Thread: Should Queen Elizabeth be invited to Ireland?

Originally Posted by Mousey

RT

Should the British Queen be invited to come to Ireland to visit?

Would she want to come???

Personally I can't say I'm particularly bothered either way if she makes a visit. I'd watch it in passing on the telly, but I wouldn't line the streets to have a look, so hey ho. As Gerry Adams said some years back, "It's a free country. Mrs. Windsor can go wherever she likes."

As for the protocol thing - isn't it etiquette to bow to any member of royalty, no matter where in the world they come from? I'm not talking about the ninety-degree-horizontal fawning and scraping thing, but that modern way of inclining the head and shoulders forward. If you were introduced to the King of Belgium, or the Queen of Holland, or even the King of Swaziland, would you not respect the office even if you cannot respect the man?

As for the famine thing - the great empires in the history of the world didn't get where they were by being nice. They did it by killing anyone who got in their way. I'm not saying that excuses British policy in Ireland during the years of the Famine, but would you ask the Italians to publicly apologise for the Roman Empire's near-eradication of Celtic culture in France, or the mass slaughter of Britain's druids in Anglesey? Do you want the Mongols to beg forgiveness for the massacre of millions of people across Europe in the Middle Ages? And even though the Western powers made the Germans bow and scrape after WWII, nobody gives the Japanese a hard time for their conduct during the same war. I think that British policy in Ireland during the Famine was a product of its time. We should remember, but Queen Elizabeth being held to account over what her ancestor's government did to us 150 years ago makes as much sense now as young German people being made to feel guilty over the Holocaust, or young white Americans being made to feel guilty over slavery. If it is felt that such a gesture by the British is necessary, then let it be made, but I wouldn't made it a pre-requisite of any visit by her.

Originally Posted by Mousey

RT

Should the British Queen be invited to come to Ireland to visit?

This question should be asked in reference to ANY head of state coming for a visit. Being from NYC, and currently living in Amsterdam, I simply hate it when heads of state visit. For one thing forget about traveling anywhere, the crowds, the traffic, and the hyped up security makes an already congested city at rush hour even more impossible maneuver. Let's be honest Dublin is already congested enough as it is. Add to that mix the great love the Irish have for the English, I personally can't see whey she would even want to visit?

Originally Posted by Forrest

I'm sorry you feel that way QPH. I agree the United Kingdom and their monarchists have created havoc around the globe for centuries. I have read several books about the famine and other historical events that the Brits have been responsible for but we need to be more mature in our attitude and show that we, as a Nation, will always be better people than they will ever be.

Neither the British monarchy nor the Imperial Government caused the potato blight. There were many factors which caused the famine or contributed to its's severity. This was'nt the only famine to ever affect Ireland and there were famines in other parts of Europe also. The response of the Westminster Government was tardy, but given the laissez faire policies of the administration and the standards of the time, the response would probably have been the same to a famine in Scotland, Wales, Cornwall etc. You have to remember that the Victorian philosophy was that God helps those who help themselves and people are responsible for their own misfortunes, and everybody is assigned their position in life. These were conservative times and those who were in charge were averse to anything that could be seen as rocking the boat.

The Queen does visit Ireland on an infrequent basis already........she is the Head of State of a part of if..........whether you like it or not, that's a fact.

When the Queen goes on state visits abroad, she is well received..............even in former colonies like the USA and in countries that fought bloody wars against Britain in the recent past such as Germany. If we want to portray ourselves as a backward looking people who are content to make ourselves prisoners of our past, that's fine, but I don't see how any rational person could blame the present monarch, the present UK government or those living in the UK today for things that happened 160 or 95 years ago.

Originally Posted by Mousey

Personally I can't say I'm particularly bothered either way if she makes a visit. I'd watch it in passing on the telly, but I wouldn't line the streets to have a look, so hey ho. As Gerry Adams said some years back, "It's a free country. Mrs. Windsor can go wherever she likes."

As for the protocol thing - isn't it etiquette to bow to any member of royalty, no matter where in the world they come from? I'm not talking about the ninety-degree-horizontal fawning and scraping thing, but that modern way of inclining the head and shoulders forward. If you were introduced to the King of Belgium, or the Queen of Holland, or even the King of Swaziland, would you not respect the office even if you cannot respect the man?

As for the famine thing - the great empires in the history of the world didn't get where they were by being nice. They did it by killing anyone who got in their way. I'm not saying that excuses British policy in Ireland during the years of the Famine, but would you ask the Italians to publicly apologise for the Roman Empire's near-eradication of Celtic culture in France, or the mass slaughter of Britain's druids in Anglesey? Do you want the Mongols to beg forgiveness for the massacre of millions of people across Europe in the Middle Ages? And even though the Western powers made the Germans bow and scrape after WWII, nobody gives the Japanese a hard time for their conduct during the same war. I think that British policy in Ireland during the Famine was a product of its time. We should remember, but Queen Elizabeth being held to account over what her ancestor's government did to us 150 years ago makes as much sense now as young German people being made to feel guilty over the Holocaust, or young white Americans being made to feel guilty over slavery. If it is felt that such a gesture by the British is necessary, then let it be made, but I wouldn't made it a pre-requisite of any visit by her.

Very well said Mousey

Originally Posted by carlos marvado

Neither the British monarchy nor the Imperial Government caused the potato blight. There were many factors which caused the famine or contributed to its's severity. This was'nt the only famine to ever affect Ireland and there were famines in other parts of Europe also. The response of the Westminster Government was tardy, but given the laissez faire policies of the administration and the standards of the time, the response would probably have been the same to a famine in Scotland, Wales, Cornwall etc. You have to remember that the Victorian philosophy was that God helps those who help themselves and people are responsible for their own misfortunes, and everybody is assigned their position in life. These were conservative times and those who were in charge were averse to anything that could be seen as rocking the boat.

The Queen does visit Ireland on an infrequent basis already........she is the Head of State of a part of if..........whether you like it or not, that's a fact.

When the Queen goes on state visits abroad, she is well received..............even in former colonies like the USA and in countries that fought bloody wars against Britain in the recent past such as Germany. If we want to portray ourselves as a backward looking people who are content to make ourselves prisoners of our past, that's fine, but I don't see how any rational person could blame the present monarch, the present UK government or those living in the UK today for things that happened 160 or 95 years ago.

You don't need to explain all that to me Carlos. I have said that it's time we, as a Nation moved on, and leave the past alone. What took place is recorded in various history books, and the people responsible, and who know what really happened, are long dead. You should talk to QPH about it.

Originally Posted by carlos marvado

When the Queen goes on state visits abroad, she is well received..............even in former colonies like the USA and in countries that fought bloody wars against Britain in the recent past such as Germany. If we want to portray ourselves as a backward looking people who are content to make ourselves prisoners of our past, that's fine, but I don't see how any rational person could blame the present monarch, the present UK government or those living in the UK today for things that happened 160 or 95 years ago.

Given enough time and alcohol, anything is justifiable. Also, remember in terms of history; the US being a young country has a relatively short memory; 50 years ago to us was a LONG time ago. Contrast that with Europe/UK 160 years ago is quite recent. I have had discussions with Irish gentlemen and they regale me with stories about family emigrating 200-300 years ago; as if it were only yesterday they upped sticks and left the island.

This question is redundant, McAleese underwent an official two-day visit to London from 28 February 2010. Therefore its inevitable that the visit will be reciprocated @ some point, & R.O.I will have to pick up the security bill!


Andrew

Originally Posted by Waterford Masseur

This question is redundant, McAleese underwent an official two-day visit to London from 28 February 2010. Therefore its inevitable that the visit will be reciprocated @ some point, & R.O.I will have to pick up the security bill!


Andrew

Redundent just because she went there? ahh sorry but we did not starve half of the UK to either death or to the four corners of the world, if we did I would also expect our President to say sorry to the people of the UK before going there...

Small difference...

Originally Posted by Forrest

You don't need to explain all that to me Carlos. I have said that it's time we, as a Nation moved on, and leave the past alone. What took place is recorded in various history books, and the people responsible, and who know what really happened, are long dead. You should talk to QPH about it.

And I have already said that I agree we should move on but to do that requires an apology from the head of state. If she does that I would show her around the gaff myself if she wants...

I like the UK or rather to be exact I like ordinary people from the UK, its the horay henrys I cannot stand. It was good to the Irish in many ways but the principle of an apology before she sets foot here is very important.

Yes they are long dead, so were the slaves that the UK formally made an apology to, that also should have been made by the queen as the ships that carried them to new world were flying the Union Jack. To say it does not matter because they are all dead and cannot be held to book is invalid. It still happened and it is not in dispute that the policies of the UK goverment (of which the King or Queen of the day they serve) was the main cause why the failure of a single crop was caused such a catastrophe and the near non existent response ensured it was made worse. Yes they are all dead, but its not that long ago. I knew someone who in turn knew someone that was a child during the famine, both admittedly of great age but the fact remains I spoke with someone who knew a person alive during that.

Many landowners back then saw it as a way to rid themselves of the "Irish problem" anyone recall a similar term from the 20th century?...

If the same thing happened today it would be called ethnic cleansing. Do not let the sands of time blow a dune over the truth nor erode the facts...

its not much to expect a sorry for its part before the head of the Monarchy visits the scene of the crime of its past deeds... The German leader of the day says sorry practically ever single year for its actions. The UK head of state seems incapable of doing so for the UK'S own little holocaust committed in the name of serving king/QUEEN and country...