View Full Version : Agree or disagree?
Curvaceous Kate
02-03-13, 16:48
http://eminism.org/blog/entry/268
Understanding the Complexities of Sex Trafficking and Sex Work/Trade: Ten Observations from a Sex Worker Activist/Survivor/Feminist (http://eminism.org/blog/entry/268)Date: October 8, 2011
PDF version here: Download (http://eminism.org/readings/pdf-rdg/complexities_print.pdf) – Print back to back upside down, then cut the paper in half horizontally. Makes two copies from a letter-sized paper. Feel free to distribute, but I’d love to know where and how you are using them.
1. Start from the assumption that women’s (and other people’s) experiences in the sex trade are diverse and complicated, just like women’s experiences in the institution of marriage.
2. Sex trade is often one of the few means of survival employed by members of marginalized communities. Criminalizing or taking away means of survival without replacing it with other, more preferable options and resources (as judged by people who engage in this activity) threatens the lives of marginalized people. If, on the other hand, we could actually provide more preferable options and resources, there is no need to criminalize or take away the option of trading sex.
3. The presence of consent does not imply fairness of the transaction, because consent can exist under deeply problematic relationships of power. Consent does not imply that one is solely and individually responsible for all consequences of the act performed consensually.
4. There is nonetheless a meaningful distinction between consensual and unconsensual sexual transactions because it helps us to recognize modes of intervention that are helpful rather than counter-productive to those involved. People who engage in consensual sex trade are harmed if the transaction is stopped, while those who are part of unconsensual acts are harmed if the transaction isn’t stopped.
5. Work under neoliberalistic capitalist economy is often exploitative and degrading. Treating sex work “just like any other work” is inadequate when “other work” are often performed under unsafe or exploitative conditions. Selling and buying of sex as commodities can be exploitative and degrading, as are selling and buying of labor, health, and safety in the neoliberalistic capitalist marketplace.
6. Legalization or decriminalization of prostitution will not end State violence against people in the sex trade. There are other laws, such as those concerning drugs, immigration, and “quality of life” crimes, that are being used against them. Arguments over how the law should classify prostitution (legalizing, decriminalizing, criminalizing, Swedish model, etc.) eludes realities of communities that are targeted by State as well as societal violence.
7. It is undeniable that the mainstream pornography and sex industry reflect and perpetuate women’s lower status in relation to men. But so do mainstream media and workplaces–sometimes in more harmful ways.
8. It may seem theoretically plausible to eliminate sex trafficking by ending the demand for commercial sexual services. But in reality, any artificial reduction of demand through increased policing would be immediately followed by a decline of price, which would in turn create more demand again. “End demand” policies have a devastating impact on the women’s bargaining power to negotiate for more money and safer acts, putting their safety and health at greater risk.
9. Many “experts” and “spokespersons” for the anti-trafficking movement are social, fiscal, and religious conservative extremists who have promoted anti-welfare, anti-immigration, anti-gay agenda. These very policies break down families and make women and children vulnerable to sexual exploitation and trafficking. Feminists and human rights activists must choose our allies.
10. We cannot fight sex trafficking effectively without partnering with sex workers, people in the sex trade, and their advocates. All over the world, it was workers organizing among themselves that have challenged and transformed exploitative and abusive working conditions, not police officers or politicians. In addition, people working in the sex industry have access to insider knowledge that need to be incorporated into any successful campaign to combat sex trafficking and other human rights violations within the industry.
Curvaceous Kate
02-03-13, 19:00
Ok I'll start the ball rolling. I agree with number 10 whole heatedly. I think it is vital to improving conditions and making sure everyone feels they can ask for help or protection should they need it.
Way too much sense in the article Kate - couldn't possibly have a three-dimensional approach to sex work for God's sake - haven't you heard that its easy-peasy to kill prostitution - end demand and hence supply ends - and the Money FairyGodmother picks up the tab for the vulnerable forever and ever.
Amen.
To be fair , emi is a class act of a blogger - jesus , when you see the quality of output of some many respected,articulate people on the issue basing their writings on common sense and genuine empathy, you really feel nothing but contempt for the way the pro-swedish model use vulnerable people as pawns for the pursuit of their beliefs - even when the evidence stares them straight in the face.
LaBelleThatcher
02-03-13, 22:12
I think that article says it all...
...and BY THE WAY, the fact that people often hate working in MacDonalds, or Aldi and only do it out of desperation doesn't mean you are some kind of war criminal for shopping there...or that they need "rescue" from having an income.
Curvaceous Kate
02-03-13, 22:15
Way too much sense in the article Kate - couldn't possibly have a three-dimensional approach to sex work for God's sake - haven't you heard that its easy-peasy to kill prostitution - end demand and hence supply ends - and the Money FairyGodmother picks up the tab for the vulnerable forever and ever.
Amen.
To be fair , emi is a class act of a blogger - jesus , when you see the quality of output of some many respected,articulate people on the issue basing their writings on common sense and genuine empathy, you really feel nothing but contempt for the way the pro-swedish model use vulnerable people as pawns for the pursuit of their beliefs - even when the evidence stares them straight in the face.
It does make me cross that they seem to assume that we are all to thick to actually have an opinion or worthwhile opinion and from what I have seen on some forums, some members of the general public, actually do think we are disease ridden, drug taking alcoholics who don't have our eyes open enough to know if it is day or night, let alone have anything worth saying. Yet daily these amazing women and clients prove that to be wrong, but they just don't get air time.
It's all very big brother isn't it, you wouldn't think there was a democracy.
Thank you once again Kate for keeping us up to speed and posting really useful links on the topic.
It's not so much agree or disagree as a real eye opener for me. Or at least helping me see some things form a different perspective.
6. Legalization or decriminalization of prostitution will not end State violence against people in the sex trade. There are other laws, such as those concerning drugs, immigration, and “quality of life” crimes, that are being used against them. Arguments over how the law should classify prostitution (legalizing, decriminalizing, criminalizing, Swedish model, etc.) eludes realities of communities that are targeted by State as well as societal violence.
This one is food for thought for me. I have been so tied up in thinking about the fairest model for prostitution that it never occured to me, that actual legal status of prostitution may only be one factor in the freedom or lack of freedom experienced by sex workers.
http://eminism.org/blog/entry/268
3. The presence of consent does not imply fairness of the transaction, because consent can exist under deeply problematic relationships of power. Consent does not imply that one is solely and individually responsible for all consequences of the act performed consensually.
This is a bit of a shocker to me. That consent doesn't imply fairness! But what she says does make sense. However, how the heck is a client meant to judge what an escorts circumstances are?
Thankfully she does follow it up with no.4.
4. There is nonetheless a meaningful distinction between consensual and unconsensual sexual transactions because it helps us to recognize modes of intervention that are helpful rather than counter-productive to those involved. People who engage in consensual sex trade are harmed if the transaction is stopped, while those who are part of unconsensual acts are harmed if the transaction isn’t stopped.
7. It is undeniable that the mainstream pornography and sex industry reflect and perpetuate women’s lower status in relation to men. But so do mainstream media and workplaces–sometimes in more harmful ways.
I find this one hard to swallow and don't agree with it.
For starters there is no such things as main stream ponography. There is as much diversity in porn as there is in human experience in marriage or even escorting for that matter.
Men and women will never view porn in the same light. Our sexuality is very different. Us men are visual creatures. We get turned on by the sight of naked women (hence the popularity of lesbian porn becuase it involves not one, but at least two, if not more naked women!!). Porn, by and large is a tool for men to mastubate to. We don't have vivid imaginations like women, we need porn for this sort of thing. It has nothing to do with male-female status.
This sort of view will take us down the same route Iceland has. First they adopt the Swedish model along with banning lap dancing clubs and anything like that. Now they've decided to ban porn. Which will make porn join the ranks of drugs, illegal cigarettes and all other manner of contraband that the criminal underworld makes a thriving business off!
10. We cannot fight sex trafficking effectively without partnering with sex workers, people in the sex trade, and their advocates. All over the world, it was workers organizing among themselves that have challenged and transformed exploitative and abusive working conditions, not police officers or politicians. In addition, people working in the sex industry have access to insider knowledge that need to be incorporated into any successful campaign to combat sex trafficking and other human rights violations within the industry.
Amen!!!!! Nuff said!!
Respect!!
Now if only the committee appointed by the Justice department could see the complexities involved in dealing with legislation on prostitution in the above light!
LaBelleThatcher
03-03-13, 00:11
This is a bit of a shocker to me. That consent doesn't imply fairness!
Why a shocker Morpheus? The world is FULL of people consenting to all sorts of unfair things because they have no fair choices, only a "best choice", and they have the sense to make it...
I am not sure that I have had made many choices in my own life that did not fall into that category. But that is the point at which it is REALLY EVIL to start trying to take choices away...
Curvaceous Kate
03-03-13, 00:47
I find this one hard to swallow and don't agree with it.
For starters there is no such things as main stream ponography. There is as much diversity in porn as there is in human experience in marriage or even escorting for that matter.
Men and women will never view porn in the same light. Our sexuality is very different. Us men are visual creatures. We get turned on by the sight of naked women (hence the popularity of lesbian porn becuase it involves not one, but at least two, if not more naked women!!). Porn, by and large is a tool for men to mastubate to. We don't have vivid imaginations like women, we need porn for this sort of thing. It has nothing to do with male-female status.
This sort of view will take us down the same route Iceland has. First they adopt the Swedish model along with banning lap dancing clubs and anything like that. Now they've decided to ban porn. Which will make porn join the ranks of drugs, illegal cigarettes and all other manner of contraband that the criminal underworld makes a thriving business off!
I think she means by mainstream she means the acceptance of anal and the fact that it seems almost expected in many porn movies for the lady to take the same tool that has been there in her mouth afterwards. I find that degrading and yet I have seen it in many different films. It's the bit that I fast forward, as it makes me want to heave. That is just one example.
She is right when she says that there is degradation in the media and workplace as a whole. I think it is degrading to women that nearly all pictures on magazines are photoshopped to death, so that women's expectations of themselves can never be achieved. That women that are better qualified than their male counter parts are given lesser jobs and less wages, even when doing the same job.
Every day women face degradation, but a woman who decides to use her body to empower her, instead of getting a few free drinks at a nightclub and we classed as 2nd rate citizens who are not capable of anything else.
Life is truly mixed up.
Ok I'll start the ball rolling. I agree with number 10 whole heatedly. I think it is vital to improving conditions and making sure everyone feels they can ask for help or protection should they need it.
To me 10 is "good old fashioned common sense" and the issue of consent is very important to me as an individual as the escort who consents to offer her service must be doing so because she alone chooses to.
I agree with Morpheus about the diversity within porn, just like with any other aspect of human life.
I never really understand why people say porn is about male dominance. Sure, there is porn out there to cater for people who want to see men choking women, but actually if you look at the top rated videos on sites, it's actually more ordinary scenes that are popular. I personally like amateur stuff, and I like to see the woman enjoying herself. I didn't develop that preference from watching porn, I've always wanted that. And I imagine the guys who want to see a woman treated like dirt on screen have issues independent of porn watching.
I do agree with Kate though that porn can create unrealistic expectations. It is pretty standard in porn that the guy comes on the woman's face at the end, but that's just do you can see it, I think. It would be anti-climactic to see the guy coming inside her. In reality, I've no idea why you would want to come on a woman's face, it sounds like a very frustrating finish for the guy!
But porn can also create unrealistic expectations for men themselves. I used to be very nervous about sex, performance anxiety etc.. and I think that learning about sex from watching guys getting rock hard erections on cue helped create this anxiety
Curvaceous Kate
03-03-13, 18:37
I agree with Morpheus about the diversity within porn, just like with any other aspect of human life.
I never really understand why people say porn is about male dominance. Sure, there is porn out there to cater for people who want to see men choking women, but actually if you look at the top rated videos on sites, it's actually more ordinary scenes that are popular. I personally like amateur stuff, and I like to see the woman enjoying herself. I didn't develop that preference from watching porn, I've always wanted that. And I imagine the guys who want to see a woman treated like dirt on screen have issues independent of porn watching.
I do agree with Kate though that porn can create unrealistic expectations. It is pretty standard in porn that the guy comes on the woman's face at the end, but that's just do you can see it, I think. It would be anti-climactic to see the guy coming inside her. In reality, I've no idea why you would want to come on a woman's face, it sounds like a very frustrating finish for the guy!
But porn can also create unrealistic expectations for men themselves. I used to be very nervous about sex, performance anxiety etc.. and I think that learning about sex from watching guys getting rock hard erections on cue helped create this anxiety
It does make you wonder if the women that see it purely as male dominance have any sexual desires at all? Good sex is mutual and enjoyed equally by both/all parties involved. Sometimes that might be role play and sometimes it's purely acting on the chemistry. The funny thing is that the majority of men looking for something other than a 'girl friend experience' (ie mutual enjoyment) are looking to be dominated by the woman, so how exactly does that equate to being demeaning?
I personally like dominant men and I've only ever met 2 or 3 men who are slightly dominant (to my disappointment), as most are either looking for me to take the lead or worried not to offend/upset me, which is commendable, but in a way a shame that they can't go my my reaction and body to tell them where the boundaries are, instead of letting society dictate to them where my boundaries should lie.
Yes, the whole thing is bizarre. People make blanket statements about porn, forgetting that at its most basic level it's just people having sex but with a camera there. Sure, there's some stuff with male dominance in it but it's not like that only ever happens when there's a camera present.
It's just watching people having sex. If I was born a hundred years ago and was living in a one-bed apartment in the same bed as the rest of my family, I would have seen my parents having sex in front of me at some stage, it would have been unavoidable. Yet, nowadays, watching someone else having sex is considered perverted.
I think it's interesting what you said about not having met many dominant males.
I think anti-porn people paint a very unfair and unrealistic picture about the average man. We not one-dimensional and many of us have our own particular insecurities about sex and our bodies.
Curvaceous Kate
04-03-13, 10:51
I think it's interesting what you said about not having met many dominant males.
I think anti-porn people paint a very unfair and unrealistic picture about the average man. We not one-dimensional and many of us have our own particular insecurities about sex and our bodies.
I think it is a confidence thing and a lot of men have had the confidence knocked out of them by religion, public perception and their partners who seem to refuse to enjoy the experience, likely for the same reasons given. The body is an amazing thing and has been designed especially for our pleasure. Those erogenous zones were no mistake, so surely if God (if he exists) gave us them, then we are meant to use and enjoy them for what they are?
Humans are weird. I bet the rest of the animal kingdom think we are completely bonkers.
LaBelleThatcher
04-03-13, 11:11
I think porn gets tagged as "male dominated" because men in general tend to have a markedly greater response to erotic stimuli than women.
In other words, men are, in general, more vulnerable targets to market porn to (doesn't sound very dominant when you look at it that way, does it?). If you "REALLY" want a career in porn I would hazard a guess that your opportunities and potential earnings are considerably enhanced just by being a woman. (Hmmm...NOT exactly a gender equal vocation, is it?)
But, once you see porn for what it is, another type of fictional media, then yes, of course it has the capacity to influence people's thinking and behaviour...for good (you can *spin* pornography to limit and sublimate anti-social impulses too) as well as ill, and should be regulated to insure against marketing concerns overriding responsibility the same as any other media should be.
(Personally I cannot stand porn...same as I cannot stand carrots but that does not suggest there is anything wrong with anyone who likes either of them, nor that one or both should be condemned in any way, let alone banned.)