View Full Version : prostitution legislation in Today Irishtimes.com
vanessa.escort
15-10-12, 08:08
Report on a recent public consultation process on the issue would be drawn up by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality by the year’s end.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1015/1224325258155.html
nautural bbw
18-10-12, 19:35
oh well,when we pull our knickers down,let them without a sin cast the 1st stone.
Minister Shatter was speaking at the opening of that conference. a revealing conference.
i predict the third listed option will be the outcome:
* non-criminalisation, which would mean sex workers would have to comply with employment, health and safety, and human rights and equality legislation
forget full regulation. this state is not up to that yet.
Report on a recent public consultation process on the issue would be drawn up by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality by the year’s end.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1015/1224325258155.html
Thanks Vanessa. the minister didn't really give away anything did he?
Here's hoping that common sense and true justice prevail.
funlover12
19-10-12, 06:04
it sounds like they are going to transfer the laws from street prostitution to indoor, to catch a loophole that currently exists :(
meaning total criminalization of prostitute and client I think. oh dear :mad:
back to the old ways so. and no such thing as an escort!
stay positive we don't know what will happen its crazy ideas they will create more damage then good and they will never stop it as there is a demand there will be a supply. stay positive and don't give up with out a fight.........
vanessa.escort
19-10-12, 11:28
Irish examiner writing today that :
If there were no buyers, she said, there would be no market, and legislation must be enacted to criminalise the buying of sex.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/legislation-the-only-way-to-end-prostitution-211330.html
you can never stop the purchasing of sex it has been going on for decades i think drinking driving is a bit different cos you can kill people behind the wheel. We as escorts don't kill no one. Yes human trafficking is an issue and needs to be addressed. Underage girls on the internet even the sites can't stop that i for one wish they could but fake ID is so easy to get nowadays they are not able to do all the checks that police can do they just take it on face value. Look at Newzeland its all legal over there and i think Australia is why can't UK and Ireland look at the procedures the put in to make it effective and open there minds to changing times.
vanessa.escort
19-10-12, 11:45
Newspapers new write interesting stories to make money!!!
They can't criminalist thousands clients .
LaBelleThatcher
19-10-12, 12:50
it sounds like they are going to transfer the laws from street prostitution to indoor, to catch a loophole that currently exists :(
meaning total criminalization of prostitute and client I think. oh dear :mad:
back to the old ways so. and no such thing as an escort!
NO DEFEATISM!!
I am certainly NOT letting it all hang out as I have with the slightest intention of losing to a pack of self-serving interfering bitches (NB I am an *altruistic* interfering bitch - very different category)
well said just hit the nail on the head
Irish examiner writing today that :
If there were no buyers, she said, there would be no market, and legislation must be enacted to criminalise the buying of sex.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/legislation-the-only-way-to-end-prostitution-211330.html
No great surprise here Vanessa, I'm afraid.
Denise Charlton quoted in the article above, is the CEO of the Immigrant council of Ireland. They are the twin sister of Ruhama, needing to create a problem to continue to get government funding and donations (all of which are substantial sums!!)
The timing is no surprise either. After the recent conference, where I understand it didn't all go their way, they have started their media campaign again. Thye must have got a shock to hear escorts speak up at the conference. However, they clearly weren't listening to what the girls were saying!:mad:
What a load of tripe really? Like escorts only came into being because men are willing to pay for sex! The implication is that if you wave a 100 euro at any women, she will be powerless and drop her knickers and subject herself to non-consensual sex!!
The escorting industry exists because there are women who are willing to provide time and companionship (obviously including sex) in excahnge for money, and because there are men who are willing to pay for such services (many of whom like myself, who won't get it any way else). And in the majority of cases this is all by mutual consent.
In any business that is criminalized or partially criminalized, there will be unscrupulous peolple who wish to exploit others and make money from those they exploit. These are the real criminals who need to be dealt with. Decriminalization or Legalisation and Regulation, will both take away the ability of organised criminals to exploit those in the industry.
vanessa.escort
19-10-12, 16:25
The best for them go for New Zealand and Canada law models.
They can criminalise one or another side.
But they know that they cant stop this business never.
I dont think they gonna be so stupid to do that.
All girls gonna providing High Class Gentlemans Companion and end the story.
What 2 adults do under closed doors is just them business.
drink driving and smoking inside have been reduced by legislation and enforcement.
allow me to give you an example where legislation has failed to stop and actually
increased the danger.
two years ago 100 shops employed 400 people serving (over 18s) with legal highs.
an element more comfortable with booze were jealous of the 1 million euros a day these shops were generating.
misinformed mothers pressurised the govt to remove these visible, responsible outlets from our cities.
did drug use cease in Ireland? no. what did change is those now running the illicit trade
are happy to sell harder drugs (more compact to smuggle and users will return because they are more addictive)
the illicit trade does not care about age ID, so teenagers have better access under the new system.
don't force solutions on problems, you'll only get more!
In new zealand it works as i know some one who use to work over there and she said it was brilliant. Why can't they give it ago and every escort has to pay tax, health screening every 3 months, registering and prove you have the right papers ect, build a relationship between escorts and police. Is this unreasonable?? No its common sense. Yes this might mean more paper work and employing more people to a special unit. But for the economy they are still getting money spent and they will be getting tax. To me that makes sense.
vanessa.escort
19-10-12, 17:04
In media escort girls sound such a criminals.
That make me just lough.
nautural bbw
19-10-12, 20:16
this is not funny anymore
drink driving and smoking inside have been reduced by legislation and enforcement.
allow me to give you an example where legislation has failed to stop and actually
increased the danger.
two years ago 100 shops employed 400 people serving (over 18s) with legal highs.
an element more comfortable with booze were jealous of the 1 million euros a day these shops were generating.
misinformed mothers pressurised the govt to remove these visible, responsible outlets from our cities.
did drug use cease in Ireland? no. what did change is those now running the illicit trade
are happy to sell harder drugs (more compact to smuggle and users will return because they are more addictive)
the illicit trade does not care about age ID, so teenagers have better access under the new system.
don't force solutions on problems, you'll only get more!
Excellent example Warmcome! The headshops were being burned down by hard core drug dealers! Because it was stealing their business.
Changing the law to outrule headshops, only played into the hands of the serious drug dealers.
The government missed an opportunity to deal a blow to drug dealers. Stringent regulation of headshops would have been the way to go.
Excellent example Warmcome! The headshops were being burned down by hard core drug dealers! Because it was stealing their business.
Changing the law to outrule headshops, only played into the hands of the serious drug dealers.
The government missed an opportunity to deal a blow to drug dealers. Stringent regulation of headshops would have been the way to go.
between alcohol and tobacco = 5-10 billion euros per annum-two dirty drugs IMO
In new zealand it works as i know some one who use to work over there and she said it was brilliant. Why can't they give it ago and every escort has to pay tax, health screening every 3 months, registering and prove you have the right papers ect, build a relationship between escorts and police. Is this unreasonable?? No its common sense. Yes this might mean more paper work and employing more people to a special unit. But for the economy they are still getting money spent and they will be getting tax. To me that makes sense.
There is a lot to be said for the New Zeland model. I think adopting such a model which is a mix of legalization and regulation and some decriminalization, would benefit all involved in the sex industry.
With one caveat however! And that is the law in New Zealand that only allows citizens to work as escorts!!!!!
That would be the death of escorting in Ireland!! So if the similar laws like in New Zealand are brought in here, we will have to make sure that they don't prevent non-Irish ladies from working as escorts here!
Inicidentally there is a very strong escort/sex workers union in New Zealand. The laws governing sex work were made in discussion with this union. Does anyone know what SWAI are doing??????? They are the one NGO funded to speak up for escorts, but seem to be very quiet? I know they had a representative speaking at the conference but I feel they should be out there actively countering every bit of misinformation being spread by Ruhama, The Immigrant council and the rest of the TORL!!
The Equalizer
19-10-12, 20:56
Interesting Points About Ruhama
Ruhama is handed in the region of €700,000 p.a of the Taxpayer's money (almost 'No Questions Asked') for doing nothing but making life difficult for the people they are supposedly crusading to improve the lives of.
In addition, persons unfortunate enough to need to apply for Jobseeker's Allowance are subject to a comprehensive (and very stringent) Means Test to determine the rate of payment payable to the applicant (and in some cases to determine if the applicant is even entitled to a payment). (Full Rate ofJobseeker's Allowance is in the region of €9,000 p.a)
As part of the aforementioned Means Test, J.A applicants must also furnish amounts of all expenses they anticipate they will encounter (costs of groceries, utilities bills etc) in order to help the appropriate Government Department decide the rate of payment applicant.
Ruhama receives an exorbitant amount of funding, and does not (and for some strange reason, is not obliged to) furnish their expenses.
Ruhama allege they vehemently oppose the "exploitation and degradation of women". Most of Ruhama's "full time" "staff" are "volunteers", ie they do not get paid. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of Ruhama's staff are women, and many of those are non Irish. From this information, it is logical to conclude that these "volunteers" are women who formerly worked in this industry whom Ruhama "saved" (and possibly brainwashed), and Ruhama are now exploiting these women to justify their own agenda.
Expecting anybody (male or female) to work for zero is exploitation, and above all, is degrading to that individual.
I could furnish more facts about Ruhama and other Organisations under the TORL umbrella, but I think you can only post so much in one post.
skywalker85
19-10-12, 21:16
In media escort girls sound such a criminals.
That make me just lough.
no its they try to make every escort out to be a victim, it's the clients they are making out to be the criminals.
Next Ruhama and Co. will probably be calling for chemists to stop prescribing medication cause SOME people OD on them!
Half Man and Half Dildo
19-10-12, 21:23
drink driving and smoking inside have been reduced by legislation and enforcement.
allow me to give you an example where legislation has failed to stop and actually
increased the danger.
two years ago 100 shops employed 400 people serving (over 18s) with legal highs.
an element more comfortable with booze were jealous of the 1 million euros a day these shops were generating.
misinformed mothers pressurised the govt to remove these visible, responsible outlets from our cities.
did drug use cease in Ireland? no. what did change is those now running the illicit trade
are happy to sell harder drugs (more compact to smuggle and users will return because they are more addictive)
the illicit trade does not care about age ID, so teenagers have better access under the new system.
don't force solutions on problems, you'll only get more!
Warmcome, this is an excellent analogy which people here should file away for future use. And it's all the more potent because it's absolutely 100% correct.
The Equalizer
19-10-12, 22:47
no its they try to make every escort out to be a victim, it's the clients they are making out to be the criminals.
Next Ruhama and Co. will probably be calling for chemists to stop prescribing medication cause SOME people OD on them!
Duly noted.
In relation to the whole "Escorts are Victims, Clients are Sleazeballs" spin that is doing the rounds, here are some points which "certain organisations" should take note of:
On the "Escorts are Victims" side:
Any of the girls I met from EI were very intelligent; some of the girls I met had degrees, one was even educated to University level. These were girls who could obviously work in any career they wished (even in the current economic climate), yet they chose (of their own free will) to work in this industry.
Accordingly to certain organisations, one of the main reasons why women work in this industry is due to the lack of opportunities available to them.
None of the girls I ever met from EI exhibited any characteristics associated with drug and/or alcohol dependence (eg. needlemarks, burned lips, shaky hands, etc), never showed any signs of being subject to physical assault (bruises, black eyes from 'walking into doors' etc), and always seemed (and behaved) like they were in very good mental and physical health.
According to "certain organisations", the majority of women working in this industry do as a result of drug addiction/substance abuse issues, and are routinely (and ritually) subject to acts of physical violence.
On the "Clients are Sleazeballs" side:
Men who visit escorts do so because they enjoy the company of the ladies and whatever may ensue between them.
Men who visit escorts are not frequenting nightclubs and spiking unsuspecting girls' drinks so that they can rape them.
That is non consensual sex, not visiting a girl working in this industry who has chosen to do so of her own free will.
Men who visit escorts are not encouraging women to cheat on their husbands/long-term partners.
Many relationships have been wrecked because some sleazeball "liked what he saw, and just had to have her", and didn't consider anyone (the woman, her husband/long-term partner, her children) but himself. This is very seldom a problem involving men who visit escorts.
Certain organisations (we all know who I mean) should take note of these points.
skywalker85
19-10-12, 22:59
Duly noted.
In relation to the whole "Escorts are Victims, Clients are Sleazeballs" spin that is doing the rounds, here are some points which "certain organisations" should take note of:
On the "Escorts are Victims" side:
Any of the girls I met from EI were very intelligent; some of the girls I met had degrees, one was even educated to University level. These were girls who could obviously work in any career they wished (even in the current economic climate), yet they chose (of their own free will) to work in this industry.
Accordingly to certain organisations, one of the main reasons why women work in this industry is due to the lack of opportunities available to them.
None of the girls I ever met from EI exhibited any characteristics associated with drug and/or alcohol dependence (eg. needlemarks, burned lips, shaky hands, etc), never showed any signs of being subject to physical assault (bruises, black eyes from 'walking into doors' etc), and always seemed (and behaved) like they were in very good mental and physical health.
According to "certain organisations", the majority of women working in this industry do as a result of drug addiction/substance abuse issues, and are routinely (and ritually) subject to acts of physical violence.
On the "Clients are Sleazeballs" side:
Men who visit escorts do so because they enjoy the company of the ladies and whatever may ensue between them.
Men who visit escorts are not frequenting nightclubs and spiking unsuspecting girls' drinks so that they can rape them.
That is non consensual sex, not visiting a girl working in this industry who has chosen to do so of her own free will.
Men who visit escorts are not encouraging women to cheat on their husbands/long-term partners.
Many relationships have been wrecked because some sleazeball "liked what he saw, and just had to have her", and didn't consider anyone (the woman, her husband/long-term partner, her children) but himself. This is very seldom a problem involving men who visit escorts.
Certain organisations (we all know who I mean) should take note of these points.
Yes Exactly that's what these groups do, They twist everything and tell it to the wider communities.
and the reason they do and can is because they know that Escorts and Clients alike have to be as discreet as possible about this business....That way its easier for them to twist things in their favor and convince the public that most girls have been forced into the escorting business.
I sincerely doubt that any of the organisations have had much contact with independent indoor sex workers.
Just because someone works in a fancy apartment doesn't make them any less vulnerable than someone working from the street or in a brothel, lets not kid ourselves on that, BUT they seem to be blind to the fact that some women CHOOSE to do this work of their own volition. My decision to do this work was a rational and measured decision. It suited me for many reasons. I should have a right to make that choice. I don't need someone who does not know me or my circumstances deciding that I must need to be 'rescued' and rehabilitated. I deserve the right to choose my own employment, to earn my own income and the same right to safety in my job as any other worker.
SWEET NIKITA
20-10-12, 10:19
Oooh my god why cant they just give up,bringing up any kind of law will never stop prostitution it will always be there done in different ways.Its like a disease without cure you end up accepting and leaving with it till you die.Many women have 2 or more boyfriends and they dont call themselves prostitutes because they dont advertise( cant say its free,something they get from these men) but to me there's no difference except that I am an independent woman and dont hide behind my finger,100euro half an hour thats what i want and thats what i get,unlike them they might get their 100euro after four or more times doing it in the good name of relationship.
LaBelleThatcher
20-10-12, 10:49
I am sitting back with coffee loving most of your posts but I want to highlight one thing, and pull you up (gently) on another, both related.
In relation to the whole "Escorts are Victims, Clients are Sleazeballs" spin that is doing the rounds
Careful with this little propaganda chestnut...because like any chestnut, it is round and easy to turn too far.
Last time around, the propaganda said "Clients are poor little victims enticed by wicked women". My job then was to turn that round to reality that sex workers are not wicked women at all, they are, in a huge part, women who need the money, often desperately. This time around all they have done is swung my (then revolutionary) arguments around too far.
Beware of turning it too far back the other way, and that is all too easy to do.
Any of the girls I met from EI were very intelligent; some of the girls I met had degrees, one was even educated to University level. These were girls who could obviously work in any career they wished (even in the current economic climate), yet they chose (of their own free will) to work in this industry.
Accordingly to certain organisations, one of the main reasons why women work in this industry is due to the lack of opportunities available to them.
Now, something very important, that I never thought of before, came into my mind during the Trinity debate around this concept.
WHOA!!! HOLD THOSE HORSES!!!
Are we really going to fall into the same fault as Ivana Bancik and declare that people can only have the power to make choices if they have all the glittering prizes available to choose from? Apart from sailing very close to the subliminal propaganda rationale regularly used to destroy disabled people's lives.
Every adult has the same inalienable right to make their own choices, even if the only options left to them are between homeless destitution and sex work, or between handing their lives over to the questionable mercies of a TORL member organisation and sex work.
As this thought arose from the arguments presented in the Trinity Debate, let me conclude it in terms of that debate.
This house believes that sex work empowers women because, whatever their circumstances, however few, or many choices they have, it provides them with one more option to choose from.
:)
LaBelleThatcher
20-10-12, 11:12
I sincerely doubt that any of the organisations have had much contact with independent indoor sex workers.
Let me tell you something really appalling Heather. Most of these organisations have only had contact with Ruhama's clutch of "token sex workers", who are always carefully selected as women willing to comply with whatever agenda Ruhama presents. They do not even check whether they have really been sex workers, anyone Ruhama can control will do, and if you look at Ruhama's site you will see that they, in fact, cunningly define their user group as "anyone in prostitution" or "anyone at risk of prostitution", so they are covered.
Just because someone works in a fancy apartment doesn't make them any less vulnerable than someone working from the street or in a brothel, lets not kid ourselves on that, BUT they seem to be blind to the fact that some women CHOOSE to do this work of their own volition. My decision to do this work was a rational and measured decision. It suited me for many reasons. I should have a right to make that choice. I don't need someone who does not know me or my circumstances deciding that I must need to be 'rescued' and rehabilitated. I deserve the right to choose my own employment, to earn my own income and the same right to safety in my job as any other worker.
I have a really literal mind that tends to pare everything back to basics and the conviction growing in me is that *NOBODY* has the right to question, or speculate about the decision of another adult.
I was f*cking horrified at Ruhama blurbing stats about how many sex workers are married or in relationships (as if that had some relevance to something in a gender equal society!) because, whether that stats are true or false they are ABSOLUTELY NOBODY'S BUSINESS...no more than if they produce stats on how many sex workers are married and have a secret lover!
What comes next? Do we start analyzing other women's relationships and deciding that they didn't have any partner options so we must abduct them from their marriages and force them to live alone, in sink estates, on welfare or minimum wage?
I don't see anyone "rescuing" people from MacDonalds because they didn't have any choices...nor from any of the other utterly miserable jobs, with below subsistence wages, people are being forced into by recession. I also do not see anyone speculating on whether they have spouse, families and degrees or not.
vanessa.escort
20-10-12, 11:13
politics.ie
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/195853-prostitution-legal-ireland-you-happy-escorts-paying-taxes-5.html
Rachel Divine
20-10-12, 11:30
Newspapers new write interesting stories to make money!!!
They can't criminalist thousands clients .
By law they can.
Court cases not such high number, one or two is enough to scare clients.
LaBelleThatcher
20-10-12, 13:28
By law they can.
Court cases not such high number, one or two is enough to scare clients.
That is so true, and the only thing about those "one or two" that is not completely random will be that they will not be anybody influential.
Something else is really starting to bug me. The only way anyone who wants (or needs) it can get any kind of help at all to "exit or avoid" sex work, for any reason, is by agreeing with Ruhama.
Ok, they say "Our services is non-judgmental, we help anyone regardless of what they believe" but that is absolute b*llsh*t in practice.
Let me give you some hypotheticals:
How can a mum, with a duty to take best care of her children place all their lives at the mercy of Ruhama, knowing what they are really like? Knowing that Ruhama couldn't care less whether they have a roof over their heads, go to schools that meet their needs, have enough food to eat as long as their mum is a sex worker and does not comply with their mission?
How can anyone who is dependent on Ruhama's services and affiliate TORL services because they had no choice except to remain, or continue, as a sex worker against their will, feel safe, or that they have a right to oppose them however they really feel and whatever they have seen? (Not everyone is ignorant enough to believe that just because *they* cannot stand being a sex worker sex work must be eradicated for everyone else too).
Of course, none of this would matter if Ruhama and TORL affiliates were not the only help and support services of any kind offered to sex workers, whatever and however desperate the problem.
If you are a sex worker, and you are raped, badly beaten, and injured, on your way home from work the *ONLY* support available to you comes from TORL member orgs.
(By the way, that is the only help or support available to *me* in the same position. 20 years out of sex work at a PHD level in how misguided, rotten, corrupt, unscrupulous and mentally and emotionally abusive the Ruhama/TORL agenda really is - the worst thing that could come near me in a vulnerable state, and a huge dose of revictimization that I do not need at any time.)
Is it any wonder nobody has a clue how sex workers really feel except the lies TORL can feed them?
After all, when a person begins sex work it is to make money to live, with all that normally entails...not a backdoor commitment to constant socio-political activism as essential self defence!
A sex worker should no more have to explain and justify herself to NGOs, politicians and the media to be allowed to live and work in peace than a bus driver.
Rachel Divine
20-10-12, 15:12
What bothers me is the use of "Stop Human Trafficking" and we help "Trafficked prostitutes" when they DO NOT ASK or TALK of / about better law against human trafficking...and they go for "clients" ... The client is not the one who do the trafficking!!!
LaBelleThatcher
20-10-12, 15:45
What bothers me is the use of "Stop Human Trafficking" and we help "Trafficked prostitutes" when they DO NOT ASK or TALK of / about better law against human trafficking...and they go for "clients" ... The client is not the one who do the trafficking!!!
Do you know, that is where how little they really care about "trafficking" starts to show?
You and I are the type of people who would help hammer traffickers for fun at weekends, if there was some way we could do so without having to sign up to lunatic agenda we know will do untold harm to sex workers.
But, because we WILL NOT tell, or support, insane lies about ourselves and the sex worker and clients we know, and because we do not want laws to endanger sex workers, or persecute harmless men (and their families), we are not welcome to do anything that might REALLY help stop and punish any real trafficking and coercion they are hiding behind all the sensationalized lies they tell as publicity stunts.
A sex worker should no more have to explain and justify herself to NGOs, politicians and the media to be allowed to live and work in peace than a bus driver.
Damn straight LaBelle!! Damn straight!:clapping:
You have just summarised what true sexual equality and women's rights entails :), and not what these self righteous groups are pushing!:mad:
Careful with this little propaganda chestnut...because like any chestnut, it is round and easy to turn too far.
Last time around, the propaganda said "Clients are poor little victims enticed by wicked women". My job then was to turn that round to reality that sex workers are not wicked women at all, they are, in a huge part, women who need the money, often desperately. This time around all they have done is swung my (then revolutionary) arguments around too far.
Beware of turning it too far back the other way, and that is all too easy to do.
LaBelle, the people behind the TORL, still believe independant escorts are wicked women. Nothing has changed!!:mad:
Of course it's not politically correct to say this now, in our age of "enlightened sexuality"! Their attack on punters is of course a veiled attack on independant escorts! They are attempting to attack your source of income and thereby make it less attractive to work as an escort in Ireland. Not to mention attacking landlords to ensure that independant escorts will have no where to work!:banghead:
But your point of turning attitudes too far back is well taken.
LaBelleThatcher
20-10-12, 18:23
I know Morpheus...
For me it is feck with the head every step of the way...
I always said women are driven to sex work out of desperation, but never, ONCE did that suggest to me that meant they would be better off left destitute without an option on sex work...that does not even make sense...it is the most insane part of the whole campaign yet that is at the root of everything the TORLeks say...
Life is not this brilliant, black and white, binary thing where you get a choice between HAPPY :) and SAD:( at every junction. Sometimes all the choices are sad ones, and you just have to pick the best for you. It's not:
(Sex work) = sad therefore (no sex work) = happy
It is much more complex than that, life is usually is...if only because:
(sex work) = money
(life minus money) = destitution
(destitution) = sad
Therefore (no sex work) = sad too
They also sell this line that sex workers must be prevented from working because they do not like the work.
Leaving aside the questionable means by which they arrived at the assumption (the methodology employed is, I believe, called "guessing") that they do not like the work...where, precisely, does that leave FAS and the rest of the economy?
Why are sex workers the only people who must be forcibly made redundant because they do not like their jobs?
Coming from a disability perspective, I see intelligent young people shoehorned into jobs (usually so some NGO can profit) that they hate like people around here do not even have nightmares about...but, apparently this is PERFECTLY OK....for them...
Sex workers however, MUST BE PROTECTED from work they do not like - whether they realise they do not like it or not.
Isn't that just a tiny bit weird?
The Equalizer
21-10-12, 16:06
Do you know, that is where how little they really care about "trafficking" starts to show?
You and I are the type of people who would help hammer traffickers for fun at weekends, if there was some way we could do so without having to sign up to lunatic agenda we know will do untold harm to sex workers.
But, because we WILL NOT tell, or support, insane lies about ourselves and the sex worker and clients we know, and because we do not want laws to endanger sex workers, or persecute harmless men (and their families), we are not welcome to do anything that might REALLY help stop and punish any real trafficking and coercion they are hiding behind all the sensationalized lies they tell as publicity stunts.
I couldn't agree more with what you just posted here.
I would also like to draw everyone's attention to what Ruhama are now spinning:
http://www.ruhama.ie/easyedit/files/autumnnewsletter12.pdf
Sex Work and Human Trafficking are two totally separate entities; the sooner "certain organisations" realize this the better .
LaBelleThatcher
21-10-12, 16:45
I couldn't agree more with what you just posted here.
I would also like to draw everyone's attention to what Ruhama are now spinning:
http://www.ruhama.ie/easyedit/files/autumnnewsletter12.pdf
Sex Work and Human Trafficking are two totally separate entities; the sooner "certain organisations" realize this the better .
I know, I already saw it...the sheer arrogance staggers me...I don't like pulling age...but the people who make this stuff up were children when I was selling sex.
I am old enough be their mother...yet, apparently, their half baked misinformed ideas must automatically trump my first hand life experience, and I must be silenced or abused unless I agree with them.
Sorry, but THAT is as completely insane as it is offensive.
If Banjaxed tells me I am wrong about law, my ears prick up and I listen...BECAUSE HE IS STUDYING LAW. If Samlad tells me I am being nasty and unfair to someone I prick up my ears and listen, because his left little toe knows more about being nice and fair to people than I will ever know...
I don't stop and listen to people who know more than me out of some sense of fairness, I stop and listen to people who know more than me BECAUSE I LIKE TO BE RIGHT...and much more so if I am in danger with messing with other people's lives, because if I make a mistake and do them some harm, I will feel bad about it for years.
These people are not intelligent enough to see why you must always listen to those who know more than you do, and do not have the integrity to even care who they hurt....
AND THEY PAY THEMSELVES A SMALL FORTUNE to mercilessly poke, at, impose upon, and interfere with, the lives of everybody here, with no court of appeal. There just isn't a justification for that in a sane world.
What makes it more sickening is that, just the E-I community alone (let alone the whole sex industry because there are plenty of others) is full of people who actually do the work Ruhama pretend to do, on their own time, for free, often (as I have myself) running into deliberate obstruction from Ruhama who are totally indifferent to the negative impact their obstruction will have.
They act as if sex workers have no right to exist except as an excuse to justify their continued funding.
Sorry - Meant to start a new thread