View Full Version : Rip up prostitution law, says top Oslo politician
Naughtynatalie
27-12-12, 12:59
at last someone in power see's sense and speaks out about it
http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/rip-up-prostitution-law-says-top-oslo-politician#.UNxFu-QieSo
Curvaceous Kate
27-12-12, 13:04
at last someone in power see's sense and speaks out about it
http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/rip-up-prostitution-law-says-top-oslo-politician#.UNxFu-QieSo
That'll put a spoke in the works if they do it sooner rather than later. It's good that they are recognizing this, as we all knew that is what it would lead to.
Good article Natalie, thanks for sharing.
Sexy Sandy 69
27-12-12, 19:09
I'm sure that the issue of the sex industry moving further underground would've been brought up when this law was in the process of being passed. The same concerns have been raised here in Ireland. This law plays into the hands of those who already abuse & control escorts, those who need help are further alienated by this law. Not as black & white as painted by TORL. If only policitians had listened to escorts in Sweden, I'm sure these concerns would've been raised beforehand. Hopefully, those countries who see the Swedish Model as the be & end all, will take note of what has happened in Sweden.
Sandy x
at last someone in power see's sense and speaks out about it
http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/rip-up-prostitution-law-says-top-oslo-politician#.UNxFu-QieSo
Thank you Natalie.
Someone should send this to the Joint Oireachtas Committee before their next sitting. Not just the bit about what the Norwegian politician is saying, but the fact that it is based on a report by the cities help centre for prostitutes showing that there has been a rise in violence since the introduction of the Swedish Model in Norway.
You can be damn sure that the TORL brigade will completely ignore this and try to avert the eyes of the Oireachtas committe from the same. Their excuse for the findings will probably be the same as those who came up with the Swedish model - i.e. that sex work is dangerous anyway, so it can't be anymore dangerous!!:mad:
The real question for us is whether the Joint Oireachtas committee will take any heed or whether they just want to push through this legislation.:confused: I fear that the Labour and Finna Fail's representatives have already made up their minds (to push this through). My hope remains with the Fine Gael and Sinn Fein representatives on the committee.
Thank you Natalie.
Someone should send this to the Joint Oireachtas Committee before their next sitting. Not just the bit about what the Norwegian politician is saying, but the fact that it is based on a report by the cities help centre for prostitutes showing that there has been a rise in violence since the introduction of the Swedish Model in Norway.
You can be damn sure that the TORL brigade will completely ignore this and try to avert the eyes of the Oireachtas committe from the same. Their excuse for the findings will probably be the same as those who came up with the Swedish model - i.e. that sex work is dangerous anyway, so it can't be anymore dangerous!!:mad:
The real question for us is whether the Joint Oireachtas committee will take any heed or whether they just want to push through this legislation.:confused: I fear that the Labour and Finna Fail's representatives have already made up their minds (to push this through). My hope remains with the Fine Gael and Sinn Fein representatives on the committee.
Seldom do Irish politicians make rational and researched decisions. What people should consider is that Ireland is one of the capitals of Europe for crime, the crooks we have here are extremely dangerous; I dread to think what will happen to all the women who get caught up in the underground trade that will inevitably follow if they implement the Swedish Model.
The Equalizer
28-12-12, 00:33
Just wondering,
when the Joint Oireachtas Committee decided to visit Sweden and Finland in order to observe/examine how legislation in relation to the Sex Industry is implemented and enacted in Sweden and Finland (the countries visited by the JOC), and met with Police Commissioners and high-ranking Government Officials from Sweden and Finland, why didn't the JOC also consider visiting Denmark (whom rejected Swedish-style legislation [for very valid reasons]) and Norway (where [at least one] high ranking female Government Official) is calling for this legislation to be eradicated.
Was visiting just Sweden and Finland not "one-sided"?
In order to get a more balanced view in relation to legalization and/or regulation of the Sex Industry, the JOC should also visit states such as Denmark, Norway and even Holland (and possibly New Zealand/Australia), and meet with Police Commissioners and high-ranking Government Officials from the aforementioned states to discuss why (A) Swedish-style legislation was rejected, (B)why Swedish-style legislation is being considered for rejection and (C)why the Sex Industry has been legalized and regulated.
There is still time for them to consider the above.
In addition, here is a link to a fairly interesting article
(Link: http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/norway-a-pimp-for-my-prostitute-client#.UNzlCeSWato)
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 13:26
Anti-Trafficking should be a department between An Garda Siochana and the Revenue Commissioners. That should be obvious.
There are serious human rights problems with the way we treat all immigrants and asylum seekers (and the fact that ICI spends all it's resources on attacking sex workers instead of addressing those problems may well be a factor in that) this needs urgent review. I agree a genuine victim of trafficking (should one ever be found) or any other crime cannot humanely be put into the current system...but that being so, I do not see how a person genuinely fleeing famine, abuse or death should humanely be put into it either.
Voluntary economic migrants (including sex workers) also need to be treated with dignity should they lack the resources to support themselves until a decision can be made about deportation.
Looking through their FOI grant applications it seems clear that none of the "special" work Ruhama actually do could not be done better, more impartially, and much more cheaply by a couple of key workers withing the state system. When I first claimed, in the 90s, in the middle of nowhere the inspecting officer for the DSP who came out to evaluate my claim knew more about the REALITY of sex work (through being intelligent and open minded and LISTENING to people) than Ruhama ever have or ever will know...THEY created this mistique of people being "unable to approach services"...I STOOD AND WATCHED THEM DO IT.
"Training" services to deal with sex workers mostly consists in training them to refer all sex workers to Ruhama for "special handling" - that 90% of sex workers just do not need.
Ruhama (instead of anyone else) get to decide if they need help with housing, childcare fees, education fees etc. which means that not only anyone who speaks against them but ALSO any sex worker who simply wishes to speak for herself, or is intolerant of being condescended to, is completely excluded from any available services because Ruhama are the "gatekeepers".
It seems safe to assume that ICI operate on similar principles.
(Actually, I can tell you now that the same principles apply across the whole NGO sector, but let's focus on unraveling this nasty little corner full of adult targets who's physical and mental health and capacity should never be in question. Which, incidentally is a large part of why TORL constantly strive to create a false image of sex workers as 14 year old drug addicts).
The way it works, TORL is the ONLY reason why Ruhama, ICI, and a few other "cottage" industry NGOs have not ALREADY lost their funding - pull the funding, and all 66 clueless and blindly supportive orgs rise up to defend it (coalitions of NGOs are the latest trend in all areas for the exact same reason).
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 16:24
Not liking the overtones of racism there Brock...innocent until proven guilty for one thing...
A parent's first duty is to provide the best possible future for their children...no exemptions...including Africans...
May I remind you that Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany had to try more than one country, before, in many cases being sent back to certain death, as some African people are today.
ALL asylum seekers and economic migrants should be treated, not only with dignity, but as we would expect to be treated ourselves as long as they have a legal right to remain.
I am fully aware that claiming to be a victim of trafficking is known as a back door to entry and better treatment in several migrant communities...but they did not establish the loophole, and they are only properly discharging their duty to their families by taking advantage of it.
There should not be such a loophole, and they should be getting better treatment anyway without having to resort to that kind of deceit.
Getting back to Norway, I was there in June 2007 and spent a Friday night in Oslo. I was walking around town and stumbled on a area of street prostitution and was propositioned a number of times, which I declined. Later on after a night of drinking at closing time in a busy area there were dozens of women, small brown skinned women looking for business, it was absolutely ridiculous how many of there were and how how brazen they were about it. I was quite shocked really
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 18:51
Brock:
Martin Cahill, Dublin born Irishman, was far from innocent, so we should probably bang up all of 'em to be on the safe side?
You really don't know a lot about West Africa, do you?
I often find myself tempted to apply the term "Judenrat" to our dearly beloved, self styled "Sister Survivors" until I remember that most of them have never even been sex workers and, for that reason, the analogy is invalid.
I really do not think you will find much support for the Alabama "strange fruit" model around here.
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 18:55
Getting back to Norway, I was there in June 2007 and spent a Friday night in Oslo. I was walking around town and stumbled on a area of street prostitution and was propositioned a number of times, which I declined. Later on after a night of drinking at closing time in a busy area there were dozens of women, small brown skinned women looking for business, it was absolutely ridiculous how many of there were and how how brazen they were about it. I was quite shocked really
I have to say that watching the BBC documentary on Sweden, if that is what the streets looked like *AFTER* their frightful legislation they must have looked like Croke Park at an all Ireland before.
These idiotic laws do now change anything, they just make life dangerous and difficult for people who do not deserve it, and easy and lucrative for NGOs who ought IMHO be consigned to rotting in Hell.
I have to say that watching the BBC documentary on Sweden, if that is what the streets looked like *AFTER* their frightful legislation they must have looked like Croke Park at an all Ireland before.
These idiotic laws do now change anything, they just make life dangerous and difficult for people who do not deserve it, and easy and lucrative for NGOs who ought IMHO be consigned to rotting in Hell.
Norway's law came in in 2009,
I was there 2 years ago and saw only one hooker on the street, but it was -5 that night!
for any one who is interested check out the position Europe wide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden
Finally someone with the balls to say it, fair play Brock.
We are still the laughing stock of Europe for all these asylum seekers and other assorted illegal immigrants (the elephant in the room is non-EEA sex workers) who continue to stream into the country at an alarming rate, while at least 140,000 Irish people are forced to emigrate.
In 2011, 40% of jobs went to non-nationals and 65,000+ new PPS numbers issued as they stream in to claim welfare (even that number contains some Irish births as well as immigrants and non-Irish births in Ireland)
I guess you wont be getting any love from the Brazilian and other assorted latin lovelies
the traveller
28-12-12, 20:01
This link was posted by someone some time ago and I included it in my submission. So the committee members have *hopefully* seen it. Whether they take any notice or not is a different thing.
As far as funding for Ruhama and the ICI this link, originally posted by the eloquent Miss Lee, is very apt. Take away the funding and the *problem* goes away!
http://thetraffickingresearchproject.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/sex-work-and-the-london-2012-olympics-how-was-it-for-you/
As has been stated before, who has profited more from sex work than Ruhama and who knows more about abuse than the wonderful sisters at the Magdalene laundries.
And rather than moan here, as after all you are talking to the converted, send a letter to all the members of the committee and also to the Minister. Banjaxed posted links to all the members of the committee here.
https://www.escort-ireland.com/boards/threads/106606-Joint-Oireachtas-Committee-on-Justice-hearings-at-2pm/page3
#29 Can't do any harm and could show the depth of feeling in the country. Remember all those TORL organisations are well funded by the government and they employ P.R. consultants and spin doctors. But we are the voice of the people, let it be heard!!!
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 20:10
Finally someone with the balls to say it, fair play Brock.
We are still the laughing stock of Europe for all these asylum seekers and other assorted illegal immigrants (the elephant in the room is non-EEA sex workers) who continue to stream into the country at an alarming rate, while at least 140,000 Irish people are forced to emigrate.
In 2011, 40% of jobs went to non-nationals and 65,000+ new PPS numbers issued as they stream in to claim welfare (even that number contains some Irish births as well as immigrants and non-Irish births in Ireland)
FINE...you leave me NO CHOICE...
I must inform your mother you have been being a bigot in public.
FINE...you leave me NO CHOICE...
I must inform your mother you have been being a bigot in public.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyKsM4f-M0s
LaBelleThatcher
28-12-12, 20:25
Oh I don't know, I am usually considered pretty expert of the topics of bigotry, jingoism and Colonel Blimpery...
My only problem is convincing myself that it isn't some kind of spoof.
Oh I don't know, I am usually considered pretty expert of the topics of bigotry, jingoism and Colonel Blimpery...
My only problem is convincing myself that it isn't some kind of spoof.
You think there are "certain dark forces" at play? :o
Oh I don't know, I am usually considered pretty expert of the topics of bigotry, jingoism and Colonel Blimpery...
My only problem is convincing myself that it isn't some kind of spoof.
unfortunately it's not stereotype; it is common for illegal immigrants to have engaged in crime in their countries otherwise they wouldn't be able to gather the necessary funds to leave their country. This doesn't mean they're bad people; they have no other choice.
Of course, the fact that developed countries exploit the third world is still to blame for putting the people of ex-colonised countries in their situation. We could share the wealth but it all goes to the people who need it the least, and i'm not just talking about politicians; you and me as well.
LaBelleThatcher
29-12-12, 02:25
I recognise all that Ladytron...there is also the fundamental common truth that when a family can club together to send *one* person abroad they will be sorely tempted to send the "bad boy" rather than the best of them.
There is no black and white, just shades of grey, but it is a LOT more complicated than a justification for denying anyone from Africa the same human rights as anyone else. Some are very good people...some are very good people in terms of the savagery they are trying to leave behind.
But hating them on sight solves nothing.
I recognise all that Ladytron...there is also the fundamental common truth that when a family can club together to send *one* person abroad they will be sorely tempted to send the "bad boy" rather than the best of them.
There is no black and white, just shades of grey, but it is a LOT more complicated than a justification for denying anyone from Africa the same human rights as anyone else. Some are very good people...some are very good people in terms of the savagery they are trying to leave behind.
But hating them on sight solves nothing.
agree 100%