View Full Version : Does anybody out there have any information on Turn Off The Blue Light?!
Jack in the Box
20-03-12, 01:13
Members of the Turn Off The Blue Light campaign did invaluable work last year. However there hasn’t been any activity seen since 2012 and we are well into this year at this stage.
I suspect that a couple of stalwarts in the campaign (who did great work) maybe drifted away from being active. If this is the case then they need to be either urged to get involved again or replaced.
Also there should be a spokesperson for the site.
On another different point Escort Ireland should drum into all these journalists looking for a story that it has zero tolerance for exploitation. Lets put Ruhama and the Immigrant Council of Ireland on the back foot and not our side.
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 12:06
Members of the Turn Off The Blue Light campaign did invaluable work last year. However there hasn’t been any activity seen since 2012 and we are well into this year at this stage.
I suspect that a couple of stalwarts in the campaign (who did great work) maybe drifted away from being active. If this is the case then they need to be either urged to get involved again or replaced.
Also there should be a spokesperson for the site.
On another different point Escort Ireland should drum into all these journalists looking for a story that it has zero tolerance for exploitation. Lets put Ruhama and the Immigrant Council of Ireland on the back foot and not our side.
Good point, and while they are doing that I think it is time for everyone in, or connected to the sex industry to drum into the the same journalists that they have zero tolerance for Ruhama, the ICI and their whole propaganda machine....and to start showing the Government we have no need for them either by putting structures in place to take care of ourselves and each other like the fully functioning, competant adults we are.
Jack in the Box
20-03-12, 19:22
Ruhama and company are complete interfering busy bodies as we know LaBelleThatcher. It would be nice if journalists and interveiwers like Tom Dunne for instance gave them a Vincent Browne style grilling instead of an easy ride.
Regarding Turn Off The Blue Light while it is good that the website is accessable it is not possible to add to it on Facebook and also the Google ad has disappeared. It needs a boost and a kickstart and to be fully running. There was some very impressive material put on it in 2011.
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 20:12
Ruhama and company are complete interfering busy bodies as we know LaBelleThatcher. It would be nice if journalists and interveiwers like Tom Dunne for instance gave them a Vincent Browne style grilling instead of an easy ride.
But he can't really do that can he? They buy advertising on Newstalk...and there is a certain etiquette goes with that...it would be the equivalent of Samlad suddenly exhorting the the ladies here to "abjure their wicked ways and seek redemption" when it isn't even April 1st...
You really, truly, cannot blatantly bite the hand that feeds you. It did come across to me, on air that he may have a rather naive and idealistic way of looking at things that isn't going to be able to see hardcore hypocrisy for what it really is any time soon for real, let alone challenge it on air AND take the flack. He is still only very young isn't he?
Regarding Turn Off The Blue Light while it is good that the website is accessable it is not possible to add to it on Facebook and also the Google ad has disappeared. It needs a boost and a kickstart and to be fully running. There was some very impressive material put on it in 2011.
I have actually had a couple of polite and friendly, totally justified, lectures about my earlier stance on TOTBL, and the hypocrisy of promulgating my own prejudices while expecting other people to set theirs aside.
I actually took a good look at the site and they seem to have been making very similar points to me. So that's me very sheepish - :o
Lesson learned...
Anyway, they need a royal kick in the pants...
Time to wake up and get it together...
Jack in the Box
22-03-12, 01:59
Another quick response LaBelleThatcher for now. Ruhama shouldn't be missed as an advertising customer really. We really need to get TOTBL up and running properly. Is it possible to find out who controlled the website?
Another quick response LaBelleThatcher for now. Ruhama shouldn't be missed as an advertising customer really. We really need to get TOTBL up and running properly. Is it possible to find out who controlled the website?
Yes, using the whois search on http://www.iedr.ie it comes back as registered to:
Domain: turnoffthebluelight.ie
descr: Turn Off The Blue Light
descr: Unincorporated Association
descr: Unincorporated Association Name
admin-c: AMS843-IEDR
tech-c: DAD1-IEDR
renewal: 11-April-2012
status: Active
nserver: ns1.mediatemple.net
nserver: ns2.mediatemple.net
source: IEDR
person: Mary Smith
nic-hdl: AMS843-IEDR
source: IEDR
person: Digiweb Hosting
nic-hdl: DAD1-IEDR
source: IEDR
From their contact page:
Turn Off the Blue Light
Suite 136
103-105 Lower Rathmines Road
Dublin 6
Ireland
Our telephone number is +353 1 5253559.
Now off for my morning jog.
LaBelleThatcher
22-03-12, 14:26
Ah, that would be the Mary Smith that is a first cousin to the person that owns my site? ;)
Why not put a request on the General board? Maybe someone will sticky it till there is a response?
LaBelleThatcher
22-03-12, 14:48
Just left a message on the phoneline too to say everybody is looking for them here...they must have paid the last bill for line to still be open.
Jack in the Box
25-03-12, 18:16
At least you seem to be able to add to its Facebook page. You would think that you can’t do that as when TOTBL is accessed on Facebook it defaults to an article at the end of last year about Ms. Sheila Farmer instead of the most recent posts. You have to click “Everyone(most recent)”.
Their email address was bouncing back. I have tried contacting a few people associated with TOTBL as well.
As was said before the site needs to get up and running properly. It would be good if it had a spokesperson to go to the media as also.
I will try putting a request on the General Board and hopefully more light can be shed on what is going on.
https://www.escort-ireland.com/boards/threads/59676-Website-Turn-Off-The-Blue-Light
https://www.escort-ireland.com/boards/threads/59676-Website-Turn-Off-The-Blue-Light
Hmm...that was what I suspected myself. But while it was a great idea, it gives the gutter press and the opposition plenty of ammunition to use, especially in light of their recent coverage of this site, that people behind the cause simply have a profit motive as opposed to just altruism.
Now, of course, the opposition aren't doing it out of the good of their hearts either, given that they're part of the institutionalised professional NGO stable, but it still won't stop them from slinging mud.
Deleted that thread, as it is way old and out of date, and might give wrong impression.
Deleted that thread, as it is way old and out of date, and might give wrong impression.
Ruhama already had one of their pet journalists do a hatchet job on it already last year. As you say, I'm not sure what the situation is with TOTBL now, but the first rule of these type of heated, issued-related politics is never to be caught with your finger on the trigger.
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 20:41
Ruhama already had one of their pet journalists do a hatchet job on it already last year. As you say, I'm not sure what the situation is with TOTBL now, but the first rule of these type of heated, issued-related politics is never to be caught with your finger on the trigger.
Personally I am tired of blindly following Ruhama's pet journalists (HOW can they promote the Sunday World KNOWING how that paper bullies, harasses, and destroys sex workers and their families regularly? That is beyond the usual despicable)...so I intend to do some asking around more neutral and informed sources with a less pronounced aversion to facts to see what the real story is.
Ruhama already had one of their pet journalists do a hatchet job on it already last year. As you say, I'm not sure what the situation is with TOTBL now, but the first rule of these type of heated, issued-related politics is never to be caught with your finger on the trigger.
Nobody has been "caught with their finger on the trigger". TOBL started out here, that is a fact that has never been denied by anybody. I'm only saying highlighting a thread about TOBL starting out here is not appropriate because TOBL was only here a few weeks before it moved on to be not associated with E-I.
Nobody has been "caught with their finger on the trigger". TOBL started out here, that is a fact that has never been denied by anybody. I'm only saying highlighting a thread about TOBL starting out here is not appropriate because TOBL was only here a few weeks before it moved on to be not associated with E-I.
Thanks for the clarification on the background, Patricia. It's natural that an initiative such as TOTBL would start here in what is probably the present centre of sex worker internet activity but it was useful to hacks to paint it in a certain light to the public, who we must remember, probably don't know a lot about these issues (or at least I didn't till I joined here). Good campaigns on any controversial issue always get stung that way, and accused of being a "front" for something else by their mud slinging opponents.
In fact TV3 contacted E-I and asked about the connection to TOBL and E-I provided a statement regards this, including confirming that TOBL did indeed start out on E-I. Of course TV3 didn't use this statement as the truth isn't scandelous enough. Instead they went and stood outside an empty building and claimed TOBL falsely claimed it was their HQ. Complete rubbish, the address on the TOBL website is a company called Mailboxes Etc which provides mail forwarding services to loads of individuals, small businesses, orgs etc.
In fact TV3 contacted E-I and asked about the connection to TOBL and E-I provided a statement regards this, including confirming that TOBL did indeed start out on E-I. Of course TV3 didn't use this statement as the truth isn't scandelous enough. Instead they went and stood outside an empty building and claimed TOBL falsely claimed it was their HQ. Complete rubbish, the address on the TOBL website is a company called Mailboxes Etc which provides mail forwarding services to loads of individuals, small businesses, orgs etc.
Well, it's just what Eileen has been pointing out all along. It's a dort of "confirmation bias", anything inconsistent with their agenda or the image they wish to portray will be neatly overlooked. They never let the truth stand in the way of a good story, as has always been said.
Of course, a lot of groups and individuals use mail forwarding and virtual office services nowadays, thankfully long gone are the days when starting out require a huge amount of capital to rent an office or else you had to use your home address and have every Tom, Dick and Harry with an issue or agenda calling to your home.
Another sad point is, companies like E-I can do something about it when the media attacks us. Most of the untrue things said about E-I in the media, the media doesn't actually say "Escort-Ireland.com", it says "escort ireland". This is so if our lawyers complain, they can say they weren't talking about Escort-Ireland.com, they were talking about one of the dozens of other websites that goes by that name. When the media has said untrue things about Escort-Ireland.com before, we have taken legal action and got retractions, appologies etc. The point I'm getting to is that TV3 etc do have to think twice before slandering E-I, as they know we are capable of holding them to account. But with a small sex workers association or collective, the media know they can say what they like without recourse, as what's the chances of the people involved having the money to hire lawyers to fight back, or wanting the exposure of their identities that would involve? I'm afraid small sex workers orgs are liable to get maulled in the the media very unfairly by people like Paul Connolly, cheap, unethical, gutter journalists.
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 21:19
In fact TV3 contacted E-I and asked about the connection to TOBL and E-I provided a statement regards this, including confirming that TOBL did indeed start out on E-I. Of course TV3 didn't use this statement as the truth isn't scandelous enough. Instead they went and stood outside an empty building and claimed TOBL falsely claimed it was their HQ. Complete rubbish, the address on the TOBL website is a company called Mailboxes Etc which provides mail forwarding services to loads of individuals, small businesses, orgs etc.
You couldn't dig out the actual statement at some point could you Pat?
(Mercifully, there is a bill in the senate that might be the writing on the wall for all this misuse and misattribution of photographs and names...)
You couldn't dig out the actual statement at some point could you Pat?
(Mercifully, there is a bill in the senate that might be the writing on the wall for all this misuse and misattribution of photographs and names...)
Only for you, I'll go locate it...
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 21:24
Another sad point is, companies like E-I can do something about it when the media attacks us. Most of the untrue things said about E-I in the media, the media doesn't actually say "Escort-Ireland.com", it says "escort ireland". This is so if our lawyers complain, they can say they weren't talking about Escort-Ireland.com, they were talking about one of the dozens of other websites that goes by that name. When the media has said untrue things about Escort-Ireland.com before, we have taken legal action and got retractions, appologies etc. The point I'm getting to is that TV3 etc do have to think twice before slandering E-I, as they know we are capable of holding them to account. But with a small sex workers association or collective, the media know they can say what they like without recourse, as what's the chances of the people involved having the money to hire lawyers to fight back, or wanting the exposure of their identities that would involve? I'm afraid small sex workers orgs are liable to get maulled in the the media very unfairly by people like Paul Connolly, cheap, unethical, gutter journalists.
See other post, there is a bill going through now that should put a stop to most of that, or, at least, the exposing of sex workers for sport that goes on take a look:
http://www.politics.ie/news/new-privacy-bill-proposed-senators-next-week-could-potentially-allow-super-injunctions-206.html
The trouble is, once it is said in the media, a challenge just tends to perpetuate it. :( Nobody ever pays any attention to the retractions.
I have to say I have been very pleasantly surprised by E-I.
Another sad point is, companies like E-I can do something about it when the media attacks us. Most of the untrue things said about E-I in the media, the media doesn't actually say "Escort-Ireland.com", it says "escort ireland". This is so if our lawyers complain, they can say they weren't talking about Escort-Ireland.com, they were talking about one of the dozens of other websites that goes by that name. When the media has said untrue things about Escort-Ireland.com before, we have taken legal action and got retractions, appologies etc. The point I'm getting to is that TV3 etc do have to think twice before slandering E-I, as they know we are capable of holding them to account. But with a small sex workers association or collective, the media know they can say what they like without recourse, as what's the chances of the people involved having the money to hire lawyers to fight back, or wanting the exposure of their identities that would involve? I'm afraid small sex workers orgs are liable to get maulled in the the media very unfairly by people like Paul Connolly, cheap, unethical, gutter journalists.
Yes, unfortunately, the whole "freedom of the press" lie has granted them to be allowed a number of loopholes to avoid a successful defamation action being taken against them. "Anonymous sources" (non-journalist speak: "I made it up") and "fair comment in the public interest" are all broad defences which allow them to escape responsibility.
At least with the Defamation Act 2009 in place, it's been made a little easier and more straight forward to pursue untrue and defamatory statements than had previously been the case under the non-codified Tort of Defamation (split into libel and slander, but now it's all the one). In terms of a voluntary sex worker organisation, hopefully there would be some willingness for people with legal experience to assist on a pro-bono basis. The resurgence of FLAC (which actually no longer takes volunteers as they're full!) and the recent rejuvenation of the Public Interest Law Alliance (PILA) shows that there is a willingness from some, mainly young professionals, to get involved in pro-bono work as it's always beneficial career wise too.
The 2009 Act also allows some cases to go through the Circuit Court, which is a big turnaround from always having to go to the High Court with it's astronomical expenses. But as Eileen points out, once the dirt is thrown it generally sticks even if they're forced to retract it and even apologise.
Ok it was a long statement as a lot of questions were asked about a lot of things, but E-I was asked to make a comment on TOBL and also if E-I owned any TOBL domains. In response to this, the following reply was given:
It is not our place to comment on other organisations and as such we will not be commenting on Turn Off the Blue Light. I have checked and neither turnoffthebluelight.ie or turnoffthebluelight.com is registered to E Designers. Turn Off the Blue Light did start out of open discussions in community areas of the Escort-Ireland.com website and the .com domain was originally secured by E Designers, before being handed over to the Turn Off the Blue Light organisation a few weeks later in March 2011.
This isn't really important detail here. I am just clarifying that there hasn't been deception going on here. Connolly likes to come in with the "Oh look what sordid secrets I've discovered!" line, but in reality he discovered nothing.
I'll have to go read up on that new privacy bill.
The common situation I know of at the moment is, to make a complaint via the Press Ombudsman, you have to provide your real name and contact details to the newspaper you are complaining about. So, escort gets her photos published by rag newspaper, if she wants to complain about this via the Press Ombudsman, first thing she has to do is provide rag newspaper with her name and address etc. This stops a lot of escorts complaining.
I'll have to go read up on that new privacy bill.
The common situation I know of at the moment is, to make a complaint via the Press Ombudsman, you have to provide your real name and contact details to the newspaper you are complaining about. So, escort gets her photos published by rag newspaper, if she wants to complain about this via the Press Ombudsman, first thing she has to do is provide rag newspaper with her name and address etc. This stops a lot of escorts complaining.
Yes, it's the same with the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. However, in a lot of these Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) schemes you can appoint a representative to deal with proceedings as I've dealt with a few Employment Rights issues involving non-national workers that way, but obviously like any case the applicant (or plaintiff) who has suffered damage has to be known. Otherwise it wouldn't be in line with the standard of fair procedures as set down by the Supreme Court in Healy v Donoghue, I think it was, off the top of my head.
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 21:51
I'll have to go read up on that new privacy bill.
The common situation I know of at the moment is, to make a complaint via the Press Ombudsman, you have to provide your real name and contact details to the newspaper you are complaining about. So, escort gets her photos published by rag newspaper, if she wants to complain about this via the Press Ombudsman, first thing she has to do is provide rag newspaper with her name and address etc. This stops a lot of escorts complaining.
That is SO SICK. :(
Well, when we get rid of Ruhama, and get some sane legislation, that will be another thing to work on... :)
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 21:59
It is not our place to comment on other organisations and as such we will not be commenting on Turn Off the Blue Light. I have checked and neither turnoffthebluelight.ie or turnoffthebluelight.com is registered to E Designers. Turn Off the Blue Light did start out of open discussions in community areas of the Escort-Ireland.com website and the .com domain was originally secured by E Designers, before being handed over to the Turn Off the Blue Light organisation a few weeks later in March 2011.
So edesigners just set up the domain and website as a sort of contribution to TOTBL?
I am really sorry Pat...I bought all that stuff about a "fiendish pimpish plot" and of all people I should have known better. :o
I only had to stop being jaundiced and read it to see that, if it was a "fiendish pimpish plot" then it was a very funny way to be going about it...(I am just trying to imagine some pimp DOING all the intense research and writing out all the feminism...doesn't really jive...).
So edesigners just set up the domain and website as a sort of contribution to TOTBL?
I am really sorry Pat...I bought all that stuff about a "fiendish pimpish plot" and of all people I should have known better. :o
I only had to stop being jaundiced and read it to see that, if it was a "fiendish pimpish plot" then it was a very funny way to be going about it...(I am just trying to imagine some pimp DOING all the intense research and writing out all the feminism...doesn't really jive...).
It started out here, it would have been fair to call it an E-I project for its first few weeks, but as it was talked about it was decided it needed to be independent to E-I, that it should be an escort led association not an E-I project, and that's what happened, that's where it went.
Besides, as it struck me in reading that particular article, if I was a so-called "pimp" I'd be a lot more careful in how I'd establish a group so that sensationalists wouldn't able to establish a link as easily as these people could (since they're certainly not known for their depth or integrity of research).
It started out here, it would have been fair to call it an E-I project for its first few weeks, but as it was talked about it was decided it needed to be independent to E-I, that it should be an escort led association not an E-I project, and that's what happened, that's where it went.
I had no idea about that Pat when I linked to the first post I could find about TOBL. I never joined it. Is it escorts only who are involved now and would you happen to know how active it is?
I had no idea about that Pat when I linked to the first post I could find about TOBL. I never joined it. Is it escorts only who are involved now and would you happen to know how active it is?
I believe membership was open to everybody so it was not *only* escorts that could be members, but it was set up in a way where escorts were making the key decisions. I'll try to get some info.
LaBelleThatcher
26-03-12, 01:38
It started out here, it would have been fair to call it an E-I project for its first few weeks, but as it was talked about it was decided it needed to be independent to E-I, that it should be an escort led association not an E-I project, and that's what happened, that's where it went.
There is something very sad about that...normal people, behaving responsibly, and because it is the sex industry it gets turned into something grubby, that even I believe in...well, I will not be allowing myself to be persuaded into that degree of prejudice and gullibility again in a hurry...
There is something very sad about that...normal people, behaving responsibly, and because it is the sex industry it gets turned into something grubby, that even I believe in...well, I will not be allowing myself to be persuaded into that degree of prejudice and gullibility again in a hurry...
[Opposition voice] But selling sex isn't responsible...all involved are victims...rabble rabble rabble...men....bad
[Opposition voice] But selling sex isn't responsible...all involved are victims...rabble rabble rabble...men....bad
Bajaxed, this world is currently being ruled by men, and it has been this way for a long time now. Of course majority of men took the advantage and behave like pricks without even realising it as due to their position in the society, they have no comparison so its became a norm.
We can be only lucky that members of the supressed sex are sometimes willing to express their opinion where they can and remind us about the problem, so the good men can take a note and see wheather there is something they could improve about their behaviour.
Bajaxed, this world is currently being ruled by men, and it has been this way for a long time now. Of course majority of men took the advantage and behave like pricks without even realising it as due to their position in the society, they have no comparison so its became a norm.
We can be only lucky that members of the supressed sex are sometimes willing to express their opinion where they can and remind us about the problem, so the good men can take a note and see wheather there is something they could improve about their behaviour.
That is true but it's largely beyond the control of ordinary men or women, and is also a consequence of centuries of discrimination and downright hatred which I've never understood nor would willing want to take part in. I view women as at least equals, though many times I've noted their superiority in certain areas (planning, quick thinking, ability to think outside the box, and in some cases sheer ruthlessness).
That is true but it's largely beyond the control of ordinary men or women, and is also a consequence of centuries of discrimination and downright hatred which I've never understood nor would willing want to take part in. I view women as at least equals, though many times I've noted their superiority in certain areas (planning, quick thinking, ability to think outside the box, and in some cases sheer ruthlessness).
I believe that every ordinary man and woman has the choice to take control of their life and of the things they agree or disagree with. You can only be made feeling like a victim if you agree to it. So is it with the dominator. Just the other side of same coin.