View Full Version : street worker interview on pat kenny radio show
Very good interview by paddy o Gorman with Dublin street worker on todays show. She was very very articulate and open and positive about what she does. Well worth a listen if you can through the website, it was on about 10.20 in the morning.
If legislation is brought in that makes it criminal for men; you will not see me around. Maybe London or elsewhere, only one hour from Dublin.
LaBelleThatcher
11-02-13, 19:56
Heard it, it is a good interview and sounds like any one of a lot of the women I have known.
This "all streetworkers are teenage junkies with pimps" stuff needs filing in the same drawer as "E-I only advertise women for their pimps"!
Honestly (contrary to popular belief as I hear it ;) ) I have seen all areas of the sex industry in my time (seriously, I insinuate myself into EVERYWHERE at some point) and the stuff put out by Ruhama and stooges sounds like the sex industry on a different planet in a different dimension to any I have ever experienced.
Whereas something like this http://sexwork.ie/2012/12/10/monto-children/ decades old, sounds very, very familiar indeed...despite the age of it.
Ruhama and "Turn Off the Red Light" are just MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG and coaching their handful of stooges to tell it that way.
If it was ANYTHING but the sex industry their asses would never be out of court.
Linky
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20153406%3A133%3A11%2D02%2D2013%3A
Linky
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20153406%3A133%3A11%2D02%2D2013%3A
Thanks for the link, wasn't sure how to do it.
Maybe indoor ladies should contact paddy for interview, he only ever interviews women on the street, and he seems genuinely interested in the subject.
That's actually a very good suggestion dob - paddy o gorman does come across as a very genial man and it certainly would be worth asking the programme if he would meet a few escorts for a chat to put across their side of the story and in particular ,what sort of legislation would they like to see introduced.As Paddy himself alluded to , he's not that au fait with the indoor scene which he attributed 'trafficking' to ,so it would be beneficial to broadcast that the strong mahority of sex workers are ordinary people for whom the practical side of having money in the pocket far outweighs the often unpalletable nature of the job. One could probably take it from Pat Kenny's closing remarks that he's dubious about TORL's stated aims.
Heard it, it is a good interview and sounds like any one of a lot of the women I have known.
This "all streetworkers are teenage junkies with pimps" stuff needs filing in the same drawer as "E-I only advertise women for their pimps"!
Honestly (contrary to popular belief as I hear it ;) ) I have seen all areas of the sex industry in my time (seriously, I insinuate myself into EVERYWHERE at some point) and the stuff put out by Ruhama and stooges sounds like the sex industry on a different planet in a different dimension to any I have ever experienced.
Whereas something like this http://sexwork.ie/2012/12/10/monto-children/ decades old, sounds very, very familiar indeed...despite the age of it.
Ruhama and "Turn Off the Red Light" are just MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG and coaching their handful of stooges to tell it that way.
If it was ANYTHING but the sex industry their asses would never be out of court.
Interesting. But on average would you say that streetworkers have it rougher than indoor workers? Or is it that they're more likely to be in a desperate situation in the first place to be working on the street?
Ronald Weitzer, a sociologist from George Washington University, advocates for a "two-track" policy towards prostitution in the States. Decriminalization for indoor prostitution. And increased law enforcement for off-street prostitution, as it does cause problems in some neighbourhoods and leaves the workers open to victimization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Weitzer
It sounds like a fairly level headed idea. I think Irish legislators would do well to stop trying to come up with a "one size fits all" picture of sex work.
LaBelleThatcher
12-02-13, 16:39
Interesting. But on average would you say that streetworkers have it rougher than indoor workers?
Without the '93 legislation streetworkers were far better off than indoor workers, from their own point of view. Less investment, less demanding clients, clients easier to identify and record...more witnesses...
The only thing that endangered streetworkers in Ireland in any significant way *WAS* the 93 act.
Or is it that they're more likely to be in a desperate situation in the first place to be working on the street?
Well that would just be common sense, wouldn't it?
Financially desperate people are unlikely to have access to the means of investment required for indoor work. In a temporary crisis, if they had the money to invest in indoor work they probably wouldn't have the crisis. :)
Also, street work is a lot easier and less invasive than indoor work. Unfortunately, the people who don't mind sex work and the people have no other realistic option to meet their needs than sex work are not always the same people.
Street work also requires less commitment than indoor work...you can go out until the end of this week, meet the mortgage payment, pay the ESB and never have ANY connection to sex work again.
One of the biggest factors for *me* (and a surprising amount of other women) is that street work gives you something of an option on avoiding the bitchiness and "office politics" of indoor work...for myself, if I could have handled THAT I would not have needed to sell sex at all...and I can think of a few others in the same position.
Ronald Weitzer, a sociologist from George Washington University, advocates for a "two-track" policy towards prostitution in the States. Decriminalization for indoor prostitution. And increased law enforcement for off-street prostitution, as it does cause problems in some neighbourhoods and leaves the workers open to victimization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Weitzer
Same as always, anyone who thinks you protect people from being "victimised" by making it impossible for them to earn a living and solve their problems needs some SERIOUS shrink time and regular floggings. :D
It sounds like a fairly level headed idea. I think Irish legislators would do well to stop trying to come up with a "one size fits all" picture of sex work.
I've never had a "one size fits all" picture of ANYTHING let alone sex work.
Create exemption zones, where their presence will be useful (night time security, traffic calming, "take back the night", whatever) as opposed to a problem for street workers with multilateral zero tolerance outside the exemption zones. (as opposed to the blanket unilateral decriminalisation Ruhama want). You will never end street work (mostly because there will never be a way to end families being dependent on the money from street work), so you create legislation that contains it while reducing harm.
Have whatever daft legislation you like to shut TORL up - and then exempt all licenced, tax compliant, sex workers, agencies, advertising services, and anything else that seems licensable from all provisions of aforesaid daft legislation, subject to a degree of rational workplace safety regulation, perhaps with a three month grace period before a licence must be produced.
That covers everyone without harming ANYONE, much less the people who are already at breaking point and cannot take any more harm...and shame on anyone who thinks people should be forced into destitution and the sick, cult like ideology of Ruhama and friends for the crime of being desperate, because neither will help them in the slightest.
...and that last line is the only real "one size fits all" in town...
Interesting. But on average would you say that streetworkers have it rougher than indoor workers? Or is it that they're more likely to be in a desperate situation in the first place to be working on the street?
Ronald Weitzer, a sociologist from George Washington University, advocates for a "two-track" policy towards prostitution in the States. Decriminalization for indoor prostitution. And increased law enforcement for off-street prostitution, as it does cause problems in some neighbourhoods and leaves the workers open to victimization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Weitzer
It sounds like a fairly level headed idea. I think Irish legislators would do well to stop trying to come up with a "one size fits all" picture of sex work.
Here we go again...take Prostitutes off the Street,,,It is okey once it is not visible..do not prosecute women who sell sex indoors. Reality.. There is always going to be people, men and women, who choose Street Work because it is their only choice..;)
Street work should be limited to some kind of safe zone where there would be a descrete leave of security for both parties and where'decent' people wouldn't have there noses rubbed in it or civilian women propositioned by punters
LaBelleThatcher
12-02-13, 21:59
Street work should be limited to some kind of safe zone where there would be a descrete leave of security for both parties and where'decent' people wouldn't have there noses rubbed in it or civilian women propositioned by punters
I do agree with that, the only way to make decriminalisation work is to respect EVERYBODY'S rights...mind you, must point out that civilian women are actually a LOT safer in a red light zone being propositioned by punters than in a deserted back street at 2am getting mugged, or even raped...
Street work should be limited to some kind of safe zone where there would be a descrete leave of security for both parties and where'decent' people wouldn't have there noses rubbed in it or civilian women propositioned by punters
Are You Saying Decent People do not pay for Sex! Yes I agree it is vital that people who choose street work should be safe and please remember it is not just men who pay for sex
Are You Saying Decent People do not pay for Sex! Yes I agree it is vital that people who choose street work should be safe and please remember it is not just men who pay for sex
I did put decent in inverted commas, as in people who would be scandalized by ladies looking for business in their neighbourhoods and in all fairness people should not have to put up with that. Discretion is an important thing in this business.
LaBelleThatcher
12-02-13, 23:29
Are You Saying Decent People do not pay for Sex! Yes I agree it is vital that people who choose street work should be safe and please remember it is not just men who pay for sex
Nah, au contraire, he was saying "decent" people do not pay for sex...quite different...
Incidentally, from my female perspective decent people do not immerse themselves in PUA literature and con sex out of lonely ladies in nightclubs for free...but that is probably just me??
Curvaceous Kate
13-02-13, 01:57
One thing I noted about the interview was that 2 of the 4 ladies found on the street had been working for at least 19 years. I know of some Escorts that have worked around a decade, but am not aware if there are any that have worked beyond that. I'm wondering if there is a leaning towards longevity in the business with street workers, or was it just a coincidence?
They say that ALL sex workers do it out of desperation, but this is evidently not the case, as I know of many women (including myself) who have set themselves goals and once that goal has been achieved they intend to give up. Yes it is possible that they might set themselves a new goal and continue, but still it tends to be an organised structure of work and not a case of, having to do it indefinitely with no light at the end of the tunnel.
It was also interesting to see that the lady that was interviewed, who had done it for 19 years, had a family and a home and was choosing to work on the street, which again blows their theory out of the water, as not all street workers are working due to dependency or having nothing left in their life. Not a last resort, but a means to an end, which lets face it is the same for most jobs. I know hundreds of people that are not 'in love' with their job, but they appreciate the income it gives them and the security.
Ì
One thing I noted about the interview was that 2 of the 4 ladies found on the street had been working for at least 19 years. I know of some Escorts that have worked around a decade, but am not aware if there are any that have worked beyond that. I'm wondering if there is a leaning towards longevity in the business with street workers, or was it just a coincidence?
They say that ALL sex workers do it out of desperation, but this is evidently not the case, as I know of many women (including myself) who have set themselves goals and once that goal has been achieved they intend to give up. Yes it is possible that they might set themselves a new goal and continue, but still it tends to be an organised structure of work and not a case of, having to do it indefinitely with no light at the end of the tunnel.
It was also interesting to see that the lady that was interviewed, who had done it for 19 years, had a family and a home and was choosing to work on the street, which again blows their theory out of the water, as not all street workers are working due to dependency or having nothing left in their life. Not a last resort, but a means to an end, which lets face it is the same for most jobs. I know hundreds of people that are not 'in love' with their job, but they appreciate the income it gives them and the security.
She did confound all the stereotypes of women in her position.
Nah, au contraire, he was saying "decent" people do not pay for sex...quite different...
Incidentally, from my female perspective decent people do not immerse themselves in PUA literature and con sex out of lonely ladies in nightclubs for free...but that is probably just me??
I don't con sex out of lonely women in night clubs and I don't even know what PUA literature is. Does that make me a decent person?
LaBelleThatcher
13-02-13, 13:00
I don't con sex out of lonely women in night clubs and I don't even know what PUA literature is. Does that make me a decent person?
Well, it mean you are at least part way there... :)
Street work should be limited to some kind of safe zone where there would be a descrete leave of security for both parties and where'decent' people wouldn't have there noses rubbed in it or civilian women propositioned by punters
Yes, one should be able to take their ladyfriend for a romantic walk along the canal, without bumping into ones sex partners.
Here we go again...take Prostitutes off the Street,,,It is okey once it is not visible..do not prosecute women who sell sex indoors. Reality.. There is always going to be people, men and women, who choose Street Work because it is their only choice..;)
Well, really I was just asking a question out of genuine interest and presenting research from the US to see if there's a comparable situation in Ireland. I made a suggestion based on a academic studies done in the US. Ron Weitzer is a researcher in the US and he doesn't moralize. He doesn't see anything inherently wrong with indoor prostitution in the US, but reports on the harsher lives of street workers on average, and the fact that it does impact the community negatively - whereas indoor prostitution doesn't.
It may be a completely different situtation in Ireland. I've no idea, that's why I asked LBT for her opinions based on experience. Afaik, there's no reliable academic study on the subject here.
LaBelleThatcher
13-02-13, 17:08
Well, really I was just asking a question out of genuine interest and presenting research from the US to see if there's a comparable situation in Ireland. I made a suggestion based on a academic studies done in the US. Ron Weitzer is a researcher in the US and he doesn't moralize. He doesn't see anything inherently wrong with indoor prostitution in the US, but reports on the harsher lives of street workers on average, and the fact that it does impact the community negatively - whereas indoor prostitution doesn't.
It may be a completely different situtation in Ireland. I've no idea, that's why I asked LBT for her opinions based on experience. Afaik, there's no reliable academic study on the subject here.
I think the point Weitzer royally missed is that persecuting people because you think their lives are too harsh DOES NOT WORK FOR THEM!!! :eek:
Also, everybody, including a lot of other sex workers KEEP missing the point that, like it or not, most sex workers are adults, with brains, they have thought about their options, they know their limitations and however desperate they are, or however limited their options, they have usually MADE THE BONA FIDE BEST CHOICE TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS...
...the only real difference desperation makes is that, the more desperate your situation, the less you can afford other people fecking around with the choice you make for yourself.
If you don't think street worker have enough options, you don't make it impossible for them to use the option they have, you find ways to give them MORE options (and you maybe try to limit that to options you would feel comfortable using yourself).
I have always been in favour of a dedicated MABS/DSP worker SPECIFICALLY to advise and advocate for women who feel their best remaining option is sex work and are not happy with that.
You could campaign for E-I to offer the first fortnight, or even month's advertising free (or on credit) to reduce the costs of indoor work for survival and crisis workers.
There are LOTS of ways to offer streetworkers more options, but if you do not have an option to offer that would work FOR THEM, persecuting them is just cruel and destructive.
The other ill effects of street work can easily be turned into a positive as above.
You just need get away from this insane "their lives are hell so let's fix it by persecuting them" mindset (that is cheerfully being applied to the homeless in the UK too).
In Germany they have zoned areas and most street workers don't like to use them. In Berlin you can work anywhere and it is preferred by most street workers and from what I understand the government has been considering getting rid of these zones. My friend worked as a street worker and the zones would change all the time and she'd get fined or arrested because she didn't know the zones.
Galway_Stud
20-02-13, 18:34
Good inernview maybe some EI ladies might invite PAddy to interview then as he seems interested and cares about the outcome. just an opinion