View Full Version : 2 articles in todays Examiner, Loverboy and Ruhama
page 2 'warning over wise of 'loverboy' trend of coerced prostitution' report on the Oireachtas Justice Committee meeting yesterday, with photo of Rachel and LBT. IS this loverboy thing real and how prevalent is it?
page 8 'Brothel couple must make €4k charity donation to avoid prison' report on court case of man and woman pleading guilty of organizing prostitution in Dublin, with photos of the two. She has to pay €3000 to Ruhama he has to pay €1000. Judges seem to order those convicted of brothel keeping charges to pay money to Ruhama and other such organizations to avoid jail.
How much money does this organisation get from court cases and what does it need all this money for
LaBelleThatcher
17-01-13, 17:58
I find it REALLY offensive when Judges award donations to Ruhama. Because of all I know about Ruhama over the past 20 or more years I would genuinely rather go to prison than donate to them (not that anyone is suggesting such donation in respect of unpaid parking fines).
Ruhama do as much and more harm to sex workers than any of those ordered to donate to them even have.
That is a seriously messed up situation.
I find it REALLY offensive when Judges award donations to Ruhama. Because of all I know about Ruhama over the past 20 or more years I would genuinely rather go to prison than donate to them (not that anyone is suggesting such donation in respect of unpaid parking fines).
Ruhama do as much and more harm to sex workers than any of those ordered to donate to them even have.
That is a seriously messed up situation.
have you any suggestion for an appropriate charity judges could use in these cases
what about the loverboy thing, is it a load of bullshit or have any basis in fact?
the traveller
17-01-13, 20:03
what about the loverboy thing, is it a load of bullshit or have any basis in fact?
There's a case in the Old Bailey now that is of 9 Asian men that have groomed girls as young 11. They were give alcohol. E's and coke. Raped and forced into having sex with a variety of Asian men that travelled as far as Yorkshire and the West Midlands to Oxford where all this was happening.
There was also a very similar case know as the Rochdale case that happened about a year ago. So yes it does happen. These girls all came from troubled backgrounds and in the Rochdale case there was a major failure of the social workers and the police. These girls went to the police but were dismissed as "bad girls". The social workers also thought that the girls had entered sex work of the own free will. These girls were under-age and the authorities should have done something about it. They were children and needed protection, something they were sadly denied.
But making prostitution illegal would not have stopped that. All that had happened was illegal already and needed to be taken seriously. Police the laws that are already there with vigour. Don't use these situations to reinforce ideologies held by radical feminists. Commercial sex is not violence against women and saying so diminishes real violence against women which any right thinking male will abhor.
The Equalizer
17-01-13, 20:16
what about the loverboy thing, is it a load of bullshit or have any basis in fact?
a load of bullshit or have any basis in fact?
I do, however, have a few facts derived from the article.
(A)There are more victims of Domestic Violence (male and female) than there are "victims of prostitution".
(B)Domestic Violence is appalling, (persons who commit such despicable acts against their wives/husbands/long-term partners are lowlife and cowards who deserve a dose of their own medicine), yet sadly the victims of this heinous crime are actually less likely to seek help from the Police than "victims of prostitution".
(C)Senator Mary White made very valid points in the aforementioned article as to her reasons why she would be in favor of decriminalization/legalization of the Sex Industry.
It is also worth noting that Senator White was served with a "gag order" when she spoke out against Swedish-style Legislation. Independent TD Mick Wallace was served with a "gag order" for the same reason.
My most recent point is worth bringing to the attention of the general public (if you catch my drift ;))
There's a case in the Old Bailey now that is of 9 Asian men that have groomed girls as young 11. They were give alcohol. E's and coke. Raped and forced into having sex with a variety of Asian men that travelled as far as Yorkshire and the West Midlands to Oxford where all this was happening.
There was also a very similar case know as the Rochdale case that happened about a year ago. So yes it does happen. These girls all came from troubled backgrounds and in the Rochdale case there was a major failure of the social workers and the police. These girls went to the police but were dismissed as "bad girls". The social workers also thought that the girls had entered sex work of the own free will. These girls were under-age and the authorities should have done something about it. They were children and needed protection, something they were sadly denied.
But making prostitution illegal would not have stopped that. All that had happened was illegal already and needed to be taken seriously. Police the laws that are already there with vigour. Don't use these situations to reinforce ideologies held by radical feminists. Commercial sex is not violence against women and saying so diminishes real violence against women which any right thinking male will abhor.
Ok I heard about that carry on, disgraceful on all levels, but surely a red herring in the debate in Ireland
a load of bullshit or have any basis in fact?
I do, however, have a few facts derived from the article.
(A)There are more victims of Domestic Violence (male and female) than there are "victims of prostitution".
(B)Domestic Violence is appalling, (persons who commit such despicable acts against their wives/husbands/long-term partners are lowlife and cowards who deserve a dose of their own medicine), yet sadly the victims of this heinous crime are actually less likely to seek help from the Police than "victims of prostitution".
(C)Senator Mary White made very valid points in the aforementioned article as to her reasons why she would be in favor of decriminalization/legalization of the Sex Industry.
It is also worth noting that Senator White was served with a "gag order" when she spoke out against Swedish-style Legislation. Independent TD Mick Wallace was served with a "gag order" for the same reason.
My most recent point is worth bringing to the attention of the general public (if you catch my drift ;))
I think you're referring to the Irish Times article, quote from Mary White
Who imposed these gag orders to Mary White and Mick Wallace?
Womens Aid do good work in the area of Domestic violence, but do they have any competence in the area of prostitution?
The Equalizer
17-01-13, 21:15
I think you're referring to the Irish Times article, quote from Mary White
Who imposed these gag orders to Mary White and Mick Wallace?
Womens Aid do good work in the area of Domestic violence, but do they have any competence in the area of prostitution?
I think you're referring to the Irish Times article, quote from Mary White
Indeed I am. As I recall, Senator White pointed out that she "sympathizes with persons who cannot establish/cultivate 'normal sexual' relationships", and she also points out that it would "be in the interest of seller and buyer to decriminalize/regulate the industry". Senator White's opinions in this regard pretty much echo some of my sentiments (and possibly the sentiments of other members of the EI Community) in favor of legalization/regulation of the Sex Industry.
Who imposed these gag orders to Mary White and Mick Wallace?
Maybe I chose the wrong term in "gag order". I cannot recall off-hand who imposed the "gag orders", however I uncovered this information whilst conducting research in relation to the unsatisfactory conduct of Ruhama and TORL (as well as the prejudicial nature of the Joint Oireachtas Committee's conduction of the Consultation to date). It would not be too hard to find, though.
Womens Aid do good work in the area of Domestic violence, but do they have any competence in the area of prostitution?
For their work in the area of Domestic Violence, I salute Women's Aid (along with all the Police Officers and any other reputable bodies/agencies who provide support to victims of Domestic Violence). However, I believe that as prostitution/sex work is not their (Women's Aid) area of expertise, they should not try/be allowed to influence persons with the power to introduce Legislation (i.e "The Swedish Model") which would impose severe negative implications on Sex Workers. The negative implications of Swedish-style Legislation are well documented (by both members of the EI Community and those not in any way connected with the EI Community).
the traveller
18-01-13, 17:34
Ok I heard about that carry on, disgraceful on all levels, but surely a red herring in the debate in Ireland
As you know what happens in the U.K. yesterday can happen here tomorrow. But my point is all that is already illegal and rightly so. Enforce the laws we already have, don't go adding more laws for an already stretched police force that are honestly quite unenforceable. We're adults and don't need a police force for the bedroom ( or living room or stairs or kitchen [I'm sure you get my drift])
I know its mentioned earlier but thought it interesting that girls weren't trafficked.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/kiss-and-tell-former-husband-and-wife-avoid-jail-term-for-running-dublin-brothel-3355482.html