View Full Version : Genuine escorts or trfficed girls???
I meet escorts at least 3 times a month and did not even think thay might be forced to do it till i watched a program about escorts and trafficed girls in northern Ireland the other night. I would not wanna meet a girl that is forced into it so i wanna know if it possiable to tell the different? Every escort iv been with seems happy enough and seem willing to be there
LaBelleThatcher
05-12-12, 09:37
I shouldn't take everything you see on TV quite so seriously if I were you. It's usually clueless BS aimed at boosting ratings.
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 10:06
I meet escorts at least 3 times a month and did not even think thay might be forced to do it till i watched a program about escorts and trafficed girls in northern Ireland the other night. I would not wanna meet a girl that is forced into it so i wanna know if it possiable to tell the different? Every escort iv been with seems happy enough and seem willing to be there
If you met and was intimate with a lady who's been forced into the industry, the law would find you guilty of Rape so I'm not surprised by your concern.
Do research about the lady and look on other sites to see if she's advertised elsewhere too. 99% Independent's I know also use adultwork to advertise and some have had profiles on there for years.
If the lady answering the phone is not the lady you meet - ask why!
If the lady doesn't offer the services on her profile and seems clueless about what's on there - ask why!
If the lady is working in an apartment with a few others - be aware that you're in a brothel and they are illegal, regardless of whether the ladies are independent or not.
Reviews don't mean too much when it comes to indicating trafficking. There were ladies advertised on this site for a long time who were found to be involved upto their necks in organising prostitution and pimping other ladies.
We're all responsible for ourselves so don't allow your dick to keep you into a situation that your head is telling you is wrong. If you have doubt then do not go ahead with the appointment.
I shouldn't take everything you see on TV quite so seriously if I were you. It's usually clueless BS aimed at boosting ratings.
I don't think the programmes should be completely discounted. They alert people to the possibility of escorts working against their will. Granted, the situations are sensationalised but you can't just write off that some ladies are working against their will. Trafficking happens in every industry, the sex insdustry is a very lucrative place to put trafficked individuals due to return on investment.
LaBelleThatcher
05-12-12, 10:30
I don't think the programmes should be completely discounted. They alert people to the possibility of escorts working against their will. Granted, the situations are sensationalised but you can't just write off that some ladies are working against their will. Trafficking happens in every industry, the sex insdustry is a very lucrative place to put trafficked individuals due to return on investment.
I dunno, I have looked and looked at the whole thing and I am convinced that almost all of it is just heavily funded abolitionist propaganda...with the only exceptions being that somebody does something exceptional nasty everywhere sooner or later.
In a long life of falling over the strangest people and things I have never come across evidence of one single person who has been anything resembling coercively trafficked for any reason (I have come across a few, effectively coerced sex workers but always as part of very abusive personal relationship they had landed in). I have, however, come across an endless stream of propaganda, rumour and panicmongering aimed at imposing very dishonest and destructive political agenda on other people's lives.
I dunno, I have looked and looked at the whole thing and I am convinced that almost all of it is just heavily funded abolitionist propaganda...with the only exceptions being that somebody does something exceptional nasty everywhere sooner or later.
In a long life of falling over the strangest people and things I have never come across evidence of one single person who has been anything resembling coercively trafficked for any reason (I have come across a few, effectively coerced sex workers but always as part of very abusive personal relationship they had landed in). I have, however, come across an endless stream of propaganda, rumour and panicmongering aimed at imposing very dishonest and destructive political agenda on other people's lives.
Recently I was chatting with a client who told me about an experience which concerned him greatly. It had happened recently. There is very little doubt in my mind as to what was going on in the situation he described. It was made more worrying by his concern regarding the age of the girl that was literally pushed out of the door of the lounge to meet with him!!
I'm not surprised you have never come across anyone who was in a situation other than of their own free will. I haven't either. Why would we? It's the clients who are going to come into contact with any such ladies.
To insist that their are no ladies out there being trafficked or coerced is just as foolish as stating that no sex worker is ever working of their own free will.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 11:33
There is no way 100% sure of knowing an escort is truly independent by a internet research.
Is it coercing into prostitution? Yes. A very small % .. Do I know any escort in such situation? No. Did I ever come across with it? No.
The media will portrait the sex industry bad , they always did ... they will keep doing it. Why? Drama sells.
I am working for myself, on my own will and I have meet escorts in the same as myself. We are not invisible to the media ..we dont exist because doesnt suit their agenda.
In any moment a client feels the escort is not willing/happy to provide a service / to be working leave the premises ..
Not all ladies have a good English level , please bare that in mind. Doesnt mean they are forced into prostitution.
I recommend once more the use of pm system to ask reviewers about escorts. We can leave references to other ladies we have met as genuine.. That is important as well.
Sexy Sandy 69
05-12-12, 11:34
I'm not saying that there are no trafficked girls, however I've never met any nor do I know of any. Having said that the girls I know & socalise with tend to be mature, UK escorts. We all make our own accommodation arrangement, travel & alot of the truely independent girls, post on the forums here.
If you read a profile & the girl is young with basic English yet she's managed to come to a foreign country & found an apartment to work from, think about it. When I was 19/20 & I didn't know the language of a foreign country, I wouldn't have been able to go across there, find accommodation & set myself up working as an escort. If you guys turn up & something 'concerns' you about the girl or the set up operating, such as several girls working from the same premises, it's simple walk out. If you stay & pay money, you are only lining the pockets of someone else who's behind the operation.
Sandy x
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 11:42
I'm not saying that there are no trafficked girls, however I've never met any nor do I know of any. Having said that the girls I know & socalise with tend to be mature, UK escorts. We all make our own accommodation arrangement, travel & alot of the truely independent girls, post on the forums here.
If you read a profile & the girl is young with basic English yet she's managed to come to a foreign country & found an apartment to work from, think about it. When I was 19/20 & I didn't know the language of a foreign country, I wouldn't have been able to go across there, find accommodation & set myself up working as an escort. If you guys turn up & something 'concerns' you about the girl or the set up operating, such as several girls working from the same premises, it's simple walk out. If you stay & pay money, you are only lining the pockets of someone else who's behind the operation.
Sandy x
Are you saying those ladies are trafficked/coerced into prostitution?
There is no way 100% sure of knowing an escort is truly independent by a internet research.
Is it coercing into prostitution? Yes. A very small % .. Do I know any escort in such situation? No. Did I ever come across with it? No.
The media will portrait the sex industry bad , they always did ... they will keep doing it. Why? Drama sells.
I am working for myself, on my own will and I have meet escorts in the same as myself. We are not invisible to the media ..we dont exist because doesnt suit their agenda.
In any moment a client feels the escort is not willing/happy to provide a service / to be working leave the premises ..
Not all ladies have a good English level , please bare that in mind. Doesnt mean they are forced into prostitution.
I recommend once more the use of pm system to ask reviewers about escorts. We can leave references to other ladies we have met as genuine.. That is important as well.
I don't know if it's a small % or not. Do you? How? Unless you have met every sex worker, spoken to them and they have been truthful with you, how could you know?
As I said, the clients are more likely to meet the sex workers than we are. Until an official and fair study is performed, I'll keep an open mind.
My objection is to the official line that's been peddled that all sex workers are forced in some way. I know that one isn't true.
Sexy Sandy 69
05-12-12, 11:49
Are you saying those ladies are trafficked/coerced into prostitution?
No I'm not, what I'm saying is think about it. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have known where to start working abroad at such a young age with a basic knowledge of a foreign language. I dont know how these girls manage it either. If I was a guy & I was going to go to see these girls, I would be asking questions before I stayed.
Sandy x
Press and Media are the Communications Department, hope you got the point,lol...;)
I shouldn't take everything you see on TV quite so seriously if I were you. It's usually clueless BS aimed at boosting ratings.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 11:58
I don't know if it's a small % or not. Do you? How? Unless you have met every sex worker, spoken to them and they have been truthful with you, how could you know?
As I said, the clients are more likely to meet the sex workers than we are. Until an official and fair study is performed, I'll keep an open mind.
No, I havent met every sex worker neither did you.
On the last big raids , the police did met many of the sex workers in Ireland and even if it was a check up and not went for anyone in particular, they did not found any escort tied to the radiator ...
Were are the convictions on human trafficking for the last 2 -3 years?
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 11:59
Recently I was chatting with a client who told me about an experience which concerned him greatly. It had happened recently. There is very little doubt in my mind as to what was going on in the situation he described. It was made more worrying by his concern regarding the age of the girl that was literally pushed out of the door of the lounge to meet with him!!
I'm not surprised you have never come across anyone who was in a situation other than of their own free will. I haven't either. Why would we? It's the clients who are going to come into contact with any such ladies.
To insist that their are no ladies out there being trafficked or coerced is just as foolish as stating that no sex worker is ever working of their own free will.
I've had a few clients mention really alarming situations too - one client thought something was a 'really weird' and 'obviously not right' but didn't report it to the authorities when they 100% should have. I can't put into words how upsetting I find this. Considering there are many ways to make a report, including completely anonymously - why aren't clients doing so? Why don't they know the signs and doing something about it when they see them? Lets be honest here, any genuinely independent escort knows that they'll encounter the police/guards at some stage and if it takes for them to be knocking my door every day in order to save one single trafficked person, then that is fine. But I've realised that many clients simply do not give a shit about anything but fucking the next hot piece of ass they meet, regardless of whether she's actively willing or quite reluctant. It's all the same to many of them. It disgusts me.
Based on what you say (which I completely agree with) about clients being the only ones to meet possibly trafficked escorts, they need to be educated really quickly and possibly given operations to install a backbone.
I don't care how unpopular this might make me but I fully believe that if you're visiting agency escorts which are illegal in Ireland, then you're far more likely to encounter a trafficked person. Illegal activities usually go hand in hand. The fact that this site does fuck all to make the distinction between agency escort and independent escort is shocking and doing irreparable damage to the sex industry in this country. How on earth can a client make an informed decision who to meet when he's not given any clear facts at all?
As an Independent Sex Worker, but more importantly a human being, I beg clients to look at the bigger picture and start actively doing something about the 'weird' and 'not right' situations they find themselves in. A persons life may depend on you speaking out.
No I'm not, what I'm saying is think about it. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have known where to start working abroad at such a young age with a basic knowledge of a foreign language. I dont know how these girls manage it either. If I was a guy & I was going to go to see these girls, I would be asking questions before I stayed.
Sandy x
^^^^ What Sandy said, THINK ABOUT IT.
The guys we're expecting to think about don't seem to care for anything but their own needs. Asking them to consider the how's, why's and where's of the situation is seemingly asking too much.
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 12:02
No, I havent met every sex worker neither did you.
On the last big raids , the police did met many of the sex workers in Ireland and even if it was a check up and not went for anyone in particular, they did not found any escort tied to the radiator ...
Were are the convictions on human trafficking for the last 2 -3 years?
They need to be tied to a radiator to be trafficked/forced/coerced? You silly girl, stop talking such rubbish.
Convictions on human trafficking are so low as the country doesn't have the first clue how to deal with trafficking. There are 2 dedicated vice guards for the whole country and the government usually reacts to the 'there and then' political pressure from other countries and religious fanatics rather than monitor the situation as a whole over a longer time - something they'd need more rescources to do as it takes a lot of time, energy money and effort to do something about organised crime.
You spoke the point Sexy...Thumbs up ...:biggthumpup:
I'm not saying that there are no trafficked girls, however I've never met any nor do I know of any. Having said that the girls I know & socalise with tend to be mature, UK escorts. We all make our own accommodation arrangement, travel & alot of the truely independent girls, post on the forums here.
If you read a profile & the girl is young with basic English yet she's managed to come to a foreign country & found an apartment to work from, think about it. When I was 19/20 & I didn't know the language of a foreign country, I wouldn't have been able to go across there, find accommodation & set myself up working as an escort. If you guys turn up & something 'concerns' you about the girl or the set up operating, such as several girls working from the same premises, it's simple walk out. If you stay & pay money, you are only lining the pockets of someone else who's behind the operation.
Sandy x
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 12:06
No I'm not, what I'm saying is think about it. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have known where to start working abroad at such a young age with a basic knowledge of a foreign language. I dont know how these girls manage it either. If I was a guy & I was going to go to see these girls, I would be asking questions before I stayed.
Sandy x
I dont like to be asked who I share or how I started working in Ireland and so on. Dont you think that is just nosey??!!! I do .. Anyway...
At some stage were escort agencies advertising and they could help ladies, as I started ...
We arent alone in this world, we have friends , people we know and we get help from them as well..
Not speaking the language is not the issue and I believe we are brave enough to go aboard and try..
When I say "we" I mean escorts who arent native English..
Putting the foreign escorts in a bad light in the eyes of clients I dont think it is a good idea.
If ye as sex workers are only moaning ye are doing nothing better than the media ...
You stated you havent met any coerced escort yet you can state they are out there and by some criteria you want the clients to avoid/ask them questions ...
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 12:14
They need to be tied to a radiator to be trafficked/forced/coerced? You silly girl, stop talking such rubbish.
Convictions on human trafficking are so low as the country doesn't have the first clue how to deal with trafficking. There are 2 dedicated vice guards for the whole country and the government usually reacts to the 'there and then' political pressure from other countries and religious fanatics rather than monitor the situation as a whole over a longer time - something they'd need more rescources to do as it takes a lot of time, energy money and effort to do something about organised crime.
I am entitled to an opinion as you are. If you think is rubbish, is your view ..
If the country doesnt have a clue how to deal with trafficking , maybe you can complain to the Gov about it and ask them to do something about the whole huge trafficking going on in Ireland as seems to be a huge concern ... soo many young foreign ladies with no English working on here...
I did shared with lots of foreign escorts and none was forced into prostitution and working against her will. With how many did you shared? With how many did you speak in person?
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 12:31
I am entitled to an opinion as you are. If you think is rubbish, is your view ..
If the country doesnt have a clue how to deal with trafficking , maybe you can complain to the Gov about it and ask them to do something about the whole huge trafficking going on in Ireland as seems to be a huge concern ... soo many young foreign ladies with no English working on here...
I did shared with lots of foreign escorts and none was forced into prostitution and working against her will. With how many did you shared? With how many did you speak in person?
Do you think the only way to force someone is to physically tie them up? Or chain them to a radiator? It is not. I've met escorts who were trafficked and they were in fear for their lives and the lives of their family if they spoke out against the traffickers. They weren't tied up, they were mentally tortured and tormented into believing they couldn't leave. I helped to raise funds so that a lady we knew could buy out of the situation she was in - she was put there and controlled by traffickers btw. The ones you claim don't exist.
The government? As I said before, they have neither the funds nor the manpower to adress the problem - so they panic and try to criminalise it. Yes, the government are really doing well on this one.
I've worked in the sex industry for long enough to know it's not all fine and dandy, my eyes are wide open to the exploitation that occurs and to the manipulation too ;)
You were working for agencies in Ireland Rachel, you were not independent so I'm not surprised you've shared more times here than I have. But do not for one second assume that my knowledge of the escort industry in Ireland is limited to how REAL Independents operate. I have friends in UK who came and worked for agencies in Ireland as far back as 2000. They were robbed, they were raped and they were terrorised if they left without prior permission. These same agencies that you chose to sing the praises of. The very same ones.
So do me a favour, don't act like it's all a lovely place when you know that it isn't. Your ignorance is extremely selective. In other words, I don't believe that you've never shared with a trafficked escort. Whether you knew it or not is an entirely different matter. These ladies live in fear so not necessarily going to be vocal about how they really got to Ireland etc.
No, I havent met every sex worker neither did you.
On the last big raids , the police did met many of the sex workers in Ireland and even if it was a check up and not went for anyone in particular, they did not found any escort tied to the radiator ...
Were are the convictions on human trafficking for the last 2 -3 years?
As I said, the clients are more likely to meet the sex workers than we are. Until an official and fair study is performed, I'll keep an open mind.
One could also ask where are the figures on how many sex workers are independent.
Nicole, Patricia and I watched a documentary last week called Nefarious: Merchant of Souls (http://nefariousdocumentary.com/the-films/nefarious-i/); a documentary on the Global trafficking issues. This documentary was written and presented by Benjamin Nolot of Christian missionary group 'Exodus Cry', and the crew travel to Global trafficking hotspots to film these issues. Nolot wanted to show that trafficking is a form of modern day slavery, of which I do agree with, however the concept was focusing on the point Nolot was trying to make, which was that 'trafficking' is not just coercion, but even those that volunteer into the industry are 'trafficking their souls', of which I thought was complete poppycock.
First of all, Nolot travelled to Romania. Although there was no actual filmed evidence of coercion, he interviewed an ex-prostitute that was forced into the industry. She said trafficking is a professionally organised crime and that there were different methods used to force girls into the sex industry; a) 'employers' tell the girls that they have model/waitress jobs for them in a different country, and when they arrive, are pushed into sex work, b) one of these criminals would 'romance' a girl, tell her that they are in love and then eventually pretend to be broke and convince her to work in the sex industry or c) should the first two methods fail, these criminals would physically abduct the girl. Whatever the method, these girls would be locked into a small room with only beds to sleep on and beaten regularly until there spirits were broke and they are only a shell of their former selves. Organised criminals then put these girls on a 'cat walk', so that they can be bought by other organised criminals. These girls are told to strip and the buyers can 'test the merchandise'. Once bought, they are a criminal commodity.
As if that wasn't bad enough, these organised criminals can easily transport these women at the borders, because there are government officials actually paid to allow them through. It is a highly organised crime, and it made me think, "This should really be the starting point to nip this in the bud!" Absolutely shocking!
Nolot then moves to the poverty stricken regions of Cambodia, where girls are actually sold into the sex industry.... by their parents! According to Nolot, 10% of the Cambodian population is sold into the sex trade. These girls work in 'karaoke bars' and clients can buy a beer for around $5 and have sex with one of the girls for $3! One of the crew from the missionary paid to go into a room with a couple of these girls and told them that they can take them to a better place where they wouldn't have to have sex with people for money. The girls said that they will have to ask their mothers. The crew said that they did go to the parents' address and were told no, because that family would have no income. It was said that when a mother gives birth to a girl, the family are blessed because they have potential income should times be hard.
Nolot and crew also visited Sweden to discuss the Swedish model and spoke to Kajsa Wahlberg, Detective Inspector of Stockholm police (who was in the BBC NI Spotlight programme the other day). She praised the success of the Swedish model and its reductions of trafficking in Sweden, adding that "...men need to learn to control their urges. They are just masturbating in women." The group also travelled to Amsterdam where they interviewed a window prostitute. She said that she was also coerced into the sex industry, regardless of the legal brothel laws in the city. She showed Nolot the room that she works in, and on the wall next to the bed, there is a panic alarm that she can hit just in case there is any trouble. A legal brothel keeper was questioned about this panic button after he assured Nolot that his girls are safe, to which he didn't really answer as Nolot brought up the subject of a prostitute stabbing only days before in a brothel a few days before.
Nolot then travelled to Las Vegas to talk to two prostitutes that went into the sex industry voluntarily for the riches and the glamour. Everything was great for them until they were attacked, raped and robbed, and they described the horrors they had to endure as a sex worker. These women both managed to get out of the sex industry, however it was noted that one of these women did return to working as a sex worker shortly afterwards. Nolot made a point that hundreds and thousands of dollars are spent on non-government organisations to help victims of sex work leave the industry, however, most of these people revert back into the industry. At this point, just when Nolot had started selling his point, everyone involved in the documentary, from an ex-trafficker, to prostitutes to members of the missionary, all started to preach that the only way to save these souls is to pray to the Lord, to find God in our hearts, and this is the only real salvation!
We cannot turn a blind-eye to trafficking; it does go on and probably more than we know, but I don't think arresting clients is a form of 'bombing the supply routes'. I can understand that in theory, it might put a percentage of clients off, but realistically, it will not stop the demand for supply. The problem is that there are different laws in each country, so these organised criminals will do anything to circumvent the law in order to make a lot of money very quickly. In my opinion, the law needs to come to terms with the fact the sex is an innate instinct and this will not go away. It should be regulated so that people can be safe and work on their own free will, and the traffickers, the REAL criminals need to be targeted.
Has anyone else seen this documentary?
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 12:48
Has anyone else seen this documentary?
Yes I saw it.
But rather than defer from trafficking in Ireland, I'd like to ask why EI are allowing agency profiles to be advertised as Independent when they are not? These agencies are part of organised crime rings. The site is not only condoning the agencies which are illegal but is their vehicle for their 'goods'. This site is where most adverts for escorts in Ireland are held, why don't you do more about the fake advertisers? The adverts wouldn't be there to reel the clients in if a responsible approach was taken when someone submits an advert.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 12:51
Do you think the only way to force someone is to physically tie them up? Or chain them to a radiator? It is not. I've met escorts who were trafficked and they were in fear for their lives and the lives of their family if they spoke out against the traffickers. They weren't tied up, they were mentally tortured and tormented into believing they couldn't leave. I helped to raise funds so that a lady we knew could buy out of the situation she was in - she was put there and controlled by traffickers btw. The ones you claim don't exist.
The government? As I said before, they have neither the funds nor the manpower to adress the problem - so they panic and try to criminalise it. Yes, the government are really doing well on this one.
I've worked in the sex industry for long enough to know it's not all fine and dandy, my eyes are wide open to the exploitation that occurs and to the manipulation too ;)
You were working for agencies in Ireland Rachel, you were not independent so I'm not surprised you've shared more times here than I have. But do not for one second assume that my knowledge of the escort industry in Ireland is limited to how REAL Independents operate. I have friends in UK who came and worked for agencies in Ireland as far back as 2000. They were robbed, they were raped and they were terrorised if they left without prior permission. These same agencies that you chose to sing the praises of. The very same ones.
So do me a favour, don't act like it's all a lovely place when you know that it isn't. Your ignorance is extremely selective. In other words, I don't believe that you've never shared with a trafficked escort. Whether you knew it or not is an entirely different matter. These ladies live in fear so not necessarily going to be vocal about how they really got to Ireland etc.
We all have stories to tell, no doubt about it.
I never said the human trafficking doesnt exists .. Did I?
I dont agree with the "foreign escorts , young, little English" are to avoid/ asked questions .. By that criteria only native English and over 25 yrs are to see and not trafficked?!!!:rolleyes:
Shared apartments this year and last year, working for myself on my own will .. no agency involved whatsoever ...
None of the ladies, I mean none seemed to me to have fear for their life ,nor were threatened over the phone or in person by anyone .. One day, two but a week in enough time to ask for help if any of them need it...
Being a native English I doubt you know what is to go aboard in a foreign country you do not speak the language , how to manage yourself at the start in sex industry..
As much you say agencies did this and that , I still believe are a good help for the new escorts ..
The past is there and we can not change it, yet we do not do much for the future ...
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 12:53
As I said, the clients are more likely to meet the sex workers than we are. Until an official and fair study is performed, I'll keep an open mind.
One could also ask where are the figures on how many sex workers are independent.
Take for example the last big raids ...
Yes I saw it.
But rather than defer from trafficking in Ireland, I'd like to ask why EI are allowing agency profiles to be advertised as Independent when they are not? These agencies are part of organised crime rings. The site is not only condoning the agencies which are illegal but is their vehicle for their 'goods'. This site is where most adverts for escorts in Ireland are held, why don't you do more about the fake advertisers? The adverts wouldn't be there to reel the clients in if a responsible approach was taken when someone submits an advert.
You are making two big assumptions: a) you expect E-I to know who is agency and independent and b) you are assuming that agencies are responsible for promoting trafficked sex workers. If agencies are illegal, why do some independent escorts have people acting as agents on their behalf?
LaBelleThatcher
05-12-12, 12:57
I'm not surprised you have never come across anyone who was in a situation other than of their own free will. I haven't either. Why would we? It's the clients who are going to come into contact with any such ladies.
I don't mean as a sex worker Heather, but I have had a very varied life been in all the right places, sooner or later, to see evidence of trafficking and commercialised coercion if it was really there...(except in the same sense that serial murder is really there.)
It's a horrible sort of propaganda and never mind being used as an excuse to persecute sex workers, the real problems are being buried under all the mass hysteria.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 13:00
Yes I saw it.
But rather than defer from trafficking in Ireland, I'd like to ask why EI are allowing agency profiles to be advertised as Independent when they are not? These agencies are part of organised crime rings. The site is not only condoning the agencies which are illegal but is their vehicle for their 'goods'. This site is where most adverts for escorts in Ireland are held, why don't you do more about the fake advertisers? The adverts wouldn't be there to reel the clients in if a responsible approach was taken when someone submits an advert.
How is suppose E-I to stop agencies to advertise the escorts as indies?
Putting down an profile, the next day a new one is up and so on..
EnglishAlex
05-12-12, 13:03
You are making two big assumptions: a) you expect E-I to know who is agency and independent and b) you are assuming that agencies are responsible for promoting trafficked sex workers. If agencies are illegal, why do some independent escorts have people acting as agents on their behalf?
Forgive me sam, but when I see a phone number passed from pillar to post, a group of 5 escorts travelling in tandem from donegal to kerry and read reviews about there being a selection of escorts and someone knocking on the door when time is up - I kind of assume EI have a lot more info than the average person making an appointment but don't act on it. Lets be honest here, the revenue from 5 independent profiles is a lot more than that from an escort agency so it's not in the interest of E-Designers Ltd to make an active effort. Quite the opposite in fact.
Handing over a percentage of your earnings to an agent is entirely different to employing someone. There is no IF, agencies in Ireland are illegal unless the law has changed very recently.
I'm not getting into it further as this is organised crime I'm publicly discussing and those people aren't really happy being the topic of conversation. So for my health, I have nothing more to say on the matter.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 13:14
Forgive me sam, but when I see a phone number passed from pillar to post, a group of 5 escorts travelling in tandem from donegal to kerry and read reviews about there being a selection of escorts and someone knocking on the door when time is up - I kind of assume EI have a lot more info than the average person making an appointment but don't act on it. Lets be honest here, the revenue from 5 independent profiles is a lot more than that from an escort agency so it's not in the interest of E-Designers Ltd to make an active effort. Quite the opposite in fact.
Handing over a percentage of your earnings to an agent is entirely different to employing someone. There is no IF, agencies in Ireland are illegal unless the law has changed very recently.
I'm not getting into it further as this is organised crime I'm publicly discussing and those people aren't really happy being the topic of conversation. So for my health, I have nothing more to say on the matter.
Could be 5 friends and to take action (whatever action that will be) based only on those facts in not right.
The police could stay all day monitoring profiles and reviews and if your criteria would be right they would ve taken action based on it .. but is far from reliable ...
Ted E Bear
05-12-12, 13:40
....... But I've realised that many clients simply do not give a shit about anything but fucking the next hot piece of ass they meet, regardless of whether she's actively willing or quite reluctant. It's all the same to many of them. It disgusts me.
...........
From what I've read and seen on forums this is probably the most accurate statement I've read and as a man it disgusts me also.
They seem to put no effort into research other than pics and phone numbers.
Forgive me sam, but when I see a phone number passed from pillar to post, a group of 5 escorts travelling in tandem from donegal to kerry and read reviews about there being a selection of escorts and someone knocking on the door when time is up - I kind of assume EI have a lot more info than the average person making an appointment but don't act on it. Lets be honest here, the revenue from 5 independent profiles is a lot more than that from an escort agency so it's not in the interest of E-Designers Ltd to make an active effort. Quite the opposite in fact.
Handing over a percentage of your earnings to an agent is entirely different to employing someone. There is no IF, agencies in Ireland are illegal unless the law has changed very recently.
I'm not getting into it further as this is organised crime I'm publicly discussing and those people aren't really happy being the topic of conversation. So for my health, I have nothing more to say on the matter.
I do appreciate that you don't want to continue to discuss this for your health, but if that is the case, why provoke the debate? I do agree that there is a difference between handing over a percentage of cash to an employer and hiring someone to do a service, but in the eyes of the law, there isn't any difference.
I don't mean as a sex worker Heather, but I have had a very varied life been in all the right places, sooner or later, to see evidence of trafficking and commercialised coercion if it was really there...(except in the same sense that serial murder is really there.)
It's a horrible sort of propaganda and never mind being used as an excuse to persecute sex workers, the real problems are being buried under all the mass hysteria.
Things are always sensationalised in the media. However, by very nature of the fact that most forced sex workers are going to be hidden away from everyone except clients, I'm not convinced that if forced sex workers are out there, you would have met them.
Jack in the Box
05-12-12, 14:03
A very important issue was brought up in this thread. It is the case that there ARE sex workers forced, abused and bullied as well as there are ones that are not.
Clients need to make it their business to ensure that they are not supporting the intimidation or forcing of an escort. Some warning signs were described in this thread. If in doubt leave and report situations. If it helps confidential phones lines for example should be publicised.
Every human being is entitled not to be bullied, intimidated or raped. Also if clients don’t take this seriously they are playing into the hands of people who want them to fail.
Also as I’ve said before in threads other parties such as Escort Ireland need to have zero tolerance for any form of trafficking or exploitation and to listen to any feedback that sex workers are giving. It is the just and right thing to do and the low hanging fruit in the campaign against TOTRL. In that way all involved fairly in sex work can be a winner.
A very important issue was brought up in this thread. It is the case that there ARE sex workers forced, abused and bullied as well as there are ones that are not.
Clients need to make it their business to ensure that they are not supporting the intimidation or forcing of an escort. Some warning signs were described in this thread. If in doubt leave and report situations. If it helps confidential phones lines for example should be publicised.
Every human being is entitled not to be bullied, intimidated or raped. Also if clients don’t take this seriously they are playing into the hands of people who want them to fail.
Also as I’ve said before in threads other parties such as Escort Ireland need to have zero tolerance for any form of trafficking or exploitation and to listen to any feedback that sex workers are giving. It is the just and right thing to do and the low hanging fruit in the campaign against TOTRL. In that way all involved fairly in sex work can be a winner.
If more clients had done the right thing maybe they wouldn't be looking at criminalisation now.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 14:13
From what I've read and seen on forums this is probably the most accurate statement I've read and as a man it disgusts me also.
They seem to put no effort into research other than pics and phone numbers.
What info on human trafficking would you get from phone numbers and pictures?
How accurate that info will be?
Lets say you get something valid ... what about the errors you will get as well?
LaBelleThatcher
05-12-12, 14:22
Things are always sensationalised in the media. However, by very nature of the fact that most forced sex workers are going to be hidden away from everyone except clients, I'm not convinced that if forced sex workers are out there, you would have met them.
I am not convinced I would have met them myself, but I would have come across SOME hard evidence sooner or later...and I haven't...
But I have come across almost endless evidence of deliberate panicmongering with alterior motives.
Of course there are sex workers in situations where they need help to rescue themselves, but any I have ever seen were on very personal terms.
The "trafficking epidemic" is part mythical bogeyman (agenda for the pursuit of), and, partly, more sinisterly, a covert outlet for the growing xenophobia that is an inevitable by product of a period of reactionary ascendency and a global recession.
I do appreciate that you don't want to continue to discuss this for your health, but if that is the case, why provoke the debate?
Should everyone just live in fear and shut up then?
These ladies don't have a voice and THAT is why this dirty business flourishes.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 14:45
Should everyone just live in fear and shut up then?
These ladies don't have a voice and THAT is why this dirty business flourishes.
Is it Alex forced to post or to stop doing it other than on her own will?!
Be the dont go and see foreign young escorts because they might be trafficked is hard for them to voice anything .... In fact other escorts voice against them and no, not helping them whatsoever ...
Should everyone just live in fear and shut up then?
These ladies don't have a voice and THAT is why this dirty business flourishes.
That's not actually what I am saying, but fair do's.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 15:09
Is it Alex forced to post or to stop doing it other than on her own will?!
Be the dont go and see foreign young escorts because they might be trafficked is hard for them to voice anything .... In fact other escorts voice against them and no, not helping them whatsoever ...
"By the dont ...." my mistake ...
Is it Alex forced to post or to stop doing it other than on her own will?!
Be the dont go and see foreign young escorts because they might be trafficked is hard for them to voice anything .... In fact other escorts voice against them and no, not helping them whatsoever ...
Not once have I mentioned foreign escorts. Take up your issues with the right people.
Clients will NEVER know for shure if a lady is forced ( physically or otherwise pressured into the job ) !
There are points to determent the risk that she MIGHT be , age , english skills ,nationality , working hours or connected profils , not answering her phone by herself and so on , in combination with each other !
If a client has doubts he should choose somebody else , simple !
And yes , young foreign girls who dont speak english , I see as a bigger risk that they might be coerced into the job for the obviouse reasons all mentioned before !
I have traveled and worked as an escort in many countries and for many years and have encountered a few sitiuations where it was crystal clear that something was wrong with a girl working , just because you dont see bruises or chackels or because she assures you she is fine , doesnt mean she is !
I always tried to offer help , but lets face it, most trafficked girls are conditioned NOT to talk to anybody about whats going on !
Its not without a risk to try and help and I have been in some hairy situations because I refused to look away and sometimes even authorities can not help if the girl is not talking and there is no evidence to be fine !
Its horrible to see a girl disapeare after an investigation failed , a holidaytrip with a no return ticket for her , I often think about her and pray she is fine
!
If men would think twice in a sitiuation where they have a doughy feeling it might help to alert authorities , looking away and do nothing makes them partly responsible for the pain and eventually death that girl might indure!
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 16:46
How can a client be sure a native English escort is not coerced into prostitution?
She can do her own phone , working long hours and profile connected to many others ...
Lets see how that connection is done as well , as for buying a sim card in the same shop I just bought one, means nothing..
Mairead curvyirishlady
05-12-12, 16:55
No, I havent met every sex worker neither did you.
On the last big raids , the police did met many of the sex workers in Ireland and even if it was a check up and not went for anyone in particular, they did not found any escort tied to the radiator ...
Were are the convictions on human trafficking for the last 2 -3 years?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11175030
http://www.u.tv/News/Two-extradited-to-NI-over-trafficking/76265958-36a0-4875-b8b8-173bfa1b2b7e
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18733655
http://www.u.tv/news/First-man-jailed-for-trafficking-in-NI/edc86d91-e00e-48de-adc2-ae466fb9e1d2
just a few links
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:00
http://www.u.tv/news/First-man-jailed-for-trafficking-in-NI/edc86d91-e00e-48de-adc2-ae466fb9e1d2
""The 38-year-old arranged for two women to come to Belfast through Dublin airport to work as prostitutes.
The women said they asked the Pis to book their air tickets, and he provided them with an apartment in Belfast.
They would then be advertised on the internet as escorts to pay back the rent for their apartment and their travelling expenses.
Judge Burgess said the women were not being held against their will""
They werent forced into prostitution and didnt worked against their own will ..
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:11
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18733655
""Chen, who is originally from China, was at the centre of the activity, running five brothels in Belfast, Newry and Londonderry and duped Chinese women into travelling over to Northern Ireland.
She placed advertisements in English newspapers offering work as nannies and cleaners at £220 a week, but then forced the women to work as prostitutes when they arrived.""
Again North of Ireland , as in the 4 articles has been posted.
The use of word "forced" it is used...
In the article it is pointed out as well the advertising of those trafficked ladies was on newspapers ...
How can a client be sure a native English escort is not coerced into prostitution?
She can do her own phone , working long hours and profile connected to many others ...
Lets see how that connection is done as well , as for buying a sim card in the same shop I just bought one, means nothing..
He cant be shure for certain , thats what I am saying , but the chance that she is is definetly lower !
And I was also saying " in a combination " .
And how has a connection between profils to do with sim cards ?
Please , read the words and understand them as they are said / writen !
We all know by now that you are not willing to see the points we are making as valued , but at least aknowledge that you are not able to draw from long time experience as alot of us can !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18733655
""Chen, who is originally from China, was at the centre of the activity, running five brothels in Belfast, Newry and Londonderry and duped Chinese women into travelling over to Northern Ireland.
She placed advertisements in English newspapers offering work as nannies and cleaners at £220 a week, but then forced the women to work as prostitutes when they arrived.""
Again North of Ireland , as in the 4 articles has been posted.
The use of word "forced" it is used...
In the article it is pointed out as well the advertising of those trafficked ladies was on newspapers ...
And your point is ?
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:19
He is expected to appear at Newry Magistrates' Court on Friday morning and is also facing charges of rape and indecent assault.
The extradition order came in relation to an incident in Armagh in August 2006, over which three men have already appeared in court.
A 23-year-old man, still being held in Lithuania, is awaiting extradition.
http://www.u.tv/News/Two-extradited-to-NI-over-trafficking/76265958-36a0-4875-b8b8-173bfa1b2b7e
A 26-year-old man has been arrested and extradited to Northern Ireland from Lithuania over alleged human trafficking, police have said.
...No details whatsoever on the trafficking
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:23
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11175030
Police said its objective was "to recover victims, both UK and foreign nationals" who have been trafficked for sexual exploitation.
In all 16 properties were searched across the UK by a number of police forces and three people detained. These included seven suspected brothels in Belfast.
...Police can arrest 2 indies sharing , is criminal in the eyes of the law.
He is expected to appear at Newry Magistrates' Court on Friday morning and is also facing charges of rape and indecent assault.
The extradition order came in relation to an incident in Armagh in August 2006, over which three men have already appeared in court.
A 23-year-old man, still being held in Lithuania, is awaiting extradition.
http://www.u.tv/News/Two-extradited-to-NI-over-trafficking/76265958-36a0-4875-b8b8-173bfa1b2b7e
A 26-year-old man has been arrested and extradited to Northern Ireland from Lithuania over alleged human trafficking, police have said.
...No details whatsoever on the trafficking
What s the point ? That because they cant convict them for trafficking , it didnt happen ? And all the ladies where here on free will , ready to be beaten and abused ?
REALLY ?!
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:26
He cant be shure for certain , thats what I am saying , but the chance that she is is definetly lower !
And I was also saying " in a combination " .
And how has a connection between profils to do with sim cards ?
Please , read the words and understand them as they are said / writen !
We all know by now that you are not willing to see the points we are making as valued , but at least aknowledge that you are not able to draw from long time experience as alot of us can !
So far that possibility of native English to be coerced into prostitution wasnt mentioned.
The sim card was an example , maybe you can come up with a better example. If so, please do.
I understand perfectly where you are coming from and no, I dont agree with the majority of stuff you post.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:32
What s the point ? That because they cant convict them for trafficking , it didnt happen ? And all the ladies where here on free will , ready to be beaten and abused ?
REALLY ?!
Nobody is ready to be abused first of all.
Not me, you or the client who should do justice, is the police who has that power...
Customers are asked to report anything they suspect to be coercing ..
Please note that if anyone does suspect an escort is coerced, this can be reported anonymously:
https://www.escort-ireland.com/trafficking/
So far that possibility of native English to be coerced into prostitution wasnt mentioned.
The sim card was an example , maybe you can come up with a better example. If so, please do.
I understand perfectly where you are coming from and no, I dont agree with the majority of stuff you post.
The possibility of a native english speakers is MUCH lower to be coerced then non english speakers for certain , but it was never denied !
When the same profiles rotate in certain patterns its much likely that they are connected ...
I sincerly doubt you understand where I am coming from or you are very good in playing the naive girly girl .
I would be utterly suprised if you would start to agree with majority of my posts :p
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:41
The possibility of a native english speakers is MUCH lower to be coerced then non english speakers for certain , but it was never denied !
When the same profiles rotate in certain patterns its much likely that they are connected ...
I sincerly doubt you understand where I am coming from or you are very good in playing the naive girly girl .
I would be utterly suprised if you would start to agree with majority of my posts :p
Far from naive ..
So, actually we speak on possibilities here ... Good!
I travel with an escort, we know two escorts who have apartment in Limerick and those ladies know someone in Cork.. For 2 months we exchange apartments , rotate in between .. That from your point of you will be we are trafficked / coerced into prostitution...
There is another possibility ..
Nobody is ready to be abused first of all.
Not me, you or the client who should do justice, is the police who has that power...
Customers are asked to report anything they suspect to be coercing ..
So why are you posting links that sound like all the ladies knew what they gotten themself into ?
In the case of the Chen lady she coerced foreign ladies with ads in the paper for nanny jobs and alike ! Thats out of context of with the point you where trying to make then .
Far from naive ..
So, actually we speak on possibilities here ... Good!
I travel with an escort, we know two escorts who have apartment in Limerick and those ladies know someone in Cork.. For 2 months we exchange apartments , rotate in between .. That from your point of you will be we are trafficked / coerced into prostitution...
There is another possibility ..
I actually said "playing " naive .
And I am out of this discussion , cause it has no point to discusse with you !
You seem to have the ultimate knowledge about how this industry works , after some few year in 1 country ,wow , makes one wonder ...
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:48
So why are you posting links that sound like all the ladies knew what they gotten themself into ?
In the case of the Chen lady she coerced foreign ladies with ads in the paper for nanny jobs and alike ! Thats out of context of with the point you where trying to make then .
If you read back, wasnt me to post those links in the first place.
I think we should report those newspapers for fake ads .. what you think?
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 17:53
I actually said "playing " naive .
And I am out of this discussion , cause it has no point to discusse with you !
You seem to have the ultimate knowledge about how this industry works , after some few year in 1 country ,wow , makes one wonder ...
I am questioning your posts and expect a good explanation back , because I am sure you know more than me, so I can learn more than the little knowledge I have at the moment.
People who arent involved themselves directly in prostitution give their opinion.. Why wouldnt I as an active escort?
Fine with me if you want to leave it at this.. Thank you for your interesting posts..
No you dont , you try to force your opinion down peoples throat , not all of us are turning a blind eye or are not able to see ( lack of info ) to what you are trying to do !
And please dont patronise me , nobody is bying it !
Mairead curvyirishlady
05-12-12, 18:41
I posted the links - not to have an argument or score points, just to show that there have been convictions for trafficking in Northern Ireland recently.
Mr Pis was convicted under the trafficking legislation. Although the women in the case said they were not held against their will, the judge mentioned Mr Pis' active involvement in their prostitution and level of financial gain in sentencing him.
He did plead guilty to trafficking 2 persons into the uk for the purposes of sexual exploitation
http://ec.europa.eu/anti-trafficking/download.action;jsessionid=cyqRQXZbj2lmTTjLQJnLhJQszKv92Xx4zx8Sqf5FZHWnsm8yN4jK! 134714294?nodeId=3888d85e-5744-4873-9c83-c8b20e55a36b&fileName=Queen+-v-+Matyas+Pis.pdf
The incident referred to in Armagh involved a woman who was abducted and held for 28 hours during which time she was beaten and gang raped by a number of Lithuanian men and was quite widely reported .
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/1635k-or-remain-our-sex-slave-13906622.html?service=Print
We are very familiar in Northern Ireland with a culture where organised paramilitary gangs operate within local communities. Historically its common knowledge that on both sides they have been involved in controlling prostitution/ drugs /money laundering and the list is endless. How can you ask people to give evidence against these gangs when their families lives would be put at risk? To quote a well known local politician " they havent gone away you know"
The same goes for these other gangs that operate from Asia, Africa and Europe into Ireland and Northern Ireland.
All I can do is hope that the systems and networks will be put in place so that victims will be supported and the offenders punished effectively.
Disco Biscuit
05-12-12, 20:25
Can I ask a question?
Something I'm always curious about when I see these types of threads.
Is it only victims of sex trafficking we should be concerned about? Are the other types of trafficking not important once it's not people being forced to work as escorts against their will?
Take the drugs biz for instance.
There have been a few threads going back the last 6 months or so about escorts who take recreational drugs or when you arrive for appointments and the escort is clearly under the influence or something. (I can't be arsed looking for the relevant links at the moment). I think some escorts did have the backbone to say "yeah, i like the odd spliff or line of coke now and again"
But I seem to recall at the time when these threads were posted, that escorts said what they did in their own free time was nobody's business and clients shouldn't be poking their noses in, which is fair enough.
But I'm wondering, for those escorts here pontificating about trafficked girls and taking the moral high ground (and this obviously only applies to those escorts who like to indulge in recreational drug use) and telling clients to get a backbone, what is the difference between someone who has been enslaved, trafficked and forced to work as drug mule so you can have your lines of coke, pop your pills and smoke your spliffs and someone who has been trafficked into prostitution?
Isn't it bascially the same thing? Someone from South America or Afghanistan who has had their little farm seized by drug cartels for cocoa or poppy plantations, someone who's family have been threatened unless they work as drug mule, people who are kidnapped and forced to do these things or worse again, the thousands of people who are murdered every year, all so people can get high on the weekend for the laugh?
Are you not just as guilty of trafficking like the pimps who traffic girls? Kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me.
Obviously, like I said, that only applies to those escorts who indulge in recreational drug use and isn't intended to offend those who have never touched drugs.
Can I ask a question?
Something I'm always curious about when I see these types of threads.
Is it only victims of sex trafficking we should be concerned about? Are the other types of trafficking not important once it's not people being forced to work as escorts against their will?
Take the drugs biz for instance.
There have been a few threads going back the last 6 months or so about escorts who take recreational drugs or when you arrive for appointments and the escort is clearly under the influence or something. (I can't be arsed looking for the relevant links at the moment). I think some escorts did have the backbone to say "yeah, i like the odd spliff or line of coke now and again"
But I seem to recall at the time when these threads were posted, that escorts said what they did in their own free time was nobody's business and clients shouldn't be poking their noses in, which is fair enough.
But I'm wondering, for those escorts here pontificating about trafficked girls and taking the moral high ground (and this obviously only applies to those escorts who like to indulge in recreational drug use) and telling clients to get a backbone, what is the difference between someone who has been enslaved, trafficked and forced to work as drug mule so you can have your lines of coke, pop your pills and smoke your spliffs and someone who has been trafficked into prostitution?
Isn't it bascially the same thing? Someone from South America or Afghanistan who has had their little farm seized by drug cartels for cocoa or poppy plantations, someone who's family have been threatened unless they work as drug mule, people who are kidnapped and forced to do these things or worse again, the thousands of people who are murdered every year, all so people can get high on the weekend for the laugh?
Are you not just as guilty of trafficking like the pimps who traffic girls? Kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me.
Obviously, like I said, that only applies to those escorts who indulge in recreational drug use and isn't intended to offend those who have never touched drugs.
you make a really valid point, but I think that seeing as this is an escort website it's probably best to stick to things that effect escorting, sure there are too many problems in the world for us to solve all of them.
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 20:57
I posted the links - not to have an argument or score points, just to show that there have been convictions for trafficking in Northern Ireland recently.
Mr Pis was convicted under the trafficking legislation. Although the women in the case said they were not held against their will, the judge mentioned Mr Pis' active involvement in their prostitution and level of financial gain in sentencing him.
He did plead guilty to trafficking 2 persons into the uk for the purposes of sexual exploitation
http://ec.europa.eu/anti-trafficking/download.action;jsessionid=cyqRQXZbj2lmTTjLQJnLhJQszKv92Xx4zx8Sqf5FZHWnsm8yN4jK! 134714294?nodeId=3888d85e-5744-4873-9c83-c8b20e55a36b&fileName=Queen+-v-+Matyas+Pis.pdf
The incident referred to in Armagh involved a woman who was abducted and held for 28 hours during which time she was beaten and gang raped by a number of Lithuanian men and was quite widely reported .
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/1635k-or-remain-our-sex-slave-13906622.html?service=Print
We are very familiar in Northern Ireland with a culture where organised paramilitary gangs operate within local communities. Historically its common knowledge that on both sides they have been involved in controlling prostitution/ drugs /money laundering and the list is endless. How can you ask people to give evidence against these gangs when their families lives would be put at risk? To quote a well known local politician " they havent gone away you know"
The same goes for these other gangs that operate from Asia, Africa and Europe into Ireland and Northern Ireland.
All I can do is hope that the systems and networks will be put in place so that victims will be supported and the offenders punished effectively.
If a client rings the police (the ones are hand in hand with those gangs) explain them his concern over a potential coerced escort , I think he will be in more troubles than the girl... and the fella s family ..
Rachel Divine
05-12-12, 20:59
you make a really valid point, but I think that seeing as this is an escort website it's probably best to stick to things that effect escorting, sure there are too many problems in the world for us to solve all of them.
Escorts using drugs and or alcohol has to do with escorting and as an escort website/forum why not talk about it?
Is it taboo subject?
Disco Biscuit
05-12-12, 21:18
you make a really valid point, but I think that seeing as this is an escort website it's probably best to stick to things that effect escorting, sure there are too many problems in the world for us to solve all of them.
I get what you're saying and im not trying to deflect the thread to another of the worlds problems, but to me trafficking is trafficking, whether it's prostitution or not. It's more the double standards expressed by certain posters here that is quite staggering when they are just as guilty of another form of trafficking as pimps, but it appears that isnt as important or they are less guilty than clients because it's not prostitutes they are trafficking.
Escorts using drugs and or alcohol has to do with escorting and as an escort website/forum why not talk about it?
Is it taboo subject?
The reason a forum has separate threads is to keep certain things on topic. I suppose you could always start a new thread about drug abuse in escorts. As for it being a taboo subject I suppose that's up to the forum moderators and other escorts.
I get what you're saying and im not trying to deflect the thread to another of the worlds problems, but to me trafficking is trafficking, whether it's prostitution or not. It's more the double standards expressed by certain posters here that is quite staggering when they are just as guilty of another form of trafficking as pimps, but it appears that isnt as important or they are less guilty than clients because it's not prostitutes they are trafficking.
I completely agree with what you are saying about trafficking and no one should be subjected to torture be it physical or mental for someones else's gratification (unless it's BDSM ;) ), so yes, people that condone human trafficking so they can get their line of charlie then slam trafficking of people for sex are complete hypocrites. But I suppose those trafficking drugs aren't getting raped multiple times a day by a string of punters that they don't want to fuck.
Naughtynatalie
05-12-12, 22:56
Can I ask a question?
Something I'm always curious about when I see these types of threads.
Is it only victims of sex trafficking we should be concerned about? Are the other types of trafficking not important once it's not people being forced to work as escorts against their will?
Take the drugs biz for instance.
There have been a few threads going back the last 6 months or so about escorts who take recreational drugs or when you arrive for appointments and the escort is clearly under the influence or something. (I can't be arsed looking for the relevant links at the moment). I think some escorts did have the backbone to say "yeah, i like the odd spliff or line of coke now and again"
But I seem to recall at the time when these threads were posted, that escorts said what they did in their own free time was nobody's business and clients shouldn't be poking their noses in, which is fair enough.
But I'm wondering, for those escorts here pontificating about trafficked girls and taking the moral high ground (and this obviously only applies to those escorts who like to indulge in recreational drug use) and telling clients to get a backbone, what is the difference between someone who has been enslaved, trafficked and forced to work as drug mule so you can have your lines of coke, pop your pills and smoke your spliffs and someone who has been trafficked into prostitution?
Isn't it bascially the same thing? Someone from South America or Afghanistan who has had their little farm seized by drug cartels for cocoa or poppy plantations, someone who's family have been threatened unless they work as drug mule, people who are kidnapped and forced to do these things or worse again, the thousands of people who are murdered every year, all so people can get high on the weekend for the laugh?
Are you not just as guilty of trafficking like the pimps who traffic girls? Kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me.
Obviously, like I said, that only applies to those escorts who indulge in recreational drug use and isn't intended to offend those who have never touched drugs.
Says the man named after an ecstasy tablet :p
I do see where your coming from but there is trafficking happening wherever there is commercial profit, abhorrent to say the least. But we can only try to help in the industry that we know of.
A year or 2 ago in the uk, cant remember if it was essex or kent but about 20 trafficked victims where found living in what can only be described as a tiny squalid hut and were forced to work in the fields picking fruit and vegetables.. absolutely shocking but my point is does that mean we shouldnt eat fruit and veg.
What about the kids in slave labour in asia making trainers, shoes and clothing for the western world?? Do you buy those clothes?
I'm not having a go at you DB and I am an occasional cannabis smoker but the stuff I smoke tends to come from the UK apart from my twice yearly trip to amsterdam.
All human trafficking under any guise is vile and the traffickers should be hung, drawn & quartered but I am not in an industry that can do more to help all of them. But through clients being more vigilante and being brave enough to report any suspicions they may have and through escorts speaking up & trying to stop the new legislation going through, maybe in time we can all help to cut down on trafficking within the sex industry.
Nat x
Hun,you are really tense regarding these topic..the fact is which l do not believe that it is exciting yet maybe there's as no one could really force anyone to do the job..thats my opionion yet as l stated before the Press and The Press and Media are the Communications Department hope you have a glue what l mean,lol, sorry...:paddy-smiley4:,:party:,:pirate:
No, I havent met every sex worker neither did you.
On the last big raids , the police did met many of the sex workers in Ireland and even if it was a check up and not went for anyone in particular, they did not found any escort tied to the radiator ...
Were are the convictions on human trafficking for the last 2 -3 years?
Disco Biscuit
06-12-12, 00:14
Says the man named after an ecstasy tablet :p
I do see where your coming from but there is trafficking happening wherever there is commercial profit, abhorrent to say the least. But we can only try to help in the industry that we know of.
A year or 2 ago in the uk, cant remember if it was essex or kent but about 20 trafficked victims where found living in what can only be described as a tiny squalid hut and were forced to work in the fields picking fruit and vegetables.. absolutely shocking but my point is does that mean we shouldnt eat fruit and veg.
What about the kids in slave labour in asia making trainers, shoes and clothing for the western world?? Do you buy those clothes?
I'm not having a go at you DB and I am an occasional cannabis smoker but the stuff I smoke tends to come from the UK apart from my twice yearly trip to amsterdam.
All human trafficking under any guise is vile and the traffickers should be hung, drawn & quartered but I am not in an industry that can do more to help all of them. But through clients being more vigilante and being brave enough to report any suspicions they may have and through escorts speaking up & trying to stop the new legislation going through, maybe in time we can all help to cut down on trafficking within the sex industry.
Nat x
Totally agree with you Natalie 100% and I know I play a part somehow because I also too have used recreational drugs so I am guilty myself and hold my hands up, like you say, I even chose my name based on drug slang.
But I don't come on here and then take the moral high ground (I'm not saying you are one of the people that have, you're definitely not, I actually really respect your honesty) and slate clients who might have seen trafficked ladies and create threads about it when those that have are just as guilty of trafficking, albeit in a different way.
I am not convinced I would have met them myself, but I would have come across SOME hard evidence sooner or later...and I haven't...
But I have come across almost endless evidence of deliberate panicmongering with alterior motives.
Of course there are sex workers in situations where they need help to rescue themselves, but any I have ever seen were on very personal terms.
The "trafficking epidemic" is part mythical bogeyman (agenda for the pursuit of), and, partly, more sinisterly, a covert outlet for the growing xenophobia that is an inevitable by product of a period of reactionary ascendency and a global recession.
This post sums it up for me really... especially the reference to "deliberate panic mongering with ulterior motive"
Why is it always the native English speakers seem to have the inside story, whereas there are many quite fluent and intelligent non-native speakers that disagree with the intensity of their argument. As Sam has posted, there are cases out there if a journalist really looks for them, and Im sure ye all can have anecdotal evidence too… but lest get real here... how prevalent are these cases.
Lets consider the sex industry in Ireland at the moment. We have escorts that advertise on large websites like E-I, and we have a scattering of street workers that in fairness are a dying trade. When we say one should be cautious of the signs, are we referring to those who work indoors and are advertised on these large websites, or are we referring to those who try to grasp a living on the streets. As I have no knowledge of street workers I can only give my experiences of those who work indoors, so as to speak. So lets assume that we are not talking about the very few that still work the streets, as I feel these girls could well be compromised/coerced and may have problems… having said that I don’t know for sure.
So what are your experiences, you the experienced English escort, as opposed to mine? I say English, because there is barely any other nationality voicing an opinion as strongly as the native English speakers to date, not all mind, but the majority, and don’t tell me there are not enough foreign girls here articulate enough nor experienced enough to voice an opinion. You state you have heard of or have had witness of escorts who are coerced into the escorting trade here in Ireland. In some cases you quote clients who at first hand have had experiences of trafficked or coerced girls working through this website. You also put forward that the younger and less fluent English speaking are more prone. Have you reported any profiles? Sam has offered a link for any such reports; maybe he will tell us how many reports he has had to date. To have received one is one too many, but lets get a perspective here. Of the 600 girls that advertise daily here, is there maybe one a week? One a month? None?
My point is this; in my experiences, using this website, I have never seen a girl that is not comfortable working as an escort in Ireland. I have met them face to face, you have not, and don’t insult my intelligence, please. If you want to make a case please back it up with concrete evidence or else accept it as anecdotal. If we are to warn punters to beware of trafficked or coerced girls advertising on this website then so by backing it up with proof. profiles… otherwise it is spoof, and only a means to sway the punter to visit only what you deem to be a kosher escort…
This post sums it up for me really... especially the reference to "deliberate panic mongering with ulterior motive"
Why is it always the native English speakers seem to have the inside story, whereas there are many quite fluent and intelligent non-native speakers that disagree with the intensity of their argument. As Sam has posted, there are cases out there if a journalist really looks for them, and Im sure ye all can have anecdotal evidence too… but lest get real here... how prevalent are these cases.
Lets consider the sex industry in Ireland at the moment. We have escorts that advertise on large websites like E-I, and we have a scattering of street workers that in fairness are a dying trade. When we say one should be cautious of the signs, are we referring to those who work indoors and are advertised on these large websites, or are we referring to those who try to grasp a living on the streets. As I have no knowledge of street workers I can only give my experiences of those who work indoors, so as to speak. So lets assume that we are not talking about the very few that still work the streets, as I feel these girls could well be compromised/coerced and may have problems… having said that I don’t know for sure.
So what are your experiences, you the experienced English escort, as opposed to mine? I say English, because there is barely any other nationality voicing an opinion as strongly as the native English speakers to date, not all mind, but the majority, and don’t tell me there are not enough foreign girls here articulate enough nor experienced enough to voice an opinion. You state you have heard of or have had witness of escorts who are coerced into the escorting trade here in Ireland. In some cases you quote clients who at first hand have had experiences of trafficked or coerced girls working through this website. You also put forward that the younger and less fluent English speaking are more prone. Have you reported any profiles? Sam has offered a link for any such reports; maybe he will tell us how many reports he has had to date. To have received one is one too many, but lets get a perspective here. Of the 600 girls that advertise daily here, is there maybe one a week? One a month? None?
My point is this; in my experiences, using this website, I have never seen a girl that is not comfortable working as an escort in Ireland. I have met them face to face, you have not, and don’t insult my intelligence, please. If you want to make a case please back it up with concrete evidence or else accept it as anecdotal. If we are to warn punters to beware of trafficked or coerced girls advertising on this website then so by backing it up with proof. profiles… otherwise it is spoof, and only a means to sway the punter to visit only what you deem to be a kosher escort…
I have met a lot of ladies in this industry face to face and have first hand experience with ladies who have been trafficked , also via my membership with Hydra ( organisation for Prostitutes ) , so I do have inside stories !
What makes you think Ireland/NorthenIreland is an exception to all other countries batteling this terrible trade ?
Cause you havent met ladies who through themselfs to your feets begging to be rescued ? Come on get real here !
If you havent met a trafficked lady yet , congrates .
And yes , profiles have been reported , not only via Sams link and people have been arrested down to this reports !
You will hardly find an escort who was involved in bringing down tafficker/ criminals in this trade , stand up and raise her hand to tell you all about it , cause you demand evidence , thats dangerouse , why do you think those people can be reported anonymus !
We all know it exists , but playing it down and /or denying it , doesnt make it go away !
Oh and I am a foreign non-native speaker who has no problems to voice my opinion loud and clear ...
You have a higher chance to encounter a trafficked lady by seeing an foreign , young , lady who speaks hardly any english , then meeting a native speaker or a foreign lady with fluent english !
Can I ask a question?
Something I'm always curious about when I see these types of threads.
Is it only victims of sex trafficking we should be concerned about? Are the other types of trafficking not important once it's not people being forced to work as escorts against their will?
Take the drugs biz for instance.
There have been a few threads going back the last 6 months or so about escorts who take recreational drugs or when you arrive for appointments and the escort is clearly under the influence or something. (I can't be arsed looking for the relevant links at the moment). I think some escorts did have the backbone to say "yeah, i like the odd spliff or line of coke now and again"
But I seem to recall at the time when these threads were posted, that escorts said what they did in their own free time was nobody's business and clients shouldn't be poking their noses in, which is fair enough.
But I'm wondering, for those escorts here pontificating about trafficked girls and taking the moral high ground (and this obviously only applies to those escorts who like to indulge in recreational drug use) and telling clients to get a backbone, what is the difference between someone who has been enslaved, trafficked and forced to work as drug mule so you can have your lines of coke, pop your pills and smoke your spliffs and someone who has been trafficked into prostitution?
Isn't it bascially the same thing? Someone from South America or Afghanistan who has had their little farm seized by drug cartels for cocoa or poppy plantations, someone who's family have been threatened unless they work as drug mule, people who are kidnapped and forced to do these things or worse again, the thousands of people who are murdered every year, all so people can get high on the weekend for the laugh?
Are you not just as guilty of trafficking like the pimps who traffic girls? Kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me.
Obviously, like I said, that only applies to those escorts who indulge in recreational drug use and isn't intended to offend those who have never touched drugs.
the issue of sex trafficking is dubious enough without trying to staple it
to the illicit drug industry. all trafficking is unacceptable (most of it is for cheap labour)
secondly, most of ireland's drugs are grown here in the republic. you think you're going to 'stop' drugs?
As said before , escorts and drugs should have is own thread , but is not irrelevant to trafficked escorts . Trafficked escorts might be taking something to make the work more bareble me thinks !
And again , if something is iffy about a lady , walk away , no matter if one thinks she might be forced to do the job or if a lady seems to be under any influence of drugs or alcohol , it puts her in a state where she is not clear minded and vunerable !
I have met a lot of ladies in this industry face to face and have first hand experience with ladies who have been trafficked , also via my membership with Hydra ( organisation for Prostitutes ) , so I do have inside stories !
What makes you think Ireland/NorthenIreland is an exception to all other countries batteling this terrible trade ?
Cause you havent met ladies who through themselfs to your feets begging to be rescued ? Come on get real here !
If you havent met a trafficked lady yet , congrates .
And yes , profiles have been reported , not only via Sams link and people have been arrested down to this reports !
You will hardly find an escort who was involved in bringing down tafficker/ criminals in this trade , stand up and raise her hand to tell you all about it , cause you demand evidence , thats dangerouse , why do you think those people can be reported anonymus !
We all know it exists , but playing it down and /or denying it , doesnt make it go away !
Oh and I am a foreign non-native speaker who has no problems to voice my opinion loud and clear ...
You have a higher chance to encounter a trafficked lady by seeing an foreign , young , lady who speaks hardly any english , then meeting a native speaker or a foreign lady with fluent english !
Let’s get one thing straight at the outset here Lillian, we are both on the same side with regards to the abhorrence of trafficked/coerced prostitution. I really don’t want to contest who knows more or who has more valued experiences in this. Isn’t it better we share experiences rather than contest them, so I apologise when I suggest you may not have not face to face experiences. I am just putting forward mine. There is no question that trafficking exists, but I feel the important issue here is the scale of same needs to be quantified, lest we lose he run of ourselves and end up scaremongering.
These issues have been raised many times here before, and discussed at length, and it always seems to come down to the suggestion that to visit agency girls is discouraged. For a reader of these forums who may be not very well informed, this is a wrong and misleading suggestion. In the majority of cases agency girls are agency girl because they do not have the language skills nor the local knowledge to go it alone. They need to be helped. It has been put forward that caution should be exercised if the escort does not answer her own phone or does not speak fluent English. Certainly exercise caution, but to advise a boycott is unfair.
As we well know, most, if not all foreign girls start with agency. Some like it this way. Others move to be Indie when they feel comfortable doing so, and this is great. So rather than tarring all foreign escorts with no English with the same brush, why cant we say that visiting agency girls is ok, but please keep your eyes open, and hopefully try and defuse the sigma that exists.
Rachel Divine
06-12-12, 12:33
If they say visiting agency escorts is okay ,customers will use them with more confidence and some escorts do not want that to happen .
Are soo many profiles with fake pictures, review system closed and those ladies still get work, because clients pay them a visit..
If they dont read a simple information on the website, how can we ask them to be careful and/or report a possible trafficking case?!
As long men dont do their part of the game not much we can do ..maybe keep moaning on the boards about it..
Let’s get one thing straight at the outset here Lillian, we are both on the same side with regards to the abhorrence of trafficked/coerced prostitution. I really don’t want to contest who knows more or who has more valued experiences in this. Isn’t it better we share experiences rather than contest them, so I apologise when I suggest you may not have not face to face experiences. I am just putting forward mine. There is no question that trafficking exists, but I feel the important issue here is the scale of same needs to be quantified, lest we lose he run of ourselves and end up scaremongering.
These issues have been raised many times here before, and discussed at length, and it always seems to come down to the suggestion that to visit agency girls is discouraged. For a reader of these forums who may be not very well informed, this is a wrong and misleading suggestion. In the majority of cases agency girls are agency girl because they do not have the language skills nor the local knowledge to go it alone. They need to be helped. It has been put forward that caution should be exercised if the escort does not answer her own phone or does not speak fluent English. Certainly exercise caution, but to advise a boycott is unfair.
As we well know, most, if not all foreign girls start with agency. Some like it this way. Others move to be Indie when they feel comfortable doing so, and this is great. So rather than tarring all foreign escorts with no English with the same brush, why cant we say that visiting agency girls is ok, but please keep your eyes open, and hopefully try and defuse the sigma that exists.
I agree with you , partly .
I am just voicing my opinions and experience here as well and I am well aware that some people dont like it .
No problem so far , the problem occures when agencies are portrait in general as ok , which is sadly not the case !
So excuse me when I am saying ladies with none or barely english are more likly to be trafficked Escorts and that Agency Escorts should be eyed with cautions , since agencies here are not regulated and controlled as in other countries , which makes it more likely that they " employ " trafficked escorts or are traffickers themselfs !
Its a free choice who guys visit or not , but as mentioned before , some guys dont have the knowledge how this industry works behind the scenes and should be informed of the possible dangers .
Its a kind of risk accesment ,
a)I can buy a camera in an aproved well known internetpage and be a happy shopper
b)I can buy it from an unknown internetpage where I have no idea what the source is and take the risk to loose my money or get a faulty/counterfit product
c) I can buy from an unknown internetpage and might be lucky and are a very happy shopper !
I know its a limping example and I dont mean to compare escorts with products to be bought ,but it sums it up about the willingness to take a risk !
The stigma will remain as long as every Paul or Paula can open an Agency get a couple of phones , puts an ad up and gets some girls working ! How are we suppose to distinguish between good or bad ?
I agree with you , partly .
I am just voicing my opinions and experience here as well and I am well aware that some people dont like it .
No problem so far , the problem occures when agencies are portrait in general as ok , which is sadly not the case !
So excuse me when I am saying ladies with none or barely english are more likly to be trafficked Escorts and that Agency Escorts should be eyed with cautions , since agencies here are not regulated and controlled as in other countries , which makes it more likely that they " employ " trafficked escorts or are traffickers themselfs !
Its a free choice who guys visit or not , but as mentioned before , some guys dont have the knowledge how this industry works behind the scenes and should be informed of the possible dangers .
Its a kind of risk accesment ,
a)I can buy a camera in an aproved well known internetpage and be a happy shopper
b)I can buy it from an unknown internetpage where I have no idea what the source is and take the risk to loose my money or get a faulty/counterfit product
c) I can buy from an unknown internetpage and might be lucky and are a very happy shopper !
I know its a limping example and I dont mean to compare escorts with products to be bought ,but it sums it up about the willingness to take a risk !
The stigma will remain as long as every Paul or Paula can open an Agency get a couple of phones , puts an ad up and gets some girls working ! How are we suppose to distinguish between good or bad ?
I like your analogy Lillian.... but please allow me to add this.
The independent girl is the imindependent.com... Direct cummunication with the seller.
The agency girl is more like eBay. You do not communicate directly with the seller but through an agent that through thousands of happy customers has gained confidence and trust. The product is the original and just as good. Sure there have been dome horror stories about shopping on eBay but they are far and few between. Bear in mind also that in this business the purchaser has the ability to make sure the goods are kosher and not dodgy before he hands over money. Again I know it's terrible to compare an escort to a product on sale but it's just to make an analogy.
You correct when you say the stigma will never be removed so long as Paul and Paula are allowed to set up an agency willy nilly. So maybe the solution is rather than criminalizing the client to fight trafficking maybe we should instead legalize and control the Agency. Seems to make better sense.
I like your analogy Lillian.... but please allow me to add this.
The independent girl is the imindependent.com... Direct cummunication with the seller.
The agency girl is more like eBay. You do not communicate directly with the seller but through an agent that through thousands of happy customers has gained confidence and trust. The product is the original and just as good. Sure there have been dome horror stories about shopping on eBay but they are far and few between. Bear in mind also that in this business the purchaser has the ability to make sure the goods are kosher and not dodgy before he hands over money. Again I know it's terrible to compare an escort to a product on sale but it's just to make an analogy.
You correct when you say the stigma will never be removed so long as Paul and Paula are allowed to set up an agency willy nilly. So maybe the solution is rather than criminalizing the client to fight trafficking maybe we should instead legalize and control the Agency. Seems to make better sense.
Well Ebay that a good comparism for Agencies , some get lucky others not , I was burned a few times and never used them again , a lesson learned and not worth the risk ( like Agencies i.m.o.)
But how do you make shure the "Goods" /Escorts from an Agency ( sorry again for the comparism) are cosher , if you cant be certain the Agency is !
Moving in circles , hence legalise AND control the Agencies !
God I am agreeing with James Cork !:cool:
Well Ebay that a good comparism for Agencies , some get lucky others not , I was burned a few times and never used them again , a lesson learned and not worth the risk ( like Agencies i.m.o.)
But how do you make shure the "Goods" /Escorts from an Agency ( sorry again for the comparism) are cosher , if you cant be certain the Agency is !
Moving in circles , hence legalise AND control the Agencies !
God I am agreeing with James Cork !:cool:
It would be ideal if agencies were legalised, but then again, if they were, I would wonder how long it would take the public to accept them once they were legal.
It would be ideal if agencies were legalised, but then again, if they were, I would wonder how long it would take the public to accept them once they were legal.
But it would be a start in the right direction ...
Well Ebay that a good comparism for Agencies , some get lucky others not , I was burned a few times and never used them again , a lesson learned and not worth the risk ( like Agencies i.m.o.)
But how do you make shure the "Goods" /Escorts from an Agency ( sorry again for the comparism) are cosher , if you cant be certain the Agency is !
Moving in circles , hence legalise AND control the Agencies !
God I am agreeing with James Cork !:cool:
Did that hurt???? Lol.
They will stop drugs or at least reduce the output. Some scumbag growing drugs and then selling them on to kids is not something that society should entertain.
Look at all the scumbags in limerick that got sent down, burning people out of their homes because those people could not put up with their disgusting behaviour any longer, filthy scum dealing drugs to kids and thinking they own the towns and nightclubs, the bastards deservedly got sent down and by fuck they will stay down, scumbags! they destroy peoples lives and create crime.
Some junkie addicted to heroin attacking an old woman on a street for a handbag is again not something that society should entertain.
To be honest warmcome, you're putting up a weak argument, you say want to legalise cannabis and all that malarkey, you then frequently cite amsterdam as the leader in free-thinking and liberalisation whilst ignoring the fact that amsterdam is a breeding ground and tourist hotspot for junkies and drug dealing scum that do big deals in the area and try to import it to other countries creating insurmountable damage to society in the process.
Yes, alcohol is also a drug and its dangerous yet tolerated, but the last thing society needs is more potheads abusing cannabis, theres already enough drunks and look at all the damage they cause in towns and cities.
If some cunts, thinks that they can import drugs into a country and destroy society in the process, then they will have another thing coming. Most of them get sent down and deservedly so, kids going around streets off their head on drugs is not something society will ever entertain. They already abuse alcohol, the last thing they need is freely available legalised cannabis.
have you used much cannabis? how can you decide what society
needs or wants? you sound like an optimist though! ;)
Rachel Divine
06-12-12, 17:51
Even independent ,popular escorts and give bad services to clients ...
Escort agencies do it as well ...
Being indie doesnt mean your service is better , only means you manage yourself .. period!!
Disco Biscuit
06-12-12, 17:58
the issue of sex trafficking is dubious enough without trying to staple it
to the illicit drug industry. all trafficking is unacceptable (most of it is for cheap labour)
secondly, most of ireland's drugs are grown here in the republic. you think you're going to 'stop' drugs?
You misunderstand me Warmcome. I'm not trying to staple sex trafficking to the drugs industry. They are 2 different things altogether.
What I was and am saying is that I don't think escorts who "might" use recreational drugs should be lecturing clients and taking the moral high ground about sex trafficking and telling them to grow a backbone when they themselves are involved in another form of human trafficking. They are just as guilty as pimps but in a different scenario. Still human trafficking though. Make sense?
Like you have said and I have previously said, trafficking is trafficking no matter what guise or form it takes and is unacceptable. It is a case of pot calling kettle black by some escorts. That is what I have the issue with. The hypocrisy and moral high ground taken by some.
I am not for one minute linking sex trafficking to the drugs trade. Please read my posts again. I am taking issue with the double standards expressed by some.
I don't want to stop drugs, never said that, nor do I agree with your second point either, but that's a different thread for a different day and in no way linked to this.
Your views are very much in the minority and for perfectly good reasons.
Society does not accept drug dealing to kids, society does not accept junkies around streets harassing and threatening people. Society does not accept drug dealing scumbags profiting from destroying peoples lives.
Thank fuck, you're not a politican running a country or deciding laws, if you were doing that the place would be overrun with junkies especially the urban centres.
you sound like you're trying to convince someone? what you say is unacceptable
appears to be what society has got day in, day out for years now?
i think heroin use is prevailent in our urban centres, without my input in the dail?
Its unwise to conflate all forms of trafficking into the same basket, there are many types of trafficking, trafficking with the consent of the person being trafficked i.e. someone that agrees to be trafficked and knows they are going to be involved in the sex trade or something else.
Then there is deceitful trafficking, someone who agrees to be trafficked in the assumption that they will be in the restaurant, catering industry etc, yet are decieved and beaten into the sex trade, thats a form of sexual exploitation, that should never be tolerated.
There are also other forms, for instance if someone agrees to be trafficked and knows they are going to be selling sex beforehand upon arrival, yet upon entering the sex trade are expected to perform OWO, ANAL, ALL SERVICES ETC, EVEN POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS ONES AND EXPECTED TO SERVE 15 CLIENTS A DAY AND BE CONSTANTLY MOVED AROUND THE PLACE, THATS ALSO EXPLOITATION AND ITS ABUSE. Those people that agreed to be trafficked though and knew well full well they were going to be in the sex trade, really should have copped on and much education needs to be done in their own countries to stop it happening. Someone who uses that method to enter a country and gets abused and then cries help and gets residency in the country is a form of abusing the immigration process. Border control has a lot to fucking answer for.
Theres a lot of escorts out there saying: "How the fuck do they get 15 Johns a day... I can only get 3 if Im lucky... Jammy bitches"...
:D
Common sense really, all services and lower price = more clients, thats what the genuine independent escorts have to compete with and its a shame, to even compete they are under pressure to perform things they don't agree with.
Agencies having the monopoly and deciding what direction the trade is going is only more and more fuel for Ruhama.
All services and lower price = different clients... not necessarily more bud :D
No girl is getting anywhere near 15 a day!
l could fully agree with UKHeather so there are some Clients who pays a visit to such Escorts yet its really time the alarm to be
raised..If the Clients are geniun,lol-----:hail:,:hail:
Recently I was chatting with a client who told me about an experience which concerned him greatly. It had happened recently. There is very little doubt in my mind as to what was going on in the situation he described. It was made more worrying by his concern regarding the age of the girl that was literally pushed out of the door of the lounge to meet with him!!
I'm not surprised you have never come across anyone who was in a situation other than of their own free will. I haven't either. Why would we? It's the clients who are going to come into contact with any such ladies.
To insist that their are no ladies out there being trafficked or coerced is just as foolish as stating that no sex worker is ever working of their own free will.
And you speak for every girl advertised? oh wait you have pimp in your avatar. You pimping them all out or what? most likely not.
No Brock, I’m just exercising common sense.. hey just like you do…;)
Yeah... Whatever....
^^^^^ +1 on this actually.
That last paragraph of yours was a bit harsh Brock.... and that's coming from an asshole like me.
Lol. 11 is hardly "lots"
It'd probably be more if they promoted me from stacking shelves tho' ;)
Oh really? well since James likes to debate about trafficking and pimping? why should his reviews and pimp avatar not be brought into the game? or is that a no no? being politically correct and all, nice to see you have some reviews too, its funny how the people who try to be so dismissive of trafficking in debates are the ones with lots of little reviews, hmmm.
reviews can also be thought of as field reports?
Do you actually punt Brock?
Those people that agreed to be trafficked though and knew well full well they were going to be in the sex trade, really should have copped on
I doubt it is sold to them truthfully. More than likely they leave their country believing the sugared up version that they are fed.
You really made your point..Mr. JamesCork or Adorable James as it has to be so, there you could go..:dunno:,:dunno:,:dunno:,:D
Did that hurt???? Lol.
l am just more, than you are "Sir" Wont hit myself with a nail on a head.. there we go..:hitwithrock:
No Brock, I’m just exercising common sense.. hey just like you do…;)
Rachel Divine
07-12-12, 01:28
Whats the point of the thread at this stage?
The Thread is so tense so you gonna really wait up till the close down,hope so..wait have a cup of tea till the really
agenta closes or come to the ende..lol..:cool:...
Whats the point of the thread at this stage?
funlover12
07-12-12, 02:19
Indeed.
Field reports for the opposition to attempt to criminalise clients, ah sure they have all the ammo they need, they used field reports from the review section and put it in their submission to the government.
Field reports that give in-depth information about clients love affair with services considered as unsafe sex (OWO, CIM) services that clients expect from escorts in their field reports. Field reports were also used in another country to send down a well known mafia gang.
Then you have funlover12 opening threads about his bewilderment in escorts not offering CIM without a condom.
Oh nice ammo there, then people wonder why all the pressure from Ruhama and co, the review section is like showing a red cape to a bull.
Theres your field report for you.
http://www.enrichyou.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/bull-fight-1.jpg
you should probably get a better understanding of english and instead of seeing what you want to see with a suspicious mind, try and leave your personal views out of it. If you dont understand things thats not my problem. go back and read my thread slowly, real slow. you need to learn to read threads not just respond to an OP. your doing it wrong.
Do you actually punt Brock?
Black markets are illegal. You also are only talking about a minority section of society that abuses illegal drugs, not everyone is society is a pothead nor do they want to be.
Why should society legalise marijuana to cater for a minority few potheads? it would never be made legal for commercial consumption because it would inflate the black market and demand for cheaper drugs or more hardcore drugs since society would be seen to be tolerant of weed.
Society is tolerant of alcohol and look at the damage that creates, it creates violence and trouble, the black market and cheap alcohol also thrives making access more readily available for kids.
using derogatory names doesn't strenghen your losing argument, it just reveals your prejudice.
the substance you refer to is to be legalised here next year for medicinal use.
i would consider anyone with an addiction to same to be front of the queue.
Do you actually punt Brock?
Do you actually visit suspected agency girls (suspected illegal brothels) in your reviews and have your reviews and complaints for expected OWO stuck into an abolitionist government submission? a review that Ruhama calls a Derogatory attitude to women a review to make all clients appear as demanding of unsafe sex acts from suspected agency girls. oh wait? you do.
Wow James.
You're giving them all the ammo they need, but wanting OWO from agency girls is cool though? broadcasting your sex life to the world is awesome isn't it? you're such a stud.
You're so cool.
Keep giving them the ammunition stud.
71165
Okay Brock, let's calm it down please.
Actually, it's time to lock.