“Gay Cake” Guilty Verdict

[EIFII]

Nonsense? Are you seriously calling sexual discrimination..sorry, scratch that....any type of discrimination nonsense?

Ashers are happy to rake in the money at Halloween without giving any thought to their "religious" beliefs but suddenly are holier than thou when it comes to a minority group/community of people that they will not take as much money from.

Religion should not be allowed to be used as an excuse that you can switch on and off as and when it please you.

People are already boycotting and have been for last few months, not just the bakery but also their products which are sold in shops,garages,etc

You cannot say I discriminate indiscriminately simply because I hold a different point of view from you. You embody exactly the attitude that is so dangerous in the current social climate.
Society is all about agreeing peacefully where one persons rights start and another's end.
Would you insist that an escort had to see anyone who calls her simply because he calls? She can rightly discriminate for whatever reason she chooses, be it based on nationality, phone manner or anything. Or a doctor may opt out of performing abortions if it goes against their personal beliefs.
So I don't see why a baker should be obliged to write slogans across cakes with which they disagree. I stand up for their freedom of conscience and will not see it called discrimination.

[Kenton]

Nonsense? Are you seriously calling sexual discrimination..sorry, scratch that....any type of discrimination nonsense?

Ashers are happy to rake in the money at Halloween without giving any thought to their "religious" beliefs but suddenly are holier than thou when it comes to a minority group/community of people that they will not take as much money from.

Religion should not be allowed to be used as an excuse that you can switch on and off as and when it please you.

People are already boycotting and have been for last few months, not just the bakery but also their products which are sold in shops,garages,etc

You can't really use Halloween and same sex relationships as a comparison, true it's historically a pagan festival but it's not expressly forbidden by any of the main religions in N.I. as far as I'm aware (if I'm wrong please correct me, I'm no expert) where as homosexuality is expressly forbidden, it's made quite clear, so if they don't want to make something that promotes it why should they be forced to? We stumble over ourselves to accommodate everybody these days so what happened to freedom of religion and the right to express it?

[dob]

Was it a fairy cake?

Ah well you can't have your cake and eat it.

Go away Clyde, the grown ups are speaking

[Clyde]

Go away Clyde, the grown ups are speaking

Go way ya grumpy bolix. Like.

[Devastator]

they have to pay the legal costs as well. jesus christ, people sometimes its easier to just agree with people rather than getting into an argument and going to court.

I'm not fully upto speed on the legal system but isn't that the way it normally works, that the losing side pay costs?

You cannot say I discriminate indiscriminately simply because I hold a different point of view from you. You embody exactly the attitude that is so dangerous in the current social climate.
Society is all about agreeing peacefully where one persons rights start and another's end.
Would you insist that an escort had to see anyone who calls her simply because he calls? She can rightly discriminate for whatever reason she chooses, be it based on nationality, phone manner or anything. Or a doctor may opt out of performing abortions if it goes against their personal beliefs.
So I don't see why a baker should be obliged to write slogans across cakes with which they disagree. I stand up for their freedom of conscience and will not see it called discrimination.

I did not say that you discriminate because you hold a different point of view, this case is about discrimination. If you somehow feel guilty or yourself feel you are discriminating and trying to hide it, thats upto you.

Please explain how I "embody exactly the attitude that is so dangerous in the current social climate." by wanting equal rights for everyone and not having a completely blinkered view? A lot of people would argue that you have the dangerous attitude and in NI we have seen just how dangerous bigoted attitudes have been in the past. I don't know where you are from/live or your backround but I'm guessing its not NI?!? If I'm correct then count yourself lucky and maybe you would have a more open view on equal rights if you had to grow up and live in this kind of society.

I find it bizarre in all honestly that you bring escorts/clients and doctors into the discussion. You seem to be trying to use personal individual choices and throwing everything into the discrimination category, thats crazy!! I'm pretty certain doctors don't simply "opt out" of performing abortions because its a specialised area. If it was against their personal view then surely they would not train in that area or apply for jobs in that area.

Here is the Cambridge dictionary definition of discrimination, please note that "phone manner or anything" is not mentioned because that is a decision taken based on the individual.

treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:

You can't really use Halloween and same sex relationships as a comparison, true it's historically a pagan festival but it's not expressly forbidden by any of the main religions in N.I. as far as I'm aware (if I'm wrong please correct me, I'm no expert) where as homosexuality is expressly forbidden, it's made quite clear, so if they don't want to make something that promotes it why should they be forced to? We stumble over ourselves to accommodate everybody these days so what happened to freedom of religion and the right to express it?

Well I use Halloween as a comparison based on Ashers defence being based on religious views. As I said I don't see how any true Christian would switch on and off their beliefs as and when it suited them. I don't know what is forbidden or allowed in religion as I am not a religious person but (going back to being force feed religion at school) isn't 1 of the main Christian values of "love thy neighbour"? The way I always took that is not to differentiate between anyone...at least not when you first meet them or don't know them or anything about them.

[willie wacker]

Well while I do not agree with the Cake Shop in question, it is their freedom of right to refuse a customer for what ever reason.
I don,t know why the gay couple did not move on to an other shop I do believe they knew what they were doing by going to that shop in the first place. A lot of wrongs here , so does that mean from now on , if you are refused a service now that you can now sue !!! A big can of worms opened here and the rights of small businesses have been eroded again.
I wonder if it was a muslim shop
1. Would the gay couple have gone there?
2 . Would the authorities have taken this matter to court?

[Devastator]

Just a further point for EIFII bringing other occupations into this discussion.

I have worked for numerous multinational companies in a number of customer based roles, so I have dealt with a huge range os different people with different a wide range of different believes. If I even hinted that I did not want to speak with or deal with a certain section of society, be that based on sexual orientation,nationality,religion, there would have been no questions asked and I would have been straight out the door and in the job queue without reference!

[EIFII]

Devastator
1. No I am not from NI
2. I do not think I would be wide of the mark to describe NI as the home of bigotry and discrimination. So kind of bizarre for you to level that accusation against me.
3. You assert the right of a customer to buy over the right of the business owner to choose not to sell. If the request was for a "happy birthday" slogan they would have no doubt been happy to oblige.
4. You represent an opinion that people cannot act or decline to act in accordance with their personal conscience. I think that is very dangerous, and violates the rights of those individuals.
5. Doctors and escorts were simply used as other examples where people may act in accordance with their own motivations or conscience but be interpreted by someone on the receiving end as discrimination.

[Kenton]

Well while I do not agree with the Cake Shop in question, it is their freedom of right to refuse a customer for what ever reason.
I don,t know why the gay couple did not move on to an other shop I do believe they knew what they were doing by going to that shop in the first place. A lot of wrongs here , so does that mean from now on , if you are refused a service now that you can now sue !!! A big can of worms opened here and the rights of small businesses have been eroded again.
I wonder if it was a muslim shop
1. Would the gay couple have gone there?
2 . Would the authorities have taken this matter to court?

Yeah I wreckon if it was a Muslim shop this wouldn't have gone near court, it would be accepted but Christianity is always good for a pasting!

You're right Devastator, it is love thy neighbour but all of us know what a devicive issue homosexuality is. Some of us are religious and accept it and others can't due to their beliefs, unfortunately we will never be a truly tolerant society, we're imperfect as a species but a situation like this won't make others more open minded it will just drive the two sides further apart, adangerous precedent has been set

[EIFII]

Yeah I wreckon if it was a Muslim shop this wouldn't have gone near court, it would be accepted but Christianity is always good for a pasting!

You're right Devastator, it is love thy neighbour but all of us know what a devicive issue homosexuality is. Some of us are religious and accept it and others can't due to their beliefs, unfortunately we will never be a truly tolerant society, we're imperfect as a species but a situation like this won't make others more open minded it will just drive the two sides further apart, adangerous precedent has been set

Yes it is "love thy neighbour" but nor should one be a stumbling block for another. It was not "loving" for a customer to seek to oblige the baker to sell that cake. And yet the baker is expected to be loving in reply? I see double standards here, as has been said, a dangerous precedent.