Conclusion of Meeting with Minister

[talkabout]

Many politicans in this country are former teachers and will ofren adopt an attitude asif they are speaking to a class of naugty 4 ŕ year olds when dealing with the public(esp. if they feel superior to those people or sense they have no real power)There are no votes for Fitzgerald or any other Irish politician in supporting sex workers and if they did they would have the moral majority brigade on thier heads.Indeed I would expect Fitzgerald's private views will be the same as her public views(she is rather elderly and her views will have been formed in an Ireland very different from the present.In other words she is conservative,a lot of Irish society is still deeply conservative, escorting will never e legalised in this country in the foreseeable future and the safety and other concerns of escorts themselves will be given scant attention.The Irish attitude is often to sweep things under the carpet and if any consideration is given to the business it is to see all clients as some form of abuser and to see all escorts as "fallen/forced" women needing to be rescued/rehabilitated.

[nibb]

The only way to get any where on this issue is to find a politica a judge and a pillar of society who vist escorts and then we might get some where as they would do anything to keep it quite

[talkabout]

But conting on from my post above it is impt. that the public and politicans see that sex workers will have various opinions and many maybe most will be against his law .So congratulations for your efforts.Well done.B.t.w. it would probably be more effective to have current or retired escorts express their views on tv nif they felt able to reveal their identities(I have seen this once or twice on Irish Tv)It would probably be more effective than dealing with politicians behind closed doors. mn

[gameboy]

Fitzgerald shows her hand immediately with the facile comment that you ''can't buy girls.'' Too right Frances. You also can't ''buy'' hairdressers, painters or chiropractors, but you can buy their agreed services over a set period of time. The nonsense of ''buying'' someone is straight out of the TORL handbook. As is the emotive reference to ''girls''. So no woman or man is a sex worker -- just girls.

And of course making sex work 'normative' is the kiss of death for any society. Just look at Germany, Netherlands or New Zealand where 'normative' sex work has presumably destroyed the nation. Meanwhile a proud history of censorship and sexual dictatorship from successive theocratic govts, accompanied by endless cover-ups of child rape and sexual abuse has made Ireland into the world leading powerhouse it is today.

It's interesting that Catriona didn't mention trafficking in her OP. I think the public assumed that this was the main driver of criminalisation. Did Frances push this agenda during the meeting or was it more about her personal distaste for sex work?

Excellent.So well put.Catholic Ireland still survives

[JoesphHenry]

I would like to add that Germany nor Holland are not ideal models and are peddling back on reforms in the recent year. They want mandatory registeration for sex workers in Germany like as though we are cattle and raise the minimum age of entry to 21. Brothels can be raided and closed to the authorities beckoning, because they don't fare not regulated under business law but criminal law. I know German sex workers who preferred the old system because of how the authorities are breathing down your neck. I have friends who were sex workers and when checking their driver license they could find on the computer that they were sex workers and purposely outed them to the passengers on the car.

Sex Workers in Germany and Holland have fought for years against mandatory registeration and health checl as though we are disgusting creatures full of disease and to be stamped. This job is stigmatising enough without being treated like that.

The Germans like to register everything, if possible. It's the German worldview. For latest developments in German look at: http://researchprojectgermany.wordpress.com/

Anyway, well done.

[ocred]

Some of you are aware that yesterday I went with a couple of other girls to see Minister Frances Fitzgerald, unfortunately she wasn't interested in listening to our concerns. She thinks it's more important to send a message that you "can't buy girls" rather than to give us safe working conditions as making it difficult to work will prevent people from joining the industry. She didn't want to make sex buying "norminative".

She wanted to make sure people had access to services and doesn't want the new law to prevent that from happening. I tried to push the New Zealand model which has seen reduced demand and also creates a safer working environment.

Generally she was rather patronising of our opinions and wasn't going to budge on the issue as you know sex workers lives are something worth throwing under the bus to send some empty message.

Regrettably, I am not surprised by her stance but her almost immediate dismissive attitude towards you is quite shocking. It's clear she's 'on message' as they say. Fair play to you for your efforts.

[dob]

Disappointing to here that the minister wasn't much interested in what the sex worker representatives had to say. At least Alan shatter, for all his faults, was at least willing to listen.
It is clear that our minister has bought into the "prostitution is violence" and "prostitution is a form of inequality" doctrine devised by the swedish school of feminism.
The only solution is for sex workers to kick up an unholy stink, something that is unlikely to happen given the shadowy natural of the business .

[Meursault]

Disappointing to here that the minister wasn't much interested in what the sex worker representatives had to say. At least Alan shatter, for all his faults, was at least willing to listen.
It is clear that our minister has bought into the "prostitution is violence" and "prostitution is a form of inequality" doctrine devised by the swedish school of feminism.
The only solution is for sex workers to kick up an unholy stink, something that is unlikely to happen given the shadowy natural of the business .

in fairness its not really a feminist doctrine. Ask 100 women who are not involved in prostitution: Are you Pro Prostitution or Against Prostitution? The majority will side on against. The swedish model is just a means to an end. It is the method by which they minimize it further

[The Libertarian]

Her attitude is hardly a surprise! And when a sex worker is seriously injured or as happened in Sweden killed as a consequence of this madness, she and her TORLER buddies will be nowhere to be found to be questioned on why it was allowed to happen!

[Rachel Divine]

Well done to all involved.

xxx