View Full Version : Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation
Below you will find a copy of the programme for the Department of Justice and Equality Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation. It was emailed to those invited to this conference today.
To read whole article look here: http://sexwork.ie/2012/10/03/conference-on-the-future-direction-of-prostitution-legislation/
In one of the replies:
Turn Off The Nonsense Anti-Sex-Work-Agenda
Human trafficking for sexual exploitation and consenting adults having sex for money in private are two entirely seperate issues. Sarah Benson and Nusha Yunkova must realise that, and stop conflating the two seperate issues together into an agenda that seeks to force sex workers underground and remove them from society. Sex workers private adult sex lives are really none of Sarah Bensons and Nusha Yunkovas business, they need to give over their nonsense by classing all sex workers as victims, when they are not!
Check it out.
Discuss
xxx
the traveller
04-10-12, 15:48
Thanks Nicole, I see it's not an open conference. I can understand why, can you imagine all the heckling and abuse the leader of the evil empire would get!
Love the way they are now trying to wiggle out of an association with the nuns. They're directors and as the name implies they direct the way in which they want their organisation to take. Glad to see Pye Jakobsson is going to speak, lets hope she can counter Ruhama's total bullshit.
Rachel Divine
04-10-12, 18:23
Sorry Nicole for not seeing this before.
It might not be an open conference but I just sent them my confirmation email and I am going to hear what they say :D
If they let me in, of course ..
Jack in the Box
04-10-12, 18:57
Hopefully the nonsense of NGO's who want governments to interfere in people's bedrooms is shown up.
Fair play to all those involved in sexwork.ie. The site is on the ball.
The Equalizer
04-10-12, 19:33
Sorry Nicole for not seeing this before.
It might not be an open conference but I just sent them my confirmation email and I am going to hear what they say :D
If they let me in, of course ..
What is needed is a 'Client Representative' and an 'Escort Representative', who could logically debate on behalf of those whom they respectively represent.
Were a sex worker to attend though, (well done Rachel :)), what amount of time can they reasonably expect to be allowed to speak ? If it's the open discussion sections only then I know from my own experience that they can expect to be shouted down and the real test is in keeping calm and eloquent in your responses, (if allowed).
Why weren't sex workers consulted before the agenda was written up ?
Sorry Nicole for not seeing this before.
It might not be an open conference but I just sent them my confirmation email and I am going to hear what they say :D
If they let me in, of course ..
Well done rachel,
and i hope you get in and have your say,
like a girl with spirit and determination.
Rachel Divine
04-10-12, 22:57
Were a sex worker to attend though, (well done Rachel :)), what amount of time can they reasonably expect to be allowed to speak ? If it's the open discussion sections only then I know from my own experience that they can expect to be shouted down and the real test is in keeping calm and eloquent in your responses, (if allowed).
Why weren't sex workers consulted before the agenda was written up ?
Dont tink they were interested in having sex workers at the event.
I am going and Amber emailed them as well.
Rachel Divine
04-10-12, 22:59
Not sure if we will be allowed to talk but it is an experience to be there and we will see how it goes.
Thanks Nicole.
Well I didn't get a f*cking invite!!!! Did anyone here get an email invitation? Or is it just buddies of the TORL??:mad:
And why the heck is it a closed conference??? This is supposed to be a time of public debate, not meetings behind closed doors. This stinks!!:angryfire:
However, they have invited people from both sides of the debate. I had feared it would be all dominated by Ruhama and their TORL buddies.
Session 1: The Legislative Approach of Sweden and the Netherlands
First up is a Swede who is going to spew lies about how effective the Swedish model is (at sweeping things under the carpet).
His counter is some guy from the Netherlands. I certainly hopes he does a decent rebuttal.
Session 2: Prostitution Legislation – an NGO Perspective
Then we have our favourites - Sarah Benson of Ruhama and some woman from the Immigrant council. I'm sure we know what to expect from them. The figures of how there are more women trafficked into Ireland than women actually living in Ireland will be quoted no doubt! (or some other bull shit stats that have been made up!). And how the sex industry in Ireland makes more money than the national GDP!!!
Their counters will be Teresa Whitaker of SWAI and Pye Jacobson. I don't know what Teresa Whitaker is like but I certainly hope she makes up for SWAI's apparent silence thus far. For an organisation that is supposed to represent escorts, they have been awfully low key in this whole debate.:(
As for Pye Jacobson, I worship at her feet.:hail: She will expose the Swedish Model for what it is!
Session 3: The Public Health Dimension
This session really worries me. There are three speakers - an odd number. All the other talks have had an even number of pro and con speakers. They are all local "experts" and I fear they may be biased against sex work!! I am upset that they don't have anyone from the WHO. The WHO reports all state that any further criminalization of the sex work industry only leads to an increase in HIV and STD's. And the WHO are the World Experts on Health especially when it comes to disease prevention.
Session 4: The Appropriate Legislative Model for Ireland – an Academic Perspective
I don't know who the heck Tom O'Malley and Kathryn McGarry are? Don't know what their stance is?
Thankfully Eilish Ward is speaking too. She has written some great articles. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1019/1224306074609.html
Session 5: Prostitution Legislation and the Gay Community
There is only one speaker here. Not sure what he is going to say. I had hoped there would be a better gay and TV representation. Because you can't push one law for female escorts, while ignoring male and TV escorts! That would technically be sexual discrimination. And lets be very clear - all these do gooder organisation are only interestd in "protecting women" (from themselves!).
I really hope and pray that common sense will prevail, and that this isn't a fake execrcise for a forgone government decision. Labour already promised that they would support/bring in the Swedish model if they came to power. The Labour women division in particular have come up with more arcane suggestions than even Ruhama!! And as fair as Minister Shatter sounds, he is a Labour party member.
My only hope is that sense will prevail and this will end up being one of the many pre-election promises the Labour government have broken.
This has been posted many times before, but for those who haven't heard of Pye Jacobson, she is well worth listening to!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7nOh57-I8
I am delighted she is coming. I just hope they give her enough time to speak, because she certainly won't be mincing her words about the Swedish model!
Rachel Divine
05-10-12, 00:40
I could stay all day long listening to this woman... Her views are great and her accent brilliant...I could understand every single word... :)
the traveller
05-10-12, 05:51
I would think the last thing they want is a real live sex worker telling them how it is and how misguided all their moralising is.
Can you imagine the scene, Sarah Benson walking around with her fingers making the sign of the cross to ward off the evils,
the nuns clutching their beads praying to their God,
the immigrant council members holding their passports to show they are good Irish gals,
labour women showing their union card to prove they are "real" workers and
don't forget the door on the floor for the dancers at the crossroads
'cause we all live in that perfect world where there is a gal for every guy
and we all live happily ever after.
I wish!!
Fair play to ya Rachel, give it to them as it really is!
I would think the last thing they want is a real live sex worker telling them how it is and how misguided all their moralising is.
Can you imagine the scene, Sarah Benson walking around with her fingers making the sign of the cross to ward off the evils,
the nuns clutching their beads praying to their God,
the immigrant council members holding their passports to show they are good Irish gals,
labour women showing their union card to prove they are "real" workers and
don't forget the door on the floor for the dancers at the crossroads
'cause we all live in that perfect world where there is a gal for every guyand we all live happily ever after.
I wish!!
Fair play to ya Rachel, give it to them as it really is!
we must remain patient mate! :)
Just wondering why there isn't a representative from An Garda Siochana at this? Given that An Garda Siochana are the enforcement limb for the dept of justice and the one's with actual figures.:confused:
In the recent highly publisized North and South joint PSNI and Garda raids on brothels (i.e. the residences of innocent escorts), they didn't find a single trafficked girl!
One wonders why the Dept of Justice didn't ask a spokesperson from the An Garda Siochana to attend and give an accurate account of figures for trafficking and enforced prostitution?:mad:
the traveller
05-10-12, 10:48
Not sure if you saw this, I did post it earlier but I think it got lost in the general section.
http://belfastfeministnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/amnesty-highlight-challenges-with-lord-morrows-prosecution-bill/
Tis Amnesty's answer to Lord Morrow's bill but just as valid here.
So, that's Amnesty and the WHO ( who were dismissed as a pro prostitution lobby group) who have said that criminalisation is a wrong move.The Irish Council for Civil Liberties have refused to join the TORL coalition. But, hey, what do those minor organisations know when compared with the Good Shepherd Sisters.
After all, who has gained more knowledge than them on the subject of the exploitation of underage girls.
Who has profited more from prostitution than Ruhama, over e600,000 last year. And what did they do with that money. Carry out research of their own. No, they relied on the discredited facts of Melissa Farley. What they did do was go round the country spouting their distorted facts to councils, political parties, unions and giving awards to sleaze bag journalists. Were sex workers given the right to reply. No, cause not, why let the facts get in the way of a good campaign. And if there were 91 cases of trafficked ladies last year ( how many were sex workers? ) why were there so few prosecutions?
And, who knows more than the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity about denying basic human rights to all than them. And if they get their way they will carry on doing that into the 21st century.
Let's do what this country has always done, export our problems to another place far away and if that's not possible, well,we'll just bury them in the back yard.
I would think the last thing they want is a real live sex worker telling them how it is and how misguided all their moralising is.
Can you imagine the scene, Sarah Benson walking around with her fingers making the sign of the cross to ward off the evils,
the nuns clutching their beads praying to their God,
the immigrant council members holding their passports to show they are good Irish gals,
labour women showing their union card to prove they are "real" workers and
don't forget the door on the floor for the dancers at the crossroads
'cause we all live in that perfect world where there is a gal for every guy
and we all live happily ever after.
I wish!!
Fair play to ya Rachel, give it to them as it really is!
You're trying to smash my self-esteem, aren't you? Are you saying it's all a LIE, no, please DON'T! :(
Good job Rachel, thanks for taking time and participate. I am aware of you voicing your opinion regarding prostitution in Ireland and situation with new law. :):)
xx
The Equalizer
05-10-12, 22:08
Thanks Nicole.
Well I didn't get a f*cking invite!!!! Did anyone here get an email invitation? Or is it just buddies of the TORL??:mad:
And why the heck is it a closed conference??? This is supposed to be a time of public debate, not meetings behind closed doors. This stinks!!:angryfire:
However, they have invited people from both sides of the debate. I had feared it would be all dominated by Ruhama and their TORL buddies.
Session 1: The Legislative Approach of Sweden and the Netherlands
First up is a Swede who is going to spew lies about how effective the Swedish model is (at sweeping things under the carpet).
His counter is some guy from the Netherlands. I certainly hopes he does a decent rebuttal.
Session 2: Prostitution Legislation – an NGO Perspective
Then we have our favourites - Sarah Benson of Ruhama and some woman from the Immigrant council. I'm sure we know what to expect from them. The figures of how there are more women trafficked into Ireland than women actually living in Ireland will be quoted no doubt! (or some other bull shit stats that have been made up!). And how the sex industry in Ireland makes more money than the national GDP!!!
Their counters will be Teresa Whitaker of SWAI and Pye Jacobson. I don't know what Teresa Whitaker is like but I certainly hope she makes up for SWAI's apparent silence thus far. For an organisation that is supposed to represent escorts, they have been awfully low key in this whole debate.:(
As for Pye Jacobson, I worship at her feet.:hail: She will expose the Swedish Model for what it is!
Session 3: The Public Health Dimension
This session really worries me. There are three speakers - an odd number. All the other talks have had an even number of pro and con speakers. They are all local "experts" and I fear they may be biased against sex work!! I am upset that they don't have anyone from the WHO. The WHO reports all state that any further criminalization of the sex work industry only leads to an increase in HIV and STD's. And the WHO are the World Experts on Health especially when it comes to disease prevention.
Session 4: The Appropriate Legislative Model for Ireland – an Academic Perspective
I don't know who the heck Tom O'Malley and Kathryn McGarry are? Don't know what their stance is?
Thankfully Eilish Ward is speaking too. She has written some great articles. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1019/1224306074609.html
Session 5: Prostitution Legislation and the Gay Community
There is only one speaker here. Not sure what he is going to say. I had hoped there would be a better gay and TV representation. Because you can't push one law for female escorts, while ignoring male and TV escorts! That would technically be sexual discrimination. And lets be very clear - all these do gooder organisation are only interestd in "protecting women" (from themselves!).
I really hope and pray that common sense will prevail, and that this isn't a fake execrcise for a forgone government decision. Labour already promised that they would support/bring in the Swedish model if they came to power. The Labour women division in particular have come up with more arcane suggestions than even Ruhama!! And as fair as Minister Shatter sounds, he is a Labour party member.
My only hope is that sense will prevail and this will end up being one of the many pre-election promises the Labour government have broken.
Fair points Morpheus. In addition, Mr Shatter is F.G.
Professor Tom O'Malley is a Barrister-at-Law and possibly one of the foremost experts in Irish Criminal Law, whose textbooks on criminal procedure and sexual offences I could not live without. I've never saw him discuss prostitution before, though I'd imagine his stance would be relatively liberal.
The Equalizer
05-10-12, 22:38
I pointed out earlier that what is needed is a "Client Representative" as well as an "Escort Representative" to debate logically on behalf of those they respectively represent. Certain organisations are relying on the fact that very few persons (either escorts or clients) are willing to "come forward" to represent their respective sides, and, as a result these organisations are able to put forward arguments that there is really nobody to stand up and question.
Result, the propaganda put forward by these organisations is portraying a very negative image to the vast majority of ordinary, decent people who may have a very limited knowledge of this industry as well and those involved in it (escorts and clients alike).
I have met a number of girls from EI, and I can honestly say that they were the friendliest, happiest people I met since goodness-knows-when who never gave me the impression they were doing anything they didn't want to do. (And I am sure the girls would say the same about the vast majority of the clients).
The benefits of an "Escort Representative" would include:
A woman working in this industry who could demonstrate that she (and numerous others) is/are working independently, having chosen this line of work of her own free will and feeling totally content with her surroundings living a happy and fulfilled life. (A far cry from the enforceably-drug-addicted, beaten-senseless-by-a-pimp negative stereotype that certain organisations are portraying ALL escorts as.)
A major benefit of an Escort Representative would be a woman working in this industry who could confirm to all whom it may concern is that the overwhelming majority of Escort Clients are respectable people.
A major benefit of a "Client Representative" would include:
A man who can demonstrate that not all Escort Clients are trench coat wearing sleazeballs who treat women with utter contempt. The overwhelming majority are ordinary, decent men from all walks of life (from the friendly guy serving you in your local shop, to the police officer keeping the streets as safe as he can [they're only human]) who choose to spend their time with Escorts.
[QUOTE=
Why weren't sex workers consulted before the agenda was written up ?[/QUOTE]
Maybe because closed little minds would have to accept/admit that some (never mind most) ladies aka "sex workers" are independent & actually do it because they want to??? Now please excuse me while i go and wash mouth out with lots and lots of soap :D
What is needed is a 'Client Representative' and an 'Escort Representative', who could logically debate on behalf of those whom they respectively represent.
Point taken Equalizer. There certainly needs to be an Escort representative(s). But as others have pointed out, there are powers that have made sure that this will not happen. Because woe betide an escort working in Ireland that comes forward and sas that she is doing this of her own free will by choice and would like Ruhama and The immigrant council to butt out of her life and business.
But the panel has already been chosen. The closest thing to an escort representative on the list is Pye Jacobson, who was a sex worker herself in Sweden. However, there really should have been an allowance for escorts working in Irleand to have thier voice and platform.
As for client representation, I hate to break this to you, but no one gives a flying f*ck about clients, either from the pro or con sides. To one side we are preverts, rapists, women abusers (and nothing you say or do will change their opinion). And to the other side we are the money. I certainly know my place!
Not sure if you saw this, I did post it earlier but I think it got lost in the general section.
http://belfastfeministnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/amnesty-highlight-challenges-with-lord-morrows-prosecution-bill/
Tis Amnesty's answer to Lord Morrow's bill but just as valid here.
So, that's Amnesty and the WHO ( who were dismissed as a pro prostitution lobby group) who have said that criminalisation is a wrong move.The Irish Council for Civil Liberties have refused to join the TORL coalition. But, hey, what do those minor organisations know when compared with the Good Shepherd Sisters.
After all, who has gained more knowledge than them on the subject of the exploitation of underage girls.
Who has profited more from prostitution than Ruhama, over e600,000 last year. And what did they do with that money. Carry out research of their own. No, they relied on the discredited facts of Melissa Farley. What they did do was go round the country spouting their distorted facts to councils, political parties, unions and giving awards to sleaze bag journalists. Were sex workers given the right to reply. No, cause not, why let the facts get in the way of a good campaign. And if there were 91 cases of trafficked ladies last year ( how many were sex workers? ) why were there so few prosecutions?
And, who knows more than the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity about denying basic human rights to all than them. And if they get their way they will carry on doing that into the 21st century.
Let's do what this country has always done, export our problems to another place far away and if that's not possible, well,we'll just bury them in the back yard.
Well said Traveller. I'm glad Sexwork.ie has been highlighting Ruhama's roots in the Madalene Sisters, inspite of the fact that they have been trying desperately to pretend that they have a different ethos.
This needs to be highlighted more and more in the media. People will see through their lies if they realise they are cut from the same mould as those who forced your women into slave labour and inflicted a lithany of abuse on them, all because they knew what was best for these women! Just like they know what's best now for escorts.
It's a pity Brooke Magnanti wasn't invited, as she has already written her damning opnion on the above crowd.
https://www.escort-ireland.com/boards/threads/100379-Dr-Brooke-Magnanti-writing-on-Ruhama
Rachel Divine
06-10-12, 01:12
Point taken Equalizer. There certainly needs to be an Escort representative(s). But as others have pointed out, there are powers that have made sure that this will not happen. Because woe betide an escort working in Ireland that comes forward and sas that she is doing this of her own free will by choice and would like Ruhama and The immigrant council to butt out of her life and business.
But the panel has already been chosen. The closest thing to an escort representative on the list is Pye Jacobson, who was a sex worker herself in Sweden. However, there really should have been an allowance for escorts working in Irleand to have thier voice and platform.
As for client representation, I hate to break this to you, but no one gives a flying f*ck about clients, either from the pro or con sides. To one side we are preverts, rapists, women abusers (and nothing you say or do will change their opinion). And to the other side we are the money. I certainly know my place!
On my way to bed ,but this post has to be replied. :D
None of the clients pointed out his view and none said anything about his experiences on this ... Of course people will stick to what they believe / suit the agenda until someone speaks and start to show what/why/how he/they goes/go to see an escort.
Good Night.
Point taken Equalizer. There certainly needs to be an Escort representative(s). But as others have pointed out, there are powers that have made sure that this will not happen. Because woe betide an escort working in Ireland that comes forward and sas that she is doing this of her own free will by choice and would like Ruhama and The immigrant council to butt out of her life and business.
But the panel has already been chosen. The closest thing to an escort representative on the list is Pye Jacobson, who was a sex worker herself in Sweden. However, there really should have been an allowance for escorts working in Irleand to have thier voice and platform.
As for client representation, I hate to break this to you, but no one gives a flying f*ck about clients, either from the pro or con sides. To one side we are preverts, rapists, women abusers (and nothing you say or do will change their opinion). And to the other side we are the money. I certainly know my place!
I refuse to accept my place :p Invites were available to a group which I'm associated with, but I don't see any benefit in going and certainly not any use as a speaker. Maybe I'll just sit there and boo the speakers from certain organisations :D
the traveller
06-10-12, 08:12
My Department will hold a conference in the autumn to discuss the document. The
widest possible participation will be encouraged in order that we have an open and
transparent discussion on all aspects of this very important issue.
I lifted the above straight from the discussion document but how can this conference be open and transparent when it's a closed event. We were encouraged to give names, address and they confirmed receipt when we submitted our replies to the document. I would've thought that we might of at least been given some notice that the conference was happening let alone an invitation. We had enough interest to make a submission and for an uneducated person like myself I spent a long time constructing that reply. With more time I would have attended and maybe spoken. I wonder if the media circus will be there as I'm sure that their presence will l make it impossible for the "coal face" people to speak.
I've nothing to lose except my civil rights. I'm single and most of my buddies know I visit beautiful ladies and those that don't, I don't really care, as, what two consenting adults do in private is nobodies business but their own. But to be honest, who wants their face all over The Sunday World just because you told the truth and don't submit to the image they wish to create. As The Equaliser has said,I too " can honestly say that they were the friendliest, happiest people I met since goodness-knows-when who never gave me the impression they were doing anything they didn't want to do. (And I am sure the girls would say the same about the vast majority of the clients)" but that voice will not now be heard. This conference is only for the "ruling" class and the workers and clients, as usual, have been totally disregarded, so much for democracy!!
I lifted the above straight from the discussion document but how can this conference be open and transparent when it's a closed event. We were encouraged to give names, address and they confirmed receipt when we submitted our replies to the document. I would've thought that we might of at least been given some notice that the conference was happening let alone an invitation. We had enough interest to make a submission and for an uneducated person like myself I spent a long time constructing that reply. With more time I would have attended and maybe spoken. I wonder if the media circus will be there as I'm sure that their presence will l make it impossible for the "coal face" people to speak.
I've nothing to lose except my civil rights. I'm single and most of my buddies know I visit beautiful ladies and those that don't, I don't really care, as, what two consenting adults do in private is nobodies business but their own. But to be honest, who wants their face all over The Sunday World just because you told the truth and don't submit to the image they wish to create. As The Equaliser has said,I too " can honestly say that they were the friendliest, happiest people I met since goodness-knows-when who never gave me the impression they were doing anything they didn't want to do. (And I am sure the girls would say the same about the vast majority of the clients)" but that voice will not now be heard. This conference is only for the "ruling" class and the workers and clients, as usual, have been totally disregarded, so much for democracy!!
Good morning
Why not drop them an email and ask for an invitation? :)
I would say to all escorts who want to go
Ask for an invitation.
Bitching about it here aint going to do you much good.
The speakers have been picked and arent changing but you can attend
If you need advice PM me
skywalker85
06-10-12, 14:46
None of the clients pointed out his view and none said anything about his experiences on this
Was that not the point of submissions ?
the traveller
06-10-12, 17:15
Good morning
Why not drop them an email and ask for an invitation? :)
Good evening
With more notice I would've but unfortunately I've something else planned for next weekend which I can't put off.
Rachel Divine
06-10-12, 18:28
Was that not the point of submissions ?
A person is more important than letters ....
is this conference only a 'talking shop' for the public airing of strongly held views from all sides of the argument, with only a few soundbites for the 6 o'clock news?
Or has it a greater significance?
given the slow nature of law making, any changes are years away, in my view. This will be a marathon rather than a sprint.
Perhaps there should be some kind of demonstration prior to the opening of this conference, to give voice to the escorts point of view. It would be terrible if after the conference the public still view them as victims, just a thought
skywalker85
06-10-12, 18:43
A person is more important than letters ....
did you get an invite :flirt: :D
duno if i did or not :(
Some cunt hijacked my hotmail account :D :angryfire:
Rachel Divine
06-10-12, 18:49
did you get an invite :flirt: :D
duno if i did or not :(
Some cunt hijacked my hotmail account :D :angryfire:
I didnt get one, I asked for one and my request was accepted...
You wanna come?
skywalker85
06-10-12, 19:10
I didnt get one, I asked for one and my request was accepted...
You wanna come?
Sure they would hardly listen to me :(
No point going to listen to what they are always saying anyhow.
Rachel Divine
06-10-12, 19:17
Sure they would hardly listen to me :(
No point going to listen to what they are always saying anyhow.
They would listen to anyone.
There is always a point to take from listening babe...
an invitation to attend is not an invitation to speak
The speakers have been decided
There are however several sections devoted to QandA and discussions which you can or can not partake in
Half Man and Half Dildo
06-10-12, 21:32
Hi all,
Firstly, apologies for not posting on the boards sooner than tonight after I'd promised to do so as far back as last Sunday. I wasn't feeling too well the last week or so. Anyway.....
I think it would be a good idea if Rachel brought a letter written on behalf of her fellow escorts and herself which she can personally give to Alan Shatter during the conference. The letter could address half a dozen topics or so which the community here on E-I deem important enough to include and which we feel the minister should be made aware of.
In my opinion the letter should definitely include the suggestion that the Government carry out its own independent report\investigation into sex for sale in Ireland and highlight the fact that all the reports for the last ten years or so have had the Catholic church at their helm.
The letter will carry more weight than words alone would do.
an invitation to attend is not an invitation to speak
The speakers have been decided
There are however several sections devoted to QandA and discussions which you can or can not partake in
The email which I received yesterday stated that the list of speakers is still being finalised.
P.S I sent you a PM enquiring which group you represent
the traveller
07-10-12, 08:41
I think it would be a good idea if Rachel brought a letter written on behalf of her fellow escorts and herself which she can personally give to Alan Shatter during the conference
An excellent idea, if anybody can carry it off( or in ), it's Rachel.
I would also like it pointed out that, in their recent "information gathering exercise" the information gathered was as we see it here, not how Ruhama would like to portray it. After all, in whose interest is it to paint this industry with the biggest and blackest brush they can find. I found the following very enlightening
http://thetraffickingresearchproject.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/sex-work-and-the-london-2012-olympics-how-was-it-for-you/
originally posted by Laura it exposes what happens to these NGO's when their funding is cut and why it's in their interest to shout loudly.
Yes,if bad things can happen they will happen, but they are already illegal and criminalising the clients will not stop that happening. It would not of stopped the Rochdale case or the Oxford one.
And, as Morpheus stated " One wonders why the Dept of Justice didn't ask a spokesperson from the An Garda Siochana to attend and give an accurate account of figures for trafficking and enforced prostitution?" They are the people that know the reality and whether there is a real problem or one that has been created to ensure further funding.
It's about time that the hype was done away with and real facts were laid out for all to see.
Rachel Divine
07-10-12, 09:17
I am off duty tomorrow :) and I will write that letter.
Jack in the Box
07-10-12, 19:14
It will be absolutely great to see people against criminalisation at the conference whether they are escorts, clients or others.
Give Benson and Nusha Yonkova the grilling of their life during the Questions and Answer's session and don't let they away with telling all their lies. Many of us have a good idea what Sarah Benson is like. Nusha Yonkova is another bad piece of work. When asked about the sexual rights of people with disabilities she said that she just deals with the general. She SHOULDN'T generalise. EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT.
That is also a super idea to present a letter to Alan Shatter.
Half Man and Half Dildo
07-10-12, 22:00
I am off duty tomorrow :) and I will write that letter.
Thanks Rachel, I know you probably have plans for the rest of the week but I say take your time, do a rough draft of the letter tomorrow, and work on it bit by bit over the course of the coming week when you have time until it is polished. From my own experience it is almost impossible to write well on a subject without drafting and revising, etc.
Another thing I feel the letter should point out to the minister is the fact that part of Ruhama's submission is based on the work of Dr. Melissa Farley, a woman whose evidence\testimony to the Canadian supreme court was (in the words of the *Judge) problematic
*Interestingly enough, the judge was a woman - Susan Himmel, she was not swayed by the testimony of Farley - and her ruling overturned the laws in Canada.
Maybe you could get a few of the other independent escorts to co-sign it with you too, Rachel?
Fair points Morpheus. In addition, Mr Shatter is F.G.
My bad!! Thanks for pointing that out Equalizer!
I always thought Minister Shatter was Labour! The fact that he is Fine Gael, does give me more hope. Not because he is FG, but because Labour backed the Swedish law motion when they were campaigning for government.
My bad!! Thanks for pointing that out Equalizer!
I always thought Minister Shatter was Labour! The fact that he is Fine Gael, does give me more hope. Not because he is FG, but because Labour backed the Swedish law motion when they were campaigning for government.
Why not be like your hero and go to the meeting? Something like this I predict :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tInbiCG1cI
is this conference only a 'talking shop' for the public airing of strongly held views from all sides of the argument, with only a few soundbites for the 6 o'clock news?
Or has it a greater significance?
given the slow nature of law making, any changes are years away, in my view. This will be a marathon rather than a sprint.
Perhaps there should be some kind of demonstration prior to the opening of this conference, to give voice to the escorts point of view. It would be terrible if after the conference the public still view them as victims, just a thought
I think the conference signals the end of the time for public consultation, although I hope they will allow those who attended to offer feedback to the committee.
The appointed committee then writes up their report with their suggestions and hands it to Minister Shatter. Minister Shatter then makes a decision based on the report, on what his recommendations for change of law will be (if any). He will then submit his suggestions to the Dail and Seanad. I'm not sure what the process is there before legislation can be changed or enacted?
Either way, I'd be very suprised if anything happened before next summer.
P.S. These are the people on the special committee apointment by the minister of justice to review the legislation on prostitution:
Deputies:
Dara Calleary, Michael Creed, Alan Farrell, Anne Ferris (Vice-Chairman), john Paul Phelan, Seán Kenny, Finian McGrath, Jonathan O’Brien and David Stanton (Chairman)
Senators:
Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Martin Conway, Rónán Mullen, Denis O’Donovan, Katherine Zappone.
P.S. These are the people on the special committee apointment by the minister of justice to review the legislation on prostitution:
Deputies:
Dara Calleary, Michael Creed, Alan Farrell, Anne Ferris (Vice-Chairman), john Paul Phelan, Seán Kenny, Finian McGrath, Jonathan O’Brien and David Stanton (Chairman)
Senators:
Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Martin Conway, Rónán Mullen, Denis O’Donovan, Katherine Zappone.
I don't see any friendly names on that list, esp 3 of the senators.. (no 1, 4 and 6)
there is a TD who in a former life collected advertising money from brotels for In Dublin magazine, also one who was widely rumored to have been caught literally with his pants down during a Garda raid 20 years ago
Rachel Divine
08-10-12, 19:51
Please, I need an article,or more if are, on court case/s where an agency was brought to court...
I am working on the letter and I am pointing out about agencies and escorts choosing to work with/for them.
Thank you ...
ps.I know many of you dont agree with agencies and I have no problem to argue their case here as on my experience were great help
Half Man and Half Dildo
08-10-12, 20:29
Please, I need an article,or more if are, on court case/s where an agency was brought to court...
I am working on the letter and I am pointing out about agencies and escorts choosing to work with/for them.
Thank you ...
ps.I know many of you dont agree with agencies and I have no problem to argue their case here as on my experience were great help
Rachel, PM sent.
Jack in the Box
11-10-12, 00:16
As many as possible should go to this conference. Nobody is going to bite you there and you can dress differently than normally if worried. You will not be asked for your real name either. The staff organising it are very approachable. I have details.
Rachel Divine
11-10-12, 16:36
Cant find any articles on trafficking convictions in Republic of Ireland. All I can find is about convictions in other countries even if the traffic was in Ireland ...
Cant find any articles on trafficking convictions in Republic of Ireland. All I can find is about convictions in other countries even if the traffic was in Ireland ...
I don't think there has been any, I would have remembered.
just had a look on the net and they are all coming up for NI and none for the republic
Half Man and Half Dildo
11-10-12, 20:28
Rachel, this article (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/woman-wanted-in-france-in-prostitution-probe-gets-25000-bail-3242546.html) was posted before in case you've overlooked it. It's probably the closest you'll get to what you're looking for at this stage.
In addition to the above, there is a short piece on page 18 in today's issue [11-10-2012] of the Irish Daily Mirror on human trafficking and which I feel would do no harm in being highlighted during the conference.
U.S. IS IMPRESSED
By Cathal McMahon
IRELAND is one of the most advanced countries in the world at tackling human trafficking, a top American officer has revealed. Scott Hatfield is the director of the Human Smuggling and Trafficking Centre - a US Government intelligence centre.
He travelled to Ireland to meet with a number of organisations dealing with the issue. Mr Hatfield said: "Ireland instituted strong laws in 2008 and we are impressed with the methods they have undertaken. We would hope to take some of these best practices back to the United States. Also we would hope that they might learn some of the practices we have adopted."
Here in Mr Hatfield we have the head of an American intelligence agency no less saying the present Irish laws are sufficient (best practices), So why then are Catholic NGO's seeking to introduce laws that will do nothing but target consenting adults and further alienate independent sex workers. Mr. Shatter should be politely reminded during the conference that his job is that of Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence.
Trafficked people are more likely to be working in the kitchen than in the bedroom.
Such people are treated disgracefully
Check this link for a case that disgusted me, of an immigrant who was disgracefully treated
http://www.thejournal.ie/migrant-high-court-580122-Aug2012/
Half Man and Half Dildo
11-10-12, 21:11
Trafficked people are more likely to be working in the kitchen than in the bedroom.
Such people are treated disgracefully
Check this link for a case that disgusted me, of an immigrant who was disgracefully treated
http://www.thejournal.ie/migrant-high-court-580122-Aug2012/
Indeed, and lets not forget the case of the Filipino worker on one of the Irish ferries a few years ago, too.
Who the hell would want to visit a brothel staffed by conned, forced and trafficked women anyway?
How does such a business survive? certainly wouldn't have repeat custom
well it happens a lot in london and these con artists are making big money unfortually not every one has a brain and thinks like that cos if i was a man i would rather give my money to some one who like doing it and all the money is going to them. Its a shame that this happens and it does effect us indie because of the new laws they want to put in place. Yes they should put in place laws against trafficked girls but leave us indies alone. ( in an ideal world).
trafficing victims found in dublin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19902781
Rachel Divine
11-10-12, 23:34
Rachel, this article (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/woman-wanted-in-france-in-prostitution-probe-gets-25000-bail-3242546.html) was posted before in case you've overlooked it. It's probably the closest you'll get to what you're looking for at this stage.
In addition to the above, there is a short piece on page 18 in today's issue [11-10-2012] of the Irish Daily Mirror on human trafficking and which I feel would do no harm in being highlighted during the conference.
Here in Mr Hatfield we have the head of an American intelligence agency no less saying the present Irish laws are sufficient (best practices), So why then are Catholic NGO's seeking to introduce laws that will do nothing but target consenting adults and further alienate independent sex workers. Mr. Shatter should be politely reminded during the conference that his job is that of Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence.
I think an enforcement on traffikers/pimps is the way to go as Ruhama thinks we are all forced into prostitution.
As is it not true , girls will work away.
Thank you for the post, very good one.
Rachel Divine
12-10-12, 15:22
Just had a read on this
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0008/print.html
Any thoughts are welcome.
Definition of "traffick" is not great .. :(
Half Man and Half Dildo
12-10-12, 22:10
Rachel, PM sent.
Rachel Divine
12-10-12, 23:42
Rachel, PM sent.
I did read it. Thank you.
We are allowed to talk/ask questions as on the brochure comes with such time for questions where anyone can talk/ask/answer.
I am preparing the most important / straight to the point things I want to make and I will read them over and over again on my way to the conference ... Joking... :) ... It will be okay but I am nervous tbh...
I did read it. Thank you.
We are allowed to talk/ask questions as on the brochure comes with such time for questions where anyone can talk/ask/answer.
I am preparing the most important / straight to the point things I want to make and I will read them over and over again on my way to the conference ... Joking... :) ... It will be okay but I am nervous tbh...
Jaysus, it's not like shagging someone! I'll be the dirty pervert in the trenchcoat watching you speak :D