotel. On the surface they are no different, they blend in (or the ones that care do). If we become too obvious then we are not able to work, so why would we want to be obvious? Remember, the hotel room is not free, we have made an investment and like any other business person, we want to protect our investment and that also includes the reputation of the place we work at.

Now I really like you ! :):)

Jeez, I was accused the other day of 'despising ' street prostitutes :confused: ( complete rubbish btw ! ) , now it feels like people think I look down on escorts who stay in hotels -- WTF is going on ??? :banghead::banghead:

I LOVE INDEPENDENT ESCORTS WHO STAY IN HOTELS -- LOVE THEM AND BOOK THEM !! :D :D ( I accept I know nothing about street prostitutes , I never approached one. Mea culpa !!) .

LaBelleThatcher

24-03-12, 15:20

You know what I mean, you are talking about Escorts like they are different to any other clientelle who use the hotels, but we're not.

Sadly, that factor, in itself, is confirmation of the fact that "there is always one". :(

On the whole though, escorts are good business for all these big, impersonal, hotels that are half empty most of the time.

A woman in control of the room almost always means less work for housekeeping for starters!

I did notice, in recent years, that a lot of hotels have started to charge a single price for the room rather than how many people occupy it (in the past they were always finicky that, even if a room had two double beds in it, the only people who set foot in it should be those who checked in...but that changed dramatically, I think, at least partly, because of tighter drink driving laws that changed the nature of much of the hotel market.

I think "trip advisor" can be invaluable...a quick glance will often tell you something about the character of an hotel (and, of course the quality of the management, which, after a really bad, non-escort related, scare, is a significant factor!).

ksteve

24-03-12, 18:35

Sadly, that factor, in itself, is confirmation of the fact that "there is always one". :(
.

Just so unfair and so wrong Eileen.:(

LaBelleThatcher

24-03-12, 20:41

I meant "there is always one" in the sense that, just like anybody else, sooner or later there is always one escort who spoils everything for the majority who are considerate and responsible people....what ON EARTH is "wrong and unfair" about that? :rolleyes:

ksteve

24-03-12, 22:58

Grrrr it's just as well I like you young Steve!!!! You know what I mean, you are talking about Escorts like they are different to any other clientelle who use the hotels, but we're not.

"You know what I mean, you are talking about Escorts like they are different to any other clientelle who use the hotels, but we're not."

Sadly, that factor, in itself, is confirmation of the fact that "there is always one". :(
.

Just so unfair and so wrong Eileen.:(

I meant "there is always one" in the sense that, just like anybody else, sooner or later there is always one escort who spoils everything for the majority who are considerate and responsible people....what ON EARTH is "wrong and unfair" about that? :rolleyes:

My apologies Eileen, I picked you up wrong. I incorrectly thought you were referring to me and my post.