View Full Version : An appeal to all escorts
Jack in the Box
20-03-12, 01:10
The Sex Worker’s Alliance Ireland needs as many escorts as possible to contact them. This is important as the more escorts (happy with what they do) that make their voices known the more difficult it is for the like of Ruhama and the Immigrant Council of Ireland to make out that all sex workers are victims. Their email address is: swaiireland@yahoo.org and their website is: www.sexworkersallianceireland.org/index.html
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 11:46
The Sex Worker’s Alliance Ireland needs as many escorts as possible to contact them. This is important as the more escorts (happy with what they do) that make their voices known the more difficult it is for the like of Ruhama and the Immigrant Council of Ireland to make out that all sex workers are victims. Their email address is: swaiireland@yahoo.org and their website is: www.sexworkersallianceireland.org/index.html
Jack, I am going to have to state here that I have had no choice but withdraw my earlier endorsement of this particular organisation, despite spending a year struggling to see them in as positive a light as possible. Not least because they hardly ever bother to respond to contact from sex workers, and we are not, in real terms, welcome at any decision making level within the Alliance.
In truth it seems to be a group of people from within various organisations such as the WHP and AIDS Alliance who would like to form their own NGO to counter Ruhama, run our lives and usurp our voices for us instead. Which is exactly how the WHP/RUHAMA alliance first began.
There are serious moves going on now to form a real Sex Worker Representative organisation run by sex workers and I recommend that people start getting together towards that, and only consider forming any Alliance with SWAI from a position of strength as a truly user lead organisation.
I think I disagree LaBelleThatcher!
I believe you are correct that SWAI is mainly made up of people working in organisations that work with sex workers rather than actual sex workers. But I am not aware of them not really welcoming sex workers at any decision making level, I see it more that they don't have enough sex workers involved yet, but they have a much more sex worker friendly attitude than Ruhama and co., and hopefully they can grow to include actual sex workers more.
I am not getting an attitude from SWAI that they want to run sex workers lives and silence them like Ruhama. That could be the case, but I have not seen anything to suggest it will be yet.
I also note that some of the organisations involved in SWAI do great work with sex workers. We know many escorts who have found Chrysalis very helpful. Also various escorts use the services of the WHP (The management there is very pro Ruhama, but apparently various other staff are not so judgemental!).
I'd love to see a strong organisation led by actual sex workers up and running, that would be brilliant, but I also feel SWAI are doing good work so far and I think escorts should take an interest in SWAI.
Remember as well, taking an interest in SWAI doesn't exclude an escort from also taking an interest in any actual sex worker run projects. I think sex workers generally do know better than anyone else when it comes to sex work, but non sex workers can also be a great support to sex workers. SWAI have some people involved with experience that can bring something useful to debates here I think. They also have spokespeople who can go on radio and TV which is something that organisations very much made up of sex workers can often struggle with due to privacy concerns.
I admit I don't know SWAI very well, only what I've seen in the media and what other people have told me about them, but I'd say to escorts give SWAI a chance here, go see what they are about and if they are an organisation you can support and approve of yourself, don't judge them now before you have done that.
Pat x
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 15:13
I don't know Pat, experience in other areas has made me into a hard liner in favour of user based representative organisations these days. They are the only ones that stay focussed on the actual issues rather than the funding streams and the status quo.
It's almost as if these organisation represent a superfluous political middle man, and it does give a very bad impression in cases where the target group are more than capable of representing themselves.
Try reading this page http://www.tui.ie/About_TUI/Default.86.html but substituting the following (transposed from a real NGO) for the first paragraph and you will get an idea what I mean:
"The Teachers' Union of Ireland is dedicated to being the primary source of information and support to organising teachers and lecturers in Ireland engaged in post-primary, higher and further education, working towards an improved quality of life for our members along with a respect and acceptance of teachers and lecturers in Ireland engaged in post-primary, higher and further education as valued members of Irish Society."
Very different emphasis isn't it? Bordering on the ridiculous...but that is the way these organisations are presenting us..and we are letting them, by not getting our fingers out and forming our own representative group. How can people be expected to see us as autonomous until we act that way?
The government now formally favour self funding user groups in preference to NGOs (Duh? RECESSION... :) ) and if any group of people can afford to fund their own user group at all it should surely be sex workers?
We are not "financially disadvantaged" compared to most people unless we are prevented from working.
One of the most disempowering thing Ruhama and WHP did to the women back in 1993 was to manage to convince some of them that they should not speak at conferences etc unless people were willing to pay them to do so!
Imagine where Ireland would be now if Michael Collins and Dev had refused all non-paying gigs?
:eek:
They were subtly conditioning the women to see themselves as "primary source material" to be paid for and used, rather than autonomous representatives with a right to demand a voice and a hearing even if they had to pay for it.
We have to change that...
Forgive my intrusion as an interested observer i.e. non sex worker, but I find a lot of the points you make LaBelle (still can't quite type Thatcher, LOL) compelling. One of the main things that will be thrown at any organisation representing sex workers that doesn't have actual sex workers to the forefront will be usurping and non representative. I was heartened to hear that moves are afoot to provide a voice from within, there are many people who can and should speak for sex workers and that is the sex workers themselves, there are however many more vested interests who would purport to speak for them and about them. I know nothing of the work of the SWAI but I do fear that involvement with more than one organisation will lead to disillusionment and distraction. What I mean by that is that any worker who begins and involvement with SWAI and then sees a more representative group appearing will have to start all over again and the enthusiasm with wane damaging both organisations and the worker themself.
My tuppence worth.
I would sincerely hope your wrong on this one, Eileen, as I'd thought these were at least an organisation in which sex workers would have a major say. From hearing your experiences and views I don't think it's possible for someone who has never worked as a sex worker to be setting the agenda or pontificating in any way.
It sounds like sex workers have the same problems organising as any other group of workers. It never takes long till usurpers get in and take over and so the truly independent have to go off and form another new group. Advocacy is important, and that's where I think people who haven't experienced sex work should be directing their energies.
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 19:09
Advocacy is important, and that's where I think people who haven't experienced sex work should be directing their energies.
Yes, and ideally advocacy for whales, or the rain forest, or anyone but us. :)
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 19:10
Forgive my intrusion as an interested observer i.e. non sex worker, but I find a lot of the points you make LaBelle (still can't quite type Thatcher, LOL) compelling. One of the main things that will be thrown at any organisation representing sex workers that doesn't have actual sex workers to the forefront will be usurping and non representative. I was heartened to hear that moves are afoot to provide a voice from within, there are many people who can and should speak for sex workers and that is the sex workers themselves, there are however many more vested interests who would purport to speak for them and about them. I know nothing of the work of the SWAI but I do fear that involvement with more than one organisation will lead to disillusionment and distraction. What I mean by that is that any worker who begins and involvement with SWAI and then sees a more representative group appearing will have to start all over again and the enthusiasm with wane damaging both organisations and the worker themself.
My tuppence worth.
Right on, as always, Doodlebug...and don't worry, I'll pay you 50p for a kiss on the cheek if you want to join. :)
Yes, and ideally advocacy for whales, or the rain forest, or anyone but us. :)
Advocacy with your voice, of course. Maybe I'm too used to Gombeenism, but surely there's always room for people to say what you want them to say?
Right on, as always, Doodlebug...and don't worry, I'll pay you 50p for a kiss on the cheek if you want to join. :)
I'll pay him ten bob a tit and a fiver for his arse ;)
Jack in the Box
20-03-12, 19:55
LaBelleThatcher, Doodlebug,
A twin track approach might be needed. In the short term for starters I think that SWAI is our best bet. They certainly beat Ruhama any day. If there is a danger that legislation will be rushed through the Dail to criminalise the clients of sex workers (plus cause a load of other problems) then some organisation has to tell the government that there are x escorts out there that can make their own mind about their occupations and do not need a nanny state. This will also stop Ruhama and the ICI going around saying that there are only a "tiny few" sex workers not forced into their occupations. It will also stop them insulting people by saying that nearly all escorts were abused as children.
By all means have an organisation more streamlined to the needs of sex workers. But this will take time to set up.
Personally I have an interest in both SWAI and any other organisation that supports genuine rights for people. That is why I have made enquiries about Turn Off The Blue Light in another thread.
Escorts given a proper say will make a powerful force as they have first hand knowledge of the adult industry. The same as a plumber or electrcian would know the best way to put pipes or wires into a building for example.
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 20:18
Advocacy with your voice, of course. Maybe I'm too used to Gombeenism, but surely there's always room for people to say what you want them to say?
Why?
When we can say it better for ourselves and not need a salary for it. ;)
That is what is wrong with the whole "voluntary and community sector" people making jobs for themselves by gagging others so the can insist on speaking for them (and generally chucking in all sorts of agenda driven BS as well).:crucified::soapbox:
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 20:20
I'll pay him ten bob a tit and a fiver for his arse ;)
There you are Doodlebug, we'll have you qualified as a full time, career sex worker before you know it.
:)
Why?
When we can say it better for ourselves and not need a salary for it. ;)
That is what is wrong with the whole "voluntary and community sector" people making jobs for themselves by gagging others so the can insist on speaking for them (and generally chucking in all sorts of agenda driven BS as well).:crucified::soapbox:
I understand, but surely support (i.e.: that being without an agenda or salary) is a good thing. It's more about echoing than leading the chant. It is clearly self-evident that only those who have experience of the industry and situation can lead it.
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 20:47
LaBelleThatcher, Doodlebug,
A twin track approach might be needed. In the short term for starters I think that SWAI is our best bet.
Why?
They have never actually *DONE* anything and respond to any attempt at contact two weeks later, if at all...
They certainly beat Ruhama any day.
Why either?
If there is a danger that legislation will be rushed through the Dail to criminalise the clients of sex workers (plus cause a load of other problems) then some organisation has to tell the government that there are x escorts out there that can make their own mind about their occupations and do not need a nanny state.
Honestly, you would have more joy invoking satan that getting hold of SWAI, let alone getting them to do anything. The only crop up when there is a chance for media exposure...
...anyway, that is what I rose from my tomb to sort (and LET THAT BE A LESSON TO YE...you will NEVER raise old Nick himself by mixing plonk from LIDL with the human blood during the invocation, be thankful you got ANYONE :devils1:) that cheap!)
This will also stop Ruhama and the ICI going around saying that there are only a "tiny few" sex workers not forced into their occupations. It will also stop them insulting people by saying that nearly all escorts were abused as children.
Are they STILL at that? I thought they went ALL QUIET when "one in 5" became and international catchphrase around child sex abuse and their statistics were about level with it.
The only connection I have ever been able to see between sex work and childhood abuse is structural in that coming from an abusive, or just dysfunctional family is likely to leave you with with less support, resources and options for life. I was going to say that only affects crisis and survival sex workers, but thinking about it is may well be a factor in some elective sex workers too - I can well see how a person could make sex work a positive choice to support other choices that the do not have a loving family to support, and that makes great sense too.
By all means have an organisation more streamlined to the needs of sex workers. But this will take time to set up.
Doesn't seem to take anyone else ages to set up a user group, I have seen them up and running and lobbying at top level in weeks in the past couple of years.
Personally I have an interest in both SWAI and any other organisation that supports genuine rights for people. That is why I have made enquiries about Turn Off The Blue Light in another thread.
Escorts given a proper say will make a powerful force as they have first hand knowledge of the adult industry. The same as a plumber or electrcian would know the best way to put pipes or wires into a building for example.
Actually, being honest, there should only be two separate kinds of voice in the sex industry:
Sex Workers
Commercial Service providers
There is no room for professional do-gooders "tithing" the issue for any kind of gain at all. :(
Ruhama "rose to power" on promising to fight back against the '93 act. I have witnessed, at first hand, people who still work for Ruhama promising the women that they would always fight criminalisation.
Yeah, right...I can see that now...:mad:
LaBelleThatcher
20-03-12, 21:01
I understand, but surely support (i.e.: that being without an agenda or salary) is a good thing. It's more about echoing than leading the chant. It is clearly self-evident that only those who have experience of the industry and situation can lead it.
The trick is making sure they leave it at that, rather than appointing themselves to lead without even consulting anyone in their user group...which is what usually seems to happen...
We really need to get to grips with a position of strength before letting anyone within a mile...and we need to make that clear in public.
We also need to get outreach going to all the other sectors of the sex industry...the street workers, the rent boys, lapdancers - everyone.
The need for anonymity was always an insurmountable a barrier to a sex worker representative organisation...but now, with the internet, it does not need to be any more.
The trick is making sure they leave it at that, rather than appointing themselves to lead without even consulting anyone in their user group...which is what usually seems to happen...
We really need to get to grips with a position of strength before letting anyone within a mile...and we need to make that clear in public.
We also need to get outreach going to all the other sectors of the sex industry...the street workers, the rent boys, lapdancers - everyone.
The need for anonymity was always an insurmountable a barrier to a sex worker representative organisation...but now, with the internet, it does not need to be any more.
Yes, I agree completely. That's where I'm coming from.
Nature hates a vacuum
Jack in the Box
22-03-12, 01:55
LaBelleThatcher
Just a brief response to your posts for now. You point is taken that there is a danger of an organisation drifting completely away from what the sex workers wanted in the first place. It is interesting the way you pointed out that during the history of Ruhama. But that probably won't happen with SWAI over the next 6 months to a year and one way or another we need to get out there and start demolishing the arguments that Ruhama and friends put up.
I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.
carlos marvado
22-03-12, 20:57
LaBelleThatcher
Just a brief response to your posts for now. You point is taken that there is a danger of an organisation drifting completely away from what the sex workers wanted in the first place. It is interesting the way you pointed out that during the history of Ruhama. But that probably won't happen with SWAI over the next 6 months to a year and one way or another we need to get out there and start demolishing the arguments that Ruhama and friends put up.
I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.
And that is the important point and I think it is very unlikely to happen.
Whilst I agree with LaBelleThatcher in the sense that working or former escorts would probably be the best people to put the case for the sex workers' viewpoint forward, I can't see it happening, or at least I cant see it happening to the degree that the ICI and Ruhama make themselves available openly and publicly to the media. We have grown accustomed to seeing spokespersons for Ruhama on the airwaves, on news broadcasts, on current affairs and investigative programs, as well as in the print media. Now I can't see any escorts going on the 6.01 or 9.00 RTE News or TV3 News, or on Primetime, The Frontline or Tonight with Vincent Browne unless maybe they sit behind a screen or with their backs to the audience in a darkened part of the studio with their faces in shadow and speaking through some sort of a machine to disguise their voices (can't see clients doing it either by the way). So how is the public to judge an openly conducted campaign by people in front of the camera (albeit with hidden agendas) versus a campaign by people lurking in the shadows or wearing face masks (a la 1970s style paramilitaries)?
It's a no brainer. If I were a Ruhama person, I would simply challenge those escorts who want to campaign against a proposed new law, that if they want sex work to be recognised and not driven underground, if they want it to be viewed as something acceptable and normal, they should stand up, be counted and drop the mask.
These blogs are all fine and good and they do at least demonstrate that some escorts are engaged and making an effort to get their experiences and points of view across, but you have to ask yourself, what audience are they reaching and who are they convincing or what influence are they having. These blogs (both for and against) tend to be one-sided affairs. If people agree with the particular thrust of a blog, they leave a comment, otherwise they post a critique of it somewhere like here. Places like boards.ie do facilitate what passes for debate, but most people either hold to preconceived opinions or just oppose positions without putting counter positions forward, and the number of contributors and readers is probably quite small. So none of this can be considered as a substitute for public debate or for having the potential to sway public opinion or influence the 167 legislators who decide the fate of any proposed legislation.
I know nothing about the SWAI, but I believe that the TOBL campaign was a spectacular own goal, as it took the media no time at all to highlight who was behind that organisation. I note that LaBelleThatcher (who has made some of the best contributions from an escort/former escort perspective) is not overly impressed by the SWAI and the fact that it is not escort driven or accurately reflects the concerns or wishes of escorts. However, as escorts are unlikely to expose themselves willingly to the media spotlight and fight their own campaign in public, it may be left to the SWAI and others to conduct the counter campaign from a human rights, civil choice or right to work perspective. Many organisations, including academics have done extensive research on sex work and sex workers from different perspectives including those of the voluntary or essential sex workers; so there is a wealth of information and statistics etc. available and also people qualified to debate these issues from differing backgrounds or disciplines. Of equal importance, is that these people will often have lecturing, debating, public speaking experience and media skills and training and they would be in a position to conduct a proper debate in public.
Whilst sex worker advocacy groups may not always represent the concerns or opinions of each and every sex worker accurately or fully, if you are going to exclude their potential contribution to a proper public debate and rely on one sided blogs instead (no matter how good they may be), then this battle is surely lost.
Half Man and Half Dildo
22-03-12, 21:17
LaBelleThatcher
I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.
I think the phrase "Nero fiddled while Rome Burned" is appropriate.
In some of my earlier posts I provided links to places online where the sex industry was being discussed in the hope that some of the escorts from here would get involved, but as far as I could see nothing happened in that regard.
I fear that in a few months time Ruhama will be holding victory celebrations and the community here will be talking about what should have been done before it was too late. I even offered to donate some money via one of the Irish girls I know to help fund a campaign, but never even got a single PM about it.
AS I said before there's no point in always waiting for Ruhama to make the first move - catch the fuckers off-guard with a radio interview with Pat Kenny or something.
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Curvaceous Kate has a great entry in her blog - Where do I stand on being an Escort? - that, and lots more like it, needs to appear in papers, online, radio, etc, soon or it will be too late.
LaBelleThatcher
22-03-12, 21:40
LaBelleThatcher
Just a brief response to your posts for now. You point is taken that there is a danger of an organisation drifting completely away from what the sex workers wanted in the first place. It is interesting the way you pointed out that during the history of Ruhama. But that probably won't happen with SWAI over the next 6 months to a year and one way or another we need to get out there and start demolishing the arguments that Ruhama and friends put up.
...and IN THE OTHER CORNER...there isn't a lot of risk of SWAI doing ANYTHING of any use within the next 6 months either...
I KNOW...why not adopt 'em as a client representative organisation...
Actually, as soon as we enter the final phase towards law reform (which the government seem to be making excuses to delay) there is a HUGE risk of SWAI entering an informal alliance with Ruhama at any minute...and leaving the actual sex workers high and dry...and then we will have 10 years of SWAI and Ruhama speaking for us without bothering to find out what we thing first.
I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.
Well it is in the pipeline already...watch this space...
The media is a separate problem. There is no doubt in my mind that we are being gagged by mainstream media...
But I see Senhor Marvado may have touched on some ideas that could get around that. ;)
LaBelleThatcher
22-03-12, 22:15
And that is the important point and I think it is very unlikely to happen.
Whilst I agree with LaBelleThatcher in the sense that working or former escorts would probably be the best people to put the case for the sex workers' viewpoint forward, I can't see it happening, or at least I cant see it happening to the degree that the ICI and Ruhama make themselves available openly and publicly to the media. We have grown accustomed to seeing spokespersons for Ruhama on the airwaves, on news broadcasts, on current affairs and investigative programs, as well as in the print media. Now I can't see any escorts going on the 6.01 or 9.00 RTE News or TV3 News, or on Primetime, The Frontline or Tonight with Vincent Browne unless maybe they sit behind a screen or with their backs to the audience in a darkened part of the studio with their faces in shadow and speaking through some sort of a machine to disguise their voices (can't see clients doing it either by the way). So how is the public to judge an openly conducted campaign by people in front of the camera (albeit with hidden agendas) versus a campaign by people lurking in the shadows or wearing face masks (a la 1970s style paramilitaries)?
But what if we chose, instead to wear the Burqa (which can be ordered from ebay fairly cheaply http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burgandy-satin-Niqab-veil-burqa-islamic-clothes-Hijab-khimar-sunnah-scarf-islam-/110837757776 ), also as a gesture of solidarity with our Iranian sisters who work under threat of the death penalty...thereby going as far as it is possible to prove that you *CANNOT* eradicate the sex industry, you can just persecute and abuse the people in it.
Except perhaps we choose a specific colour or border for the Burqa that is *OURS*?
We could protest, whatever, to our hearts content that way.
It's a no brainer. If I were a Ruhama person, I would simply challenge those escorts who want to campaign against a proposed new law, that if they want sex work to be recognised and not driven underground, if they want it to be viewed as something acceptable and normal, they should stand up, be counted and drop the mask.
...and if they had not spent even the past 10 years putting so very much time and energy into abusing the strength of the stigma around sex workers not only to usurp our voices, but also for funding, you would get away with it too...but they did, so you won't. :P
These blogs are all fine and good and they do at least demonstrate that some escorts are engaged and making an effort to get their experiences and points of view across, but you have to ask yourself, what audience are they reaching and who are they convincing or what influence are they having. These blogs (both for and against) tend to be one-sided affairs. If people agree with the particular thrust of a blog, they leave a comment, otherwise they post a critique of it somewhere like here. Places like boards.ie do facilitate what passes for debate, but most people either hold to preconceived opinions or just oppose positions without putting counter positions forward, and the number of contributors and readers is probably quite small. So none of this can be considered as a substitute for public debate or for having the potential to sway public opinion or influence the 167 legislators who decide the fate of any proposed legislation.
My site, which barely comes up on google and which I am always forgetting to pimp took a sudden, dramatic 16,000 hits last month...
I know nothing about the SWAI, but I believe that the TOBL campaign was a spectacular own goal, as it took the media no time at all to highlight who was behind that organisation.
But is that really who is behind it? I believed that, honestly I did...but now I am not so sure.
I'll be honest with you, I haven't asked anyone that question here, mostly because it doesn't seem that important.
I was told, gently, but in no uncertain terms, by people who have managed to impress me with their "no frills" sincerity that I was being unfair about TOTBL...so I DID go over it with a fine tooth comb in the past few days, and frankly, apart from the huge wealth of research I am always too lazy to do, I might as well have written it myself for most of the points made...
...and I realised something, very, very true...that WHOEVER is behind it is capable of seeing things are they are, reaching the right conclusions and singing the right song, all by themselves anyway (and does not show the faintest trace of desire to make their name and fortune in the NGO sector - unlike all other options), so who really cares who is behind it? Except in terms of reactivating it...
I note that LaBelleThatcher (who has made some of the best contributions from an escort/former escort perspective) is not overly impressed by the SWAI and the fact that it is not escort driven or accurately reflects the concerns or wishes of escorts. However, as escorts are unlikely to expose themselves willingly to the media spotlight and fight their own campaign in public, it may be left to the SWAI and others to conduct the counter campaign from a human rights, civil choice or right to work perspective. Many organisations, including academics have done extensive research on sex work and sex workers from different perspectives including those of the voluntary or essential sex workers; so there is a wealth of information and statistics etc. available and also people qualified to debate these issues from differing backgrounds or disciplines. Of equal importance, is that these people will often have lecturing, debating, public speaking experience and media skills and training and they would be in a position to conduct a proper debate in public.
*savage bitter little laugh*
...and every bit of that research has been spun towards their personal "main chance" and away from the best interests of sex workers...what you are really saying is the old fallacy the "bad support is better than not support at all", when, in truth, bad support is usually more trouble than nit is worth...
BUT...ALL MOOT...until SWAI drop the idea that they are too good to talk to anyone but the press and do not need input from sex workers confusing their issues (yes, I tried establishing an alliance with SWAI already and was just stonewalled -n whatever they say publicly SWAI is a private party...token sex workers, for ceremonial purposes only, IF YOU PLEASE)
Whilst sex worker advocacy groups may not always represent the concerns or opinions of each and every sex worker accurately or fully, if you are going to exclude their potential contribution to a proper public debate and rely on one sided blogs instead (no matter how good they may be), then this battle is surely lost.
I am not excluding them...see above...they are just trying to hijack the issue and exclude us (what else is new? :rolleyes:)...they would literally have to be cornered into anything akin to an alliance - and even then it would be for appearances only.
LaBelleThatcher
22-03-12, 22:54
I think the phrase "Nero fiddled while Rome Burned" is appropriate.
In some of my earlier posts I provided links to places online where the sex industry was being discussed in the hope that some of the escorts from here would get involved, but as far as I could see nothing happened in that regard.
PM them to me in future? I will dive in...except boards...I am banned from there...basically because they couldn't take me down...
I fear that in a few months time Ruhama will be holding victory celebrations and the community here will be talking about what should have been done before it was too late. I even offered to donate some money via one of the Irish girls I know to help fund a campaign, but never even got a single PM about it.
That was wonderful of you, but I don't think money is the problem...it's will...and fingers that need getting out...
AS I said before there's no point in always waiting for Ruhama to make the first move - catch the fuckers off-guard with a radio interview with Pat Kenny or something.
Curvaceous Kate has a great entry in her blog - Where do I stand on being an Escort? - that, and lots more like it, needs to appear in papers, online, radio, etc, soon or it will be too late.
Sadly, you have to wait to be chosen, or the media just ignore you :(
That was wonderful of you, but I don't think money is the problem...it's will...and fingers that need getting out...
Well the surgery to remove those fingers would want to be occurring soon. I know if the Swedish model was already in, I wouldn't even contemplate seeing an escort if there was any possibility of ending up down in my local station for the whole world to see and a few decent lads I know to see.
Jack in the Box
25-03-12, 18:14
LaBelleThatcher,
There is a possibility that sex workers could be left high and dry. However inaction is not an alternative. As someone said before we cannot fiddle while Rome burns.
Either Turn Off The Blue Light needs to be a fully functioning organisation or else a new sex worker led organisation has to get off the ground.
A core of 5 plus people maybe would be enough to start off with. As many other escorts as possible should be encouraged to join or be affiliated with the organisation.
As long as the sex workers firmly call the shots it mightn’t be any harm to employ the use of spokespersons, debaters, researchers and technical people if they can’t be found within a pool of escorts.
Carlos Marvado made the point that many sex workers mightn’t appear openly on tv etc. Someone who is a good debater and has confidence will need to represent the organisation.
Also TD’s and senators should be met. A senator made an offer to meet TOTBL before Christmas which I don’t think has taken place.
There is propaganda that Ruhama is trying to spread. If escorts and their friends get together now Ruhama and the ICI will not be able to state that 1. There are only a “tiny few” sex workers who not forced into what they do. 2. Most escorts were victims of child abuse.
A nucleus of the organisation needs to be started soon. Either by reinvigorating TOTBL or creating a new group. Time is needed for growth and name recognition. Money shouldn’t be a problem as donations would be money well spent by many users of E-I.
LaBelleThatcher
25-03-12, 18:55
LaBelleThatcher,
There is a possibility that sex workers could be left high and dry. However inaction is not an alternative. As someone said before we cannot fiddle while Rome burns.
Either Turn Off The Blue Light needs to be a fully functioning organisation or else a new sex worker led organisation has to get off the ground.
Trust me, in the background we are in the final phase before launch...angels24angels24angels24
A core of 5 plus people maybe would be enough to start off with. As many other escorts as possible should be encouraged to join or be affiliated with the organisation.
AHEM...you do realise you are currently surrounded by a horde of above average intelligence, rabidly independent ladies...there could be a significant health risk in providing too much instruction...even I wouldn't get away with that for the full 5 minutes...:o:eek::o
As long as the sex workers firmly call the shots it mightn’t be any harm to employ the use of spokespersons, debaters, researchers and technical people if they can’t be found within a pool of escorts.
That will, of course, be for the sex workers themselves to decide...when they have a position of strength to decide it from...given the amount of them with training and experience as spokespersons, debaters, researchers and technical people...there may well wind up being a bit of a cat fight over those roles, without bringing in outsiders...
Carlos Marvado made the point that many sex workers mightn’t appear openly on tv etc. Someone who is a good debater and has confidence will need to represent the organisation.
...and I am sure the ladies will be able to decide that for themselves in due course...
Also TD’s and senators should be met. A senator made an offer to meet TOTBL before Christmas which I don’t think has taken place.
Which Senator was that? Must chase that up.
There is propaganda that Ruhama is trying to spread. If escorts and their friends get together now Ruhama and the ICI will not be able to state that 1. There are only a “tiny few” sex workers who not forced into what they do. 2. Most escorts were victims of child abuse.
A nucleus of the organisation needs to be started soon. Either by reinvigorating TOTBL or creating a new group. Time is needed for growth and name recognition. Money shouldn’t be a problem as donations would be money well spent by many users of E-I.
I think you will find everything is moving ahead really, really nicely...
Trust me, in the background we are in the final phase before launch...angels24angels24angels24
AHEM...you do realise you are currently surrounded by a horde of above average intelligence, rabidly independent ladies...there could be a significant health risk in providing too much instruction...even I wouldn't get away with that for the full 5 minutes...:o:eek::o
That will, of course, be for the sex workers themselves to decide...when they have a position of strength to decide it from...given the amount of them with training and experience as spokespersons, debaters, researchers and technical people...there may well wind up being a bit of a cat fight over those roles, without bringing in outsiders...
...and I am sure the ladies will be able to decide that for themselves in due course...
Which Senator was that? Must chase that up.
I think you will find everything is moving ahead really, really nicely...
It's good to know, because as I've said before there's absolutely no shortage of intelligent ladies here who in one swoop could smash the negative stereotypes and, I think the quite hurtful smears, which some of these groups put out. Call me a mysongist and sexist prick if you wish, but I was actually surprised by the level of intelligence and independence of the ladies here when I initially joined.
As for the opposition, in fact, I'd say that they've nearly already been given enough rope to hang themselves with if you nose through their "reports". The spokesperson issue is one of concern, as obviously the majority of the ladies are still working and mightn't be comfortable with drawing attention to themselves, but I suppose that's an issue that you can come to when it arises. As long as any initiative is firmly led and controlled by sex workers, it shouldn't be a problem.
Jack in the Box
25-03-12, 21:50
LaBelleThatcher,
If such a development that you described goes ahead it is to be very welcomed. It should have the help and support of as many people as possible.
The senator I mean is Senator Jillian Van Turnhout. She wrote some article before Christmas talking about an offer to meet TOTBL which I don't think went ahead. (http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/2011/11/21/guest-post-van-turnhout-on-criminalising-the-purchase-of-sex/) Unfortunately the article was endorsing Ruhama's position but at least she was willing to meet someone from our side. So this senator is someone who needs to be met to put our case to.
LaBelleThatcher
26-03-12, 22:41
LaBelleThatcher,
If such a development that you described goes ahead it is to be very welcomed. It should have the help and support of as many people as possible.
The senator I mean is Senator Jillian Van Turnhout. She wrote some article before Christmas talking about an offer to meet TOTBL which I don't think went ahead. (http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/2011/11/21/guest-post-van-turnhout-on-criminalising-the-purchase-of-sex/) Unfortunately the article was endorsing Ruhama's position but at least she was willing to meet someone from our side. So this senator is someone who needs to be met to put our case to.
Must have a chat with her...also, I would love to know who "Sandra" is?
Must have a chat with her...also, I would love to know who "Sandra" is?
Oh god, did you see the Christian headbanger? I can't believe this people are still alive.
Jack in the Box
29-03-12, 16:13
Must have a chat with her...also, I would love to know who "Sandra" is?
LaBelleThatcher,
Please do. There is a bad need for people to be informed. I have a feeling that "Sandra" and a person called "Mandy" wrote many pieces including loads of material for TOTBL. I haven't heard from them recently. Hopefully they'll get involved again as they were worth their weight in gold.
LaBelleThatcher
29-03-12, 21:23
Oh god, did you see the Christian headbanger? I can't believe this people are still alive.
Thank the Void it is not only me who sees this!
LaBelleThatcher
29-03-12, 21:24
LaBelleThatcher,
Please do. There is a bad need for people to be informed. I have a feeling that "Sandra" and a person called "Mandy" wrote many pieces including loads of material for TOTBL. I haven't heard from them recently. Hopefully they'll get involved again as they were worth their weight in gold.
There is an huge amount of research on the site...I hope nothing untoward has happened?
Jack in the Box
30-03-12, 11:55
There is an huge amount of research on the site...I hope nothing untoward has happened?
Hopefully not. But all we can do is put out queries. Getting TOTBL more active and/or starting up a new sex worker led organisation is a big step in the right direction.